Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Confused about detaching!!!

Angela,
I wouldn't put too much stock in "acts of service" being his primary LL. My wife put that down too while still in her EA. It's because they want you to focus on the day to day stuff, while the OP fills their needs for affection, touch, admiration etc. They don't want those things from you, the LBS. This is classic cake eating. Sounds like he is keeping you at arms length while he figures out if it will work with someone else. I'd bet that if you two were in a good marriage again, his primary LL would go right back to physical touch!

CP -

Thank you for your advice! He does seem very skeptical so I’ll try your suggestions. I need to work on being consistent, for sure.

When I’m doing things to be nice to him, he always questions my motives…maybe consistency will help that, too.

Accuray -

This makes SO much sense:
“This is a very common thing for a WAS to do. They are conflicted and confused about what they want, sometimes they're scared about the steps they are taking and are afraid you might decide to pull the rug out from under them and leave yourself.”

H bounces back and forth between seeming very sure and confident in his decisions (and acting like I can just go screw off) and then, being very insecure and wanting to know where I’ve been and what I’m up to and saying nice things to me.

Good advice on being “unphased” by his actions/reactions either way. It is so hard!!!

And, I need to work on not being seen as his adversary, no matter what he’s doing or saying. Good advice!

HS –
How did you handle this with your spouse? My husband is still denying an “affair”…and while all my evidence is circumstantial, I’m pretty sure there’s someone else he’s at least confiding in, if not more.

Did you keep doing Acts of Service….or just detach and work on you? I don’t want to ignore what he thinks he needs/wants completely….especially since he’s still at home and is sometime interested in working on “us”…..but I am trying to find a balance between that and me getting on with my own life right now, too.


VENTING - I hate feeling like this!!!!!! And it is SO freakin’ unfair!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!
Ok. I’m better. Lol.

Thanks, y’all!

_____________________________________________________

Today’s update - I really messed up yesterday. He has a second (pay-as-you go) cell phone because when I first found out about the EA last October (2012), I looked up his cell phone records because he was lying about the OW…claimed that the text I saw was the first (turns out it was over 2000+ texts to her in a 2 week period).

I haven’t looked at them since last November, and won’t because I don’t want to be that upset anymore! I NOW know that snooping will only hurt me and change nothing with him, except to make things worse. However, due to my crossing that line, he feels like he has to have another phone.

Anyway, he is on his second phone, texting, ALL of the time…and it gets annoying. We were at our son’s football game and he was on his other phone the whole time and I made a comment about that. Also, when I do have to text him about the kids…all I ever get in return is “K”…..no matter what I text him.

He writes way longer texts to everyone else….so I also brought this up. It stinks that his work buddies he’s know a year or less (and whoever else) get long, fun messages from him while I get “K”….

Anyway, it didn’t go very well and he’s still kinda mad at me today. I feel like I “undid” all my progress to this point by bringing up something that upsets me, but that is kinda stupid! I wish I was better at just letting stuff like that go.

Then, I worried about it all this morning. Argh!

Nothing I say is going to make him stop using the other phone, etc. and I know this so why do I fret and get all anxious about it?

My heart is doing summersaults today just because I am making myself all anxious about things that I have no control over.

Hi Angela,

Yes it is very unfair, but it is what it is. You have to find a way to accept where you guys are right now, and make it work for you. You do this by staying off the H crazy train!

Make any changes you can, to be happy with your new life. Live for you and be yourself. Your new self. Don't waiver. Let him figure himself out. This will take PLENTY of time, so relax and enjoy the ride.

I've been doing the stay connected/give space dance with W for over a year and a half now. If she engages with me, great, I'm there for her. If she's cool and distant, I find my own stuff to do. Seems to be working for us.

You don't want to leave him feeling ignored, (why would he want you if you don't care or you act done?) and you don't want to smother him. (He won't like you chasing him... he's done, remember?) Dance On!

My W does the exact same thing with the texting. It drives me crazy. What I can tell you is that your H will continue to behave this way regardless of what you do. He is completely insensitive to how it makes you feel.

This is emotionally abusive behavior that will wear you down over time. Personally, if I had to do it over again, i would just simply tell my W how rude and inappropriate the behavior is and have walked away whenever she does it. Maybe somebody can chime in with how to set an appropriate boundary.

My H was the same - although he never bothered with a 2nd phone. The phone bill comes to him online and I can't access it without a password so I could never snoop. I always knew when it was OW he was texting as he would turn his phone and hold it closer so that no one else could see and it was the also the only time he wouldn’t comment on who he was texting. He’s even sat at the table in a restaurant with our son and me and texted back and forth to OW.

It really annoyed me as well that his friends get longer texts and faster responses than I did, but I've finally learned not to let it bug me too much. Actually it's a lot easier now we're separated, and the funny thing is that since our separation stopped being just a trial, his texting around me and to me has improved considerably. The last couple of times I've been out with him, he's been much better about not texting back and forth to friends (including OW) and his texts to me have been more than one or two words in length.

