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WR,
I think if I were in this situation, I would have to ask my h to be understanding and give your son some breathing room. That he's very upset w/the way things are right now and he needs space to figure things out for himself. That pretty much sums up the situation and it lets your h know that he needs to back off a bit.

I wouldn't go into any more details than necessary as your h may just get bent out of shape and say all kinds of crazy things to your son and that wouldn't be helpful to him to try to mend the fence w/his son.

Thank you Snodderly. He runs so hot and cold with S14 that I think it's part of the problem. I don't know what the answer is but if he contacts me I'll say something along those lines and see where it goes.

I had to tell S14 about thanksgiving. H told S18 and, I guess, assumes S14 will follow suit no need to talk to him about it. Ugggggg these MLCers!

So it's been another few days of crazy train with H.

He messaged me Thursday afternoon wanting to take the boys out Saturday afternoon after his work. I told him S18 only had plans for his bike but that I wasn't with S14 to ask him (knowing he probably wouldn't want to). He said he'd call him and he did Friday am as I'm leaving to go to work. S14 said he didn't want to go and I said it was fine either way. He got on the phone and I could hear S shutting down and then he handed me the phone saying he had to go. H was confused as to why I had the phone and I explained S was in a fragile state and if he pushed that he would push him away. He said he had tried texting, and I lost it inside, and said NO texting does not count. I explained the boys go through periods of anger and depression and that right now S14 was in a funk and that when he left he must have understood that this was probably going to happen. He nmade a comment about not needing to be lectured by me and I said bye .

Today h planned on picking up S18 but S14 stayed home. Wanted to know if he could pick up his tools. I said I needed the basic ones for repairs and wanted the ladder. The ladder pissed him off. I said it fits in the storage room and reaches the roof line and I actually need it. Back and forth between tools and furniture and I said if he wants to take stuff in the house we're splitting the tools and he needs to bring back what he took. I offered him bedroom furniture but he didn't want it got mad I was only offering what I didn't want and I said you're only asking for the best stuff. I said I'm maintaining our boys home and he made a comment that I had the house and I responded and you left. Wants the point? He then said one recliner was worth all the tools, after I told him tools were expensive and that I would not be paying him out anything, so I said take one recliner and leave all the tools. Eventually, we agreed he'd take his tools and leave the furniture. Came home from work and S14 wanted to know why his dad is trying to take everything and I told him not to worry the stuff inside was staying. He seemed relieved
Then it started allll over again.

He wants to get together to allow me to choose my tools. I

I asked why are we doing this again? I said leave me the tools I need for around the house and I'm trusting you won't screw me around we've done this conversation all day already.

He said he's not doing anything

I said. Good. Take your tools, leave me the ones I need and it's done

He responded. I still want my stero, speakers,and you can have the TVs but that he wouldn't mind one of the TVs

I said no the speakers are screwed into the walls and fit the house. We're not doing this you chose tools and promised to leave the stuff in the house. S14 asked me if we were going to lose stuff and I said that you and I had figured it out

He responded with maybe a couple of coffee tables (couple?? We have one!) and the ottoman with a leather recliner Then he said undecided you have had 6 months to deal and now it's time to move forward

I said if you need furniture go to the Sally Anne. I'm buying tools for S18 for Christmas as he's already asked me because I told him to leave H alone about the tools. Then I said it all stays in the house until the divorce is final and signed so if he wanted to wait I'm good

His response was this stuff has nothing to do with the divorce dafe You really don't understand how this goes

I responded. Sure does. You want tools I gave you your tools it was all good thee hours ago I assured the boys it was fine and now you're changing your mind again This is great for them! If we can't figure it out it goes through mediation and then everything stays here until it's done.

Him. Mediation?

Me. Everything was settled three hours ago Yes, if we can't figure it out mediation does it. We did it this afternoon and now you're changing it again

Him. If that's what you prefer

Me. I literally just told S14 the stuff in the house stays

H. You are dragging it out

Me. You are. It was settled

H. Think it's a game. It's not

Me. You're changing it now . We'll that makes you the one dragging it out

H. Nope. Told you I wanted the house dealt with you laughed.

Me. Oh this is no game. The house is being dealt with. Just nothing fast enough for you but you do not call he timeline. You are not here. You literally go to work and whatever else you want no one calls on on your time so once again (referring to my comment to that affect during the 40 min conversation last week) I don't comment on your time so please don't comment on mine. You do want what you need to to be happy but I'm watching for the boys emotional state.

H ummmm really?

M. Really Why are you messaging me again about stuff we've already figured out? Why are you not engaging S18?

H I am. We are all talking I just wanted to let you know.

Me. Good go be whit them and leave sh1t that's done as done and we can move forward

H. And really last time I was out with S18 your friend messages him the entire time to figure out you're middle name cause that was not planned

Now I'm shocked. I have NO IDEA what he's talking about.
Me. What the he77' are you talking about? Who?

H. I'm sure you don't

Me. You think what you need to but I have no idea what you're talk I g about. I didint even know anyone had messaged S18

H what is your plan? (He asked me this exact same question during our 40 min phone conversation two weels ago)

Me I'm eating dinner with S14 and according to me this has all been dealt with so we can move forward If you want to ignore S18 and redo everything you can do it on your own.

