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Nero,

Sorry for the late condolences and for your loss.

It is hard, isn't it? Funerals have been my GAL so to speak this year. So much so that I know exactly what I don't want at my own funeral - and NO carnations of any colour!

Purging is usually tough. Because of the memories attached to different objects (although I am not sure about phone bills from the 1980s - no cell phones carried by everyone yet!) but I betcha those outfits bring back memories. I am truly grateful that hair at least changes styles - I was a child of the 80s. But purging can be restful, too. When we cleaned my grandmother's house after she passed, it was like a treasure hunt - nothing valuable but I remember being so chuffed to see all the big hats and the pictures of her and my grandfather on a beach in Hawaii. My Grams in a bikini!

Cleaning my parent's house was much the same.

Take your time. And if it doesn't fit now, it isn't likely to in the near future. Or so I have been told.

be good to yourself, Nero and take care.

hey hi everyone and thanks for the fellow-feeling condolences & notes.

it's wierd for sure- people dying & leaving one's "universe" forever. sad, but i guess honestly- it's something that comes to us all- i'm trying to incorporate the idea & fact of death into my life- i think it's practical and our culture really doesn't have a place for it in our daily existence.

imho.

we just fear it- hate it- fight it- rail against it- etc. well, that's me anyway - well, WAS me anyway-

TIL LAST FEW YEARS- i'm working on it- accepting it like everything else we don't like in life that is JUST THERE (MLC ANYONE???)

i find myself thinking lately that perhaps every single thing i've thought in life about the important people in my life and my r with them (and my life so far in fact ) - might just be alot of my own pma. perhaps i've manufactured it all - in response to what i needed or wanted it to be.

of course- i'm open to the possibility that that is all anyone's life is - what they perceive it to be. i hope so. i'd hate like heck to find out im' nuts so late in the game.

this business of my important r's in life being all in peices allover the floor here - h, mother, sister - IT's not too pleasant to feel like garbage to those you thought mattered most. much as i don't "accept" their assessment of me- i do feel rather like garbage. i don't get how that works- but it does. you begin to question your own self - & worth & so on...

i know, it's a bad road to go down- i'm trying not to- but....

it's a wierd one - thinking that THE most important people you thought you "had" in life are not feeling likewise about you. i'm stuck a bit here - (any wisdome appreciated) about the fact that when people are angry, frustrated, whatever (mlc) they want to looook for alllll the bad about someone else (uh hem - me) and tear them down & destroy them (rather than (as i always thought &) try and look at their good and make an allowance for their bad ).

i used to be good at it - forever. NOW - i find myself unable to understand ENOUGH to put any kind of good face on the fact that these few people i believed cared about me- made a choice to find the worst kinds of things to say- that make you feel like total crap person- and then say them- to my face- to achieve - well, WHAT? make themselves feel good by cutting me to shreds? how does that work again? why would anyone WANT to knowingly make another human being feel like less than nothing. of course, why in particular me? i've "lived to please/serve" pretty much. i know- that sounds soooo doormatish i shudder myself. i thought it was being "nice" and sharing my fortunate-ness in life- to help if i could.

why would anyone even say the words and to someone else- "you're horrible person- daughter" - how do you tell someone you "hate them, everyone hates them? " or their life is "nothing" - they don't count - they "have to" (anything?)

just a few of the gems from my mom, sis & her h. on one hand- i consider the source and anger issues & inarticulate nature of these guys-

on the other hand (AND HERE'S MY PROBLEM) - THEY are people with brains. it was their choice to say what they did- to choose those words to hurt & seek to destroy - wtf???

i didn't tell my sis the 1st time her h really ripped my head off - sneak attack in hospital cafeteria. i thought she'd be shattered to think he would say say awful stuff to me. BOY - DO I LIVE IN dreamworld or what?

she sat next to him without a word when he did it just last week or so- not even a moderating word- she agrees. i am "horrible & awful" to them both.