Here's a big thing: when you mess up, don't beat yourself up over it. You can't change it. Learn from it and continue to keep moving forward.

-PM

9/9/13

Update:
I’m still on moderation so not sure when this post will show up…the other post from today, I actually wrote on Friday. I gave my H space all Friday and Saturday and then, on Sunday, he actually wanted to spend time with me. Yay!

We had a good afternoon before he left for a poker game at his friend’s house (to which I was smiling and telling him to have fun...a total 180 for me). Now just not to overdo it with the contact on my side of things. I fall back into “old” routines…and that isn’t good! So, I've been keeping myself too busy today to want to text or call him.


FY

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You totally made sense with everything you said…and I can see you really get what I’m talking about on the “Dance”! Lol. I need a sign that says, "Dance On!"

I know some spouses don’t want any contact…but mine does, just on his terms…so your advice helps. And it helps to know that you’ve been at this awhile, and you’re doing okay with it.


RockJC

Yeah, I’d like to know if anyone else has suggestions on boundaries for the “other” phone and texting excessively when I’m around, etc. It does take a mental toll because it’s hard to just ignore it. I definitely need to work on ignoring it, though. But, it is one of the BIGGEST pet peeves I have with him right now. It is completely rude and hateful, especially when he KNOWS I hate it.

NQ

I know (in my mind) that when I don’t comment to him about the other phone and the excessive texting around me, then he gets better and doesn’t do it quite as much and his mood is better….but my heart just gets so ticked off that he’s doing that instead of spending time with our kids or me and it’s hard for me not to react negatively.

And, the whole “K” thing is just so rude! But, I agree, I gotta get over it and just ignore it. I need to be more positive….and I think I need to do better at NO EXPECTATIONS. If he texts me a “K”…well, at least he responded. If I get more than a “K”, then I’ll be happy, too. I am so much more at peace when I let go of those darn expectations!

Thank you all!!! Happy Monday!
Ang R

This is new info to me -- have you posted a history on your sitch? The first post I saw from you is questions about detaching.

So your H had an EA and last October you caught him lying to you by viewing his phone records, and he said that you crossed the line? Then he went and got a second prepaid cell phone?



Do you know who he's texting with? Will he let you read the texts on the second phone if you ask to?

It sounds to me like he's still in an EA, either with the same woman or with someone new. What do you think? It's very important from my perspective to know if there is an active OP.



I think your proximity to this situation and the treatment you are getting has you looking at this backwards. It's not okay for your H to have a second cell phone that he hides from you, it's not okay for him to be investing intimacy with third parties and nothing with you. You are not doing wrong by challenging that behavior.



Here's the thing, the majority of the time if your spouse is actively engaged in an EA or a PA, you have NO CHANCE to improve your relationship with them. Your mere presence triggers shame and guilt because they know what they are doing is wrong.

They don't like feeling shame and guilt, so they will blame you for making them feel that way, then invent reasons for why you drove them to do what they did. All of that happens without you doing or saying anything, so you're starting from a huge deficit.

If you then do typical LBS behaviors of begging/pleading/shaming/pursuing, you exacerbate what they are feeling, make everything worse, and drive the wedge even deeper!

Your actions don't get the desired response, so you try harder and redouble your efforts, and that makes it worse, and a downward spiral starts feeding itself.

The best prescription (if this were possible), would be to say "have fun with that", turn your back on it completely, and then be a confident, attractive, happy person!

Why? Because when they try to blame you for "making" them feel a certain way, or making them take certain actions, none of your actions would support that. They'd be facing a very obvious inconsistency, and would question what they are doing much sooner.

Secondly, they think they know you inside and out, can predict exactly what you will do or say, and for that reason, assume that things with you can't be any better than they have been.

If you start acting differently, and do things they don't predict, it shakes their foundation and makes them feel like they're no longer in control of the situation, and once again that makes them think and reconsider sooner than they would otherwise.

The biggest challenge that any LBS faces is (1) impatience, because we want results *now* and (2) the pummeling our self esteem takes in this situation, leading us to feel not good enough, guilty, and "less than".

Michelle's prescriptions for "Act As If", GAL, and 180 are all designed to make you appear to be the person I've described above, even though you're not feeling it. The strategy here is that if you lead by doing, your feelings will follow.

You are right that you can't control him, what he does, or change anything about your R while an OW is involved. It is simply a waiting game. During that waiting game, your job is to (1) not make things worse, (2) take care of yourself physically and emotionally the best that you can, and (3) set reasonable boundaries to prevent yourself from getting hurt further.

One reasonable boundary is that H not text other people in your presence. If he decides to start texting while in your presence, you will leave wherever you happen to be, because you will not be disrespected. You're not telling him what to do -- he can do whatever he wants, but if he starts texting other people in front of you, YOU will leave.

The LBS often fears that this will upset the WAS and make things worse, but the opposite is actually true. People like boundaries, structure, and rules, because they then know what to expect. They will also respect you for standing up for yourself, and that makes you more attractive.