H. Ya. Not what is happening but sure

Me. Ok. We'll start again


He's crazy, crazy, crazy. Or am I?

In terms of the furniture, if he paid for them or part of them, then he is entitled to it. You can't tell him that none of it leaves just to appease your son. I know it's hard, but you have to start compromising somewhere.

I do not think compromise is in the MLC dictionary. Don't know the law in your state, but my lawyer advised me that the second hand value of even very nice furniture is very low (unless you have heirlooms) My xh wavered between wanting nothing to do with any of his possessions, which he put in writing, to wanting me to pay ludicrous amounts to him for them.

Remember Snodderly and her xh and the plastic egg? We are not talking reason, consistency or fairness here. If it is MLC, which is sounds like, he will likely want something different tomorrow.

My xh has already made two attempts to revisit our original divorce settlement, concluded in January 2011, despite the Judge telling us both that without exceptional circumstances, this was the final settlement and could not be revisited.

The best you can do is not get sucked into it, and ask him for a list of what he wants as a basis for negotiation. The chances are he will lose interest in the game when it ceases to be 'fun' for him. For some reason they want to engage (think 'strokes', in Transactional Analysis terms) even if it is to wrangle. Disengage from the dance as soon as you spot it coming. It isn't even a zero sum game, but a lose/lose one.

Thank you for your input Mr Bond. We had come to an agreement that he wanted all his tools, minus a few basic ones I could keep to maintain the house, and in exchange he wasn't going to touch furniture in the house. I offered him the bedroom suite, him saying he needs a place to sleep, but no he wants the best of it all. I offered him one of the couches as well. He doesnf want it.

Beatrice, you are correct......full on still angry at me after 6 months.....mlc

He is all over the place and seems to think I'm "talking" to someone as it doesn't sound like me......ummmm, is that because I have told you I'm not stopping the divorce? I, personally, think he's confused by my new attitude and how where before I would say "sure, no problem" now it's more two way. He also keeps asking. Me what my plans are, my sister told me H is starting to ask BIL how he is. They call it "fishing" as he hasn't really spoke to him since he left.

WR,
They are all just plain nuts. My advice is have your h present your lawyer w/a list of items he wants from the home and then review said list. I wasn't divorced when my xh pulled similar behavior on me. When he was demanding stuff from the residence, I asked for a list. Well, long story short, the list included a plastic Easter Egg, my set of keys to his truck and his baby pictures. I wanted to pack them up and mail them to him, but my lawyer advised me to allow one home visit and after that...kaput. Well, he came w/two deputies to collect said items and then stated he would send a list to his lawyer and that's when I advised him, not once, but twice, that if he didn't select what he wanted that day, there would be no negotiating. Bottom line...those little items were all he took. I had given him a small TV when he found his first place to live, but all of the furniture is still here and I have all of his tools except the toolbox I gave him early on in the marriage. Now, that's not to say that after the divorce and 3 years later, that he hasn't begun to ask for things from my home...but I always remind him to review his divorce decree.

Bottom line, he's going to ask for things that he knows mean something to you and the boys. If he is thinking the way that I think he's thinking...if you agree to give him stuff, he'll change his mind over and over again. It's that little angry boy inside wanting to snatch all of the good things that you enjoy. Change your tactic and insist on a list. Let's see what he comes up with. Also, please understand, you can't rationalize w/him and the agreement you made...it means nothing to him and he'll continue to bug you about things. Get agreements in writing and signatures/dates on them.

As for the way you are speaking to him, it's a 180 for you and he doesn't understand how you can change up on him. He also thinks you may have someone new in your life and yes, he's fishing. He's a paranoid individual who is a very lost and confused man/child. He wants every excuse to vilify you because he thinks you are the one that is making him feel miserable. Not!

No more exchanges w/him about material items until he provides you a list and it comes through your lawyer.

Been reading the thread. I have a friend who went through this. Her solution was to put the things she wanted on the same list as things he didn't want, and made another list of the things he truly values coupled with things she really didn't care about. It made it difficult for her stbex to demand things that he knew would hurt her or he knew she really loved.

These were then given to the attorney's and they handled it. This way it can be not be such a bone of contention.

Thank you Snodderly and Ambivalent.
Thankfully, I haven't heard from him today although I saw he messaged S14 but he did not respond. Not sure if S18 talked to him today.

S18 came from dinner and made a comment that H mentioned he was sleeping on a cot and his sister, where they were having dinner, offered him a can opener. S also mentioned that H messaged me all night. I apologized and explained that his dad was trying to change his mind from a few hours earlier and that I had told H to spend time with his son and sister and to leave the existing decisions alone. I also asked S who was the friend that had messaged him asking about my middle name. S why? Me your dad was not happy about it and got upset with me. S are you kidding? Me. No. S it was so and so (h knows her well too) I said to S I had no idea she had asked you even.

Snodderly, I think he's actually getting crazier. Is this normal? More and more paranoid. I finally have said that I'm giving him his divorce, happy he had found a place for himself, but he just spins more and more out of control.

I also think H is VERY ANGRY that my life has "not changed" and that I'm still in the house. He blames me for his crappy life and is uber jealous mine isn't changing at all....in his opinion.

Is this a normal behaviour?