WHAT gives these people the right to dispense pain to someone else? (btw- he doesn't even know me!!! he was mad because he was inconvenienced. my mother's illness taking up too much of his valuable time. ) that one thing. no kidding- one more hour at her house, instead of me putting in that hour at his demand.

my sister- "hates"me because i didn't answer her texts (which i didn't know was there because i do not use a cell phone - except when i drive alone far away). no kidding... she was inconvenienced because she had wanted immediate info... nothing more nor less

who are these people? on one hand as i say it to you- i see, demanding selfish people who want what they want.

it helps - but not totally. i still sit here wondering down to the roots of my hair if i've been "on the wrong road" in life totally- if every r i HAD was just something in my mind- no basis in fact or reality.

oh well- as i am saying this- i realize what a giant jackA$$ i sound like- wah wah wah- why does everyone hate me.

i guess i cannot make people think or feel what they do not- OR i cannot make them act humanely if they are the kind of people who lose their temper and kill the opponent.

idk what i do with this information or these people in my life who are like this. how did i never know it or how exaggerated it all is with them. it was never directed at me- or something i saw really. it's difficult to incorporate into my life/mentality. i feel too old to begin to revamp my entire approach to life and people - i always liked who i was and how i was.

maybe that's it huh? stop letting others try and tell me who and what to be? (at this late stage of the fame) grow a pair? i am trying that honestly- & have been since mlc - thinking it's not so hot to alwasy defer or be soo moderate. i am a peace lovin person tho. i don't see me embracing this "war" mentality.

perhaps in life that sends a wrong message- no challenge? idk- it's alot of goop isn't it? i don't like fighting- i don't mind standing up for myself more and giving it a whirl- i don't even WANT to begin to go around having fights all the time.

it's soooooo icky & awful. i do not want it in my life and have no intention of "going there" with any of these jerks again - EVER.

HOW THE HECK TO MAKE THAT SO?/???

OH WELL- sorry for rant or quandry or whine-fest - and thanks for listening.

i keep swearing never again- but honestly i do not ever seem to "see it coming". i pick up the phone all "helloooo- and ka bam. some jerk on the other end is ready to kill me.

i am not exaggerating either- it's ery wierd. i get it mom's illness is bringing out the worst in everyone- particularly the time i think we all need to hang together & support each other-

not so much other people.

life in the land of the insane here-

xxoo thank you and drive thru please. i'm gonna go weed- in the garden we all know who the enemy is rite???









soooo-

Hello, my friend.

I so understand what you are feeling. You know, you and I are similar in a lot of ways.

I grew up being told I was nothing, I was worthless, less than.

I married a man who I allowed to make me feel that way, too.

When you hear it enough times, you start to believe it.

But slowly, over time and with a lot of work, I have learned it is not true.

They were my mirrors for a long time and I saw what they saw reflected back.

But I got new mirrors, Nero. I looked for people who saw me and accepted me for who I am.

I try to notice how people responded to me. I started to look inward.

And you know what, those old mirrors were wrong.

I tried to analyze what they did what they did. And I saw that they were truly broken - my mom and my h. And that by doing that to me, they were reflecting how they felt about themselves.

And I think that allows them to get through life. I also realized that I dont have to understand it completely.

I just have to know that what they said is not true.

And it isnt. I like me. I like who I am and what I stand for. I like that I want to help people and that I am kind.

And if there are people who dont like me, well, thats their problem.

They dont need to be in my life it I bother them that much.

Dont change who you are because of other people, Nero. You give them the power then. I know they are your family, but, that doesnt give them the right to treat you poorly.

You are an amazing woman. You be you. Dont ever feel that you are wrong in the way you see things. Those are your feelings and so they are valid.

We should just do the best we can in life. Be true to ourselves.

Dont change who you are on the inside, my friend. I see such beauty in there.

hey hi and thanks -

you know- i like your mirror thing. it's true- i began to allow them to "show me" what i was, based on what they thought or what they wanted to find that was bad bad bad.

i have thought about this befgore- and i cannot believe i even "buy into it" - BUT intellectually we may not- in our gut tho, the doubt begins to creep around in there. COULD i really be such a rotten skunk? one has to wonder.

i am first guy to admit we all want to tell ourselves what we'd like to hear- me too. human nature. when my sister was teling me what a "nice guy" her husband was- all i could think is "nice guys do not DO THAT to other human beings". nevermind even who or what i am to him or in his life- i'mjust another human being here.

i guess you may be rite about what they think of themselves. i don't even know about how that works - maybe i'm done caring how they got "broke" - I find my self trying to apply the "you didn't break them - you can't fix them" thing to everyone around me. my mom alot too. she's damaged, i'm sorry about it- am i going to swallow abuse happily - i don't think so.