Patience and strength Angela, if he's involved with OW you could have a long wait in front of you.

I love PMs post here. I just do. Being real among all of this is important.

9/9/13

dbmod - I agree...PMs suggestions are excellent...now I just need to do the work to put them into practice!

Accuray (this is long! Sorry!)

Before I knew how to do this posting stuff, I had posted my sitch under “Newcomer with MLC Husband” at this link:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...254#Post2376254

Sorry about the confusion. I am now staying on this thread because it's getting more traffic.

So, yes, last October, I came home one day, earlier than expected. H sleeps days, works nights, so I would often check his phone during the day, when it went off, to see if it was work (important enough to wake him) or not important (let him sleep). That day I found a text from an ex high school GF that said, “Da** it. Good thing I didn’t come over there.”

I came home early from a run that day so my guess is that he invited her over or they, at the very least, pretended and flirted about her coming over. He told me, and still tells me, that it was nothing. He doesn’t get the whole EA thing at all. Claims they were just friends, etc.

So, I confronted the girl. We texted over a 2-3 day period, in which she claimed nothing had happened. When I told her that phone records showed 2000+ texts over a 2 week period, she kept apologizing and saying that she wanted me and my H to leave her out of it. That she was going through a divorce herself and that she wanted my H to stop contacting her. He claims that she won’t text or call him anymore. BUT, who knows if he’s lying. He probably is. Seems that’s the way these things go.

On the second phone, looking back, there hasn’t been a time when I’ve asked to see a message that he hasn’t shown me. It’s usually work buddies. Sometimes, he just voluntarily says, “hey, look at what so and so sent me”…But, he deletes all messages right away so there’s nothing stored on his second phone, and it’s locked. Also, if cheating spouses are smart, “she” could be saved under a guy’s name.

My question to him is that if there’s nothing to hide then why the second phone and why is it locked? He says it’s just to spite me because he’s tired of how nosey I am. (Which, by the way, I haven’t been in a long, long, long time…even before I started DBing, I'd stopped the snooping)

“I think your proximity to this situation and the treatment you are getting has you looking at this backwards. It's not okay for your H to have a second cell phone that he hides from you, it's not okay for him to be investing intimacy with third parties and nothing with you. You are not doing wrong by challenging that behavior.”

I can see this. You’re right…but how do I set boundaries without just completely ticking him off? Does it matter if he gets ticked off? When we talk about that kind of stuff he tells me I’m just being the “old” me and that nothing ever changes. Sometimes, we can calmly discuss this stuff, but most times, he just gets really defensive and angry.

“The best prescription (if this were possible), would be to say "have fun with that", turn your back on it completely, and then be a confident, attractive, happy person!”

I know this is what I should be doing…and have been about 75% of the time. The rest of the time, I’m so hurt and mad that I can’t focus on anything else.

The thing is, he probably is having an EA…but I have no actual proof of that. So, do I just live as if he’s not, and carry on as if he isn’t cheating until/if the EA comes to light?

We talked about this tonight. He said that he was not having any affairs, that it wasn’t part of “his deal” and that he remembers his vows, despite our problems. But, when I reminded him that EA’s are affairs, too, he rolled his eyes and he knows this and he’s not having “any” affairs and to stop bringing up the ex GF.


“If you start acting differently, and do things they don't predict, it shakes their foundation and makes them feel like they're no longer in control of the situation, and once again that makes them think and reconsider sooner than they would otherwise.”

I do feel like a lot of it right now is about CONTROL. He keeps another phone, won’t wear his ring, etc. because he tells me he’s tired of me telling him what do to. I do need to do something to help him see that I won’t always be around if he’s going to continue to treat me like that, but, I've mentioned before that I struggle with the balance of it because he's still at home. He's still acting married in a lot of ways. We have really good days and then, really bad ones.

Just today I was thinking about how I am tired of not feeling “good enough”…I’m a good mom, I’m good at my job, I have family and friends who love me…and yet, this one man, this one person makes me feel like nothing sometimes.

Although, tonight he said that he does see me trying to change and that I’m a good wife. I just want to bang my head on the wall with all the mood swings coming out of him!

Anyway, today was another rollercoaster ride so my emotions are all over the place. Luckily, I held it all inside until H went to work so we had a pretty good evening before he left.

After he left, I went outside, sat on the porch steps...had a good cry and then, talked to God for a bit.

He sent me a joke text with a picture that said, “I just can’t be friends with sensitive @$$ people because I joke around too much.” He sent it with a smiley and a note that he feels this way with me sometimes. That he’s trying to be funny or joke and I take it seriously and get upset, when he’s just messing around. He asked me to stop “over thinking” everything.

That’s a huge part of my problem…I want answers and I want everything fixed *now* and that just isn’t going to happen. Trying to be patient and just enjoy the day to day.
Anyway, I’m tired and stressed. I skipped my workout this evening…and it’s too late to do it now…so I need to get some sleep.

THANK YOU for your insight and good suggestions! I truly appreciate it.