- regardless of what my thoughts are about me- we're all adults making decisions in life. regardless of allllll our lives and youtyh and "how we got here" - question is, now how do we go forward? i'm done making excuses abut it all - for them - their bad behavior. for my failures to be more "skeptical" or wise or less of a doormat- i'm heading forward with my eyes open.

like you- truly- i think i'm an okay human being (maybe in past i've been too trusting or romantic or deluded) - so okay- onward & upward.

i feel like you do- i'm glad to hear it from you too- it's sad isn't it? what people do to others so they can feel better about them???? the blame thing- it's soooooo crappy in life & soooo dopey... oh well- sad sad world out there.

me- buddy just called and said come over - she and another bud are doing some crafts- maybe i'll go have that glass of wine (even tho it's early and i should be doing allll the other things i thought i would today- but didn't_ )

and resolve to do better tomorrow. ta da - thank you man- it's a funny thing to be thinking about this kind of thing now when i'm so old- i've been lucky in life so far i guess to not be confronted with it soooooo detrimentally so far- oh well

life is wierd - and then it gets stranger. eeeek

off to get that wine and to shut up about my mother & family. i really need to-

the constant calls are driving me up the wall- i'll get lost and out of reach. yay.....runnnnn

xxoo and thanks

I always knew I was a good person, but for a long time, because of those mirrors, I never felt good enough, worthy.

I know that, without a single doubt, the reason my mother and my xh said and did what they did was because of their own low self worth. I didnt see that at the time, of course. And at the end of the day, I allowed them to make me feel that way. Tough to fight when you think you're nothing.

But they projected onto me their feelings about themselves. I am not sure how that comes to be because I am not them, thank God. But somewhere along the way, they learned to feel that way and so that is what they knew. That is what they learned. From the faulty mirrors in their early lives.

I get what you are saying about how does it make them feel better to be that way to people they supposedly love and that is the best explanation I can come up with. And that by putting someone else down, it somehow rises them up. They feel "better" than that person.

Honestly, it doesnt matter why so much. What matters is that they are no longer my mirrors. And you are right, cant fix them, so no need to try.

You have every right to be treated with respect, Nero. Every person does. And it is perfectly ok not to swallow abuse. No matter who it's from.

You are also right, regardless of it all, how do you move forward? The first part you have already started. Acknowledging that it is their problem, not yours. And they have to own it or not. Either way, you get to decide for you, how you are going to act, who you are going to be, regardless of their actions or in spite of them.

I have been too trusting, too accepting, too much of a people pleaser. But there is something lovely about having some of that, ya know? In moderation, in a healthy way.

It is sad, what people can do to others. Especially people who you assume should love you. I dont get it. And I cant wrap my mind around, how people can hurt others. I mean to me, it seems so simple to just be kind. But that is hard for some. Not my problem, though. I continue to be me. They can like me or not. Their choice. Just as it is my choice to be true to myself.

I have had to learn to adjust a bit. Change a bit. But it is for me that I have.

I so hope you went over to your friends house. Sounds like fun. And wine, is good anytime. LOL!

Time for that other stuff another day, my friend. Life is for living. All that other stuff, just not important.

And yes, you can try to do better tomorrow. If you dont, no worries. It will all still be there.

Thats one of the reasons why i have purged so much. Who wants to worry about stuff. Not me. I have other things I want to do.

And stop saying you're old. You are not. And yes, you have been lucky if you havent had to be confronted with it all. You know what, you just do the best you can.

Gosh, do I hear ya. Life IS WEIRD. Let's make that a bumper sticker.

You know, I've spent a lot of time around negative people too. Married a very damaged, negative guy. Heard how I WAS Crazy, unrealistic, lazy, yadda, yadda... And, the more I learn about myself and have some distance from our marriage, the more I see how much of H's own insecurities and troubles were projected onto me. I allowed it. I believed it. Thought I deserved it because I had let him down in some way--all the ways he told I had let HIM down. I'm not believing that now. I know I'm not perfect and I made my share of mistakes in our marriage...but, I'm beginning to see that the biggest mistake I made was buying into this idea I was not enough.

If you look at your reflection in a swampy, mucky pond, you will see a swampy, mucky reflection. If you look at your reflection in crystal clear water, the reflection is crystal clear.

I've been looking at myself through someone else's muck for a long a time and didn't like what I saw. Now, that I'm working myself free of the muck, I'm sad, not for myself so much, but sad my H doesn't seem to love himself enough to break free of it too.

Life is a lot nicer in the crystal clear water. Honest, pure, free of ick.

Heather

Nero, I have been reading your situation, and wondering what to say. You seem to me to be a person who really engages with life. I see it here on the boards - you reach out, and come alongside others.

Your sister and her husband are mean spirited people who PROJECT all their negative qualities onto you to get rid of them.

Our MLC partners are doing the same thing - I would almost say that the nastier the MLCer is to us, the more troubled they are. And that isn't just words, but deeds.

Anyway, i think you are life affirming and fun. You are going through a very very hard time and will be understandably dislocated emotionally. Do not let the trolls ambush you - they will try to do that and bring you down to their miserable level. We can eventually feel compassion for someone as mean-spirited as they are, but for now, know that you are a really really good and unusual person. Imho these boards would be poorer without your posts.

Nero,

I Love what Beatrice wrote and she is soooooooooo right! You are such a blessing to this forum. You pour out your heart with each and every post. Your compassion comes through each time you add your thoughts and feelings.

I can't count how many times you have posted on my thread when I desperately needed a friend. You are valued here.

Your family seems full of toxicity right now. I know avoiding them completely is probably not in the cards considering your current situation. Just don't lose yourself. You're a tough cookie, whether you believe it or not. And, you will come through this intact and better than ever. Sadly, they may never change.

Don't stop being you because of their sickness, sadness and troubles.

Much Love,

Heather

hey hi and wow -

ur, lois, bea - you guys cannot believe how nice it is to hear from you and such wonderful - kind of self-affirming stuff.

i wonder how i "come across" - was hearing ole wayne dyer in middle of last nite - rolling around- trying to sleep with his new "spiel" about (it's "in" at mom4nt - but not bad) how we have to put inside ourselves and our subconscious all the good stuff we'd like to be in our live- to come to our life- and we will attract it - it just becomes part of us- you know, the positive we'd like.

well- then i got thinking about how everyone around me seems to be all totally spilling over with poison - (tho, now that i'm saying this "out loud" to you guys- i thought of the bad things going on in each of their lives -

so, anyway- i WAS GOING to say that i got thinking perhaps , due to h's mlc and my misery about it all - my "fog" last couple yearx- maybe he was rite and i was attracting what i was oozing.

HOWEVER, JUST NOW it occurred to me- h has been watching and interacting & "taking care" of his dying father & aunt - both passed away in last five months or so- (tho he swears it doesn't affect him - one wonders) (of course- in addition to face he's a lying cheating rat - tra la la) BUT --

mom is pissed and mad and frustrated that she's old, going to die someday- not ready- mad to have no real strength or control over things, etc etc etc - lash out city (what else is new with her. been angry since 1969 when my dad died and she was left with fivekids to raise- etc.

my sister is freaking to the max over idea mom will die someday- like, i know it's hard, but either get your butt here and participate - or don't tell me when you're sad and she's gone- or you know, allllll that stuff.

I GET IT that they've got stuff going on also that may make them lash out & blame whoever is closest (like mwd says).

i hate that it's never just one thing or the other thing-

there's always alllllll the background and reasons and legit (maybe) stuff that is taking it's toll here.

you guys make me feel good about me. i always think there are people who are my friends and enjoy my company & seek it out- why do i need to be looking for companionship from those who apparently are sick as hell of my voice &* me. i'm askin ya???

i got thinking about my (maybe) assumptions or expectations in life about people - people i cared about and assumed they cared back. of my mother once saying i "cared too much"???!!! It hurt my feelings quite a bit at the time. i mean, felt it was like saying hey, i do not feel about you like you apparently do about me- do get lost> or grow up or something...

once my h said it too (glomming onto her coat tails probably to hurt my feelings) idk why people get a charge out of feeling superior of they can hurt someone else they want to be inferior-

i never did feel inferior- maybe it pisses them all off that i just don't totally lay down and buy their assessment.

i have to admit it chips away a bit (the mom stuff for 20 yrs) and then, ka bam, stuff is going wrong allover the place and it seems everyone is additing to the pile of negative crappola.

you all have halped me quite alot today- i'm working on brainwashing myself and putting alllll the good junk back into me- that used to be there, i always assumed it would be- i need to reclaim old happygirl self - and get rid of dumpfest girl. as soon as humanly possible.

it is , as usual, amazing to me how much a small kind gesture can mean - can change your day- your outlook - your life almost - just the fact of kindness out there and people spreading it around. like a smile huh? changes someone's face 100% - it's magic - (white magic of course).

so - this girl going forward today- hoping to be changing my own pma by alot- (it's easier when i haven't actually seen any of the dreary pusses- but have spoken to neice #1 - and neice #4 and both were pleasant and uplifting exchanges.

i need to remind self to keep getting in touch with the positive people - and don't let those r fall by the wayside becaue i'm soooo immersed in this bad stuff.

i truly do feel badly for my mom and nazi sis- but don't see really how to help them. honestly they don't even know it about themselves or see it- nazisis even (yesterday) said something sooooooooo exactly what my mother used to say to other sis when she was little and they've had a terrible war going for 30 yrs or so- it's awful-

anyway- i was telling her i did some math on the hourly rates of possible "aides" for my mom- and she was saying "just write it down and i''ll look at it later - when i've got more time"

in bed last nite- i had to laugh out loud (tho it's really very sad) realizing that was THE THING my mother said we all laugh about now- she'd say "write it down, i'll read it later". what an awful thing to say to a chatty little tiny toddler who was exuberatnt and wanted to talk, etc. it was creepy- that poor sister just came along at a wrong time and then was a teenager at the very moment in time my mother was descimated by father's death- not very pretty for her...

anyway- couldja die??? we alllll go around saying we don't want to be negative and awful like mom- and TA DA...

(she's got good qualities- don't get me wrong- but sadly (in her old age) the face she gives her children is the bad one- she cannot seem to actually be nice or supportive or even pleasant- it's "our job" to listen and absorb the dump - sad sad woman) huh??

READ IT AND WEEP girlie (nazisis). i hope to God i can manage to keep a clear head about self as i age and not become negative and complaining and all about me either. fingers crossed.

SOOOOO - a giant thanks to you very special people - i often wonder what a whining jerk i sound like- or if i sound all pompous and full of big fat opinions- who the heck can be totally objective. sometimes i mean to be kind or commiserate i think- then wonder if i'm being all bossy or whatever.. ya know?

you're kind to say im valued here. i feel like you all are my "buddies" in life- it's important as hell to me. i can be lousy i know at keeping tabs on everyone- i'm a hit and run kind of poster- always someone or something nipping at my heels making me get off and go tend to whatever it is.....

have a wonderful days all of you- you've made a difference in my life today- thank you all for your generousity of spirit

xxoo

i forgot to say- it's true, the looking at self reflection in a murky pond. what a way better visual of my usual - if you want to find good you do- if you want to find bad - you do.

how i ever could have been buying into it- who knows? maybe it just begins in such a small way- it overcomes you and you're accepting it in such small increments we're not even aware - at all even. AND THEN one day - pow, you realize you've changed in response to it all- or your heart has - or your self-image- and you're feeling mighty like a giant losey - and why???? wtf???

soooo many people out there- soooo , what? unhappy- messed up, whatever. they never manage to just keep it contained , do they. they want to spread the misery around i guess

i'm thinking if we can "see" it, we can work on it- we can avoid it- we can manage it- we can wade thru it, we can overcome it-

we can do it - rite???

feelin in very good company now indeed - here . and seeing light out there at the end of my own "journey" - don't know about anyone else around me, but i'm still afloat (i'm pretty sure)

need to bundle up the fifty thousand lbs of branches i just cut off - and finish topping the gazillion (it seem) rose of sharon trees before they drop more seeds and i have a million more. i love them when they bloom - but geeeez - the seedlings!!!\
thanks girls..