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2 years doesn't sound like much on paper. Living it is another story. I am just hoping to make it through the month. It takes more than patience to put up with a WAS for 2 years.

Not really, because the older you are the more you feel the clock ticking. At 30 you could give up a couple of years and still easily meet someone, marry and have 40+ years together. Me? Every year that goes by is greatly shortening the time I have left to spend with someone else. I feel that standing for years at 50+ is a much greater sacrifice than for someone in their 20's or 30's.

Today was an awesome morning over all. I had a great counselor meeting, and in prayer last night, it all came smashing down on me why I've been at odds at time with W.

I'm not going to take the time to list out all the reasons, but I've truly been insecure as to whether W "truly" loved me, so I have always sort of hedged my bets. Pushed her to prove it; held back on committing my heart. I don't know where the insecurity comes from, honestly. Maybe that's next.

However, it's INCREDIBLY powerful to have self-realization like that. I believe there must be a concrete change of heart and mind otherwise you're doomed to repeat the same mistakes; and for me, this realization is exactly that. Even up to this point, being committed to my marriage was in my heart; now it's resolved in my head..

W called me about the kids coming over, and we had a good talk. I slipped about my counselor, but I think she was actually impressed that I had taken the initiative.

So, W called me about some kid stuff, and I told her about a dream I had that was funny about her, and it kinda moved into R talk a little, but it was constructive and investigative. She started to go negative a couple times, and I was able to gently guide her back to keep it factual, and the emotional/opinion stuff out of it. I validated many of her opinions. I then simply said, "Hey we can have a war of words - we both say we've changed a lot, but it's just words. You simply won't allow any actions to go along with the words to see if they mean anything or not." She said her "heart had been shredded and she didn't know if she was tough enough to keep repeating stuff over and over again". I thought that was a pretty vulnerable statement to make instead of the normal "we're done, I'm moving on, our marriage is over, I'm not working on things, I'm not interested in fixing things with you" - you know the drill.

She is moving into a new apartment, and I had promised her a birthday present long ago. I offered it, and she said she didn't want to be a "gold-digger", but I said I wanted to keep my word. (I really meant that, and she knows that's who I am, not trying to buy love).

I told her that I had sort of ruined that birthday, and I wanted to make it right. This is a 180 for me - I'm notoriously bad about birthdays, or buying bad birthday presents. She told me what she wanted (a mixer) and I ordered it. It was weird because she called/texted me about 5 times changing her mind, saying "don't get it for me", then "fine", then "no, I'm not working on things with you", then "fine". I told her that the present wasn't a bribe, but simply me making something right that I messed up badly a few months back. I told her she could make some of her "world-famous pumpkin cookies" for me in return, and she agreed.

We had been texting a lot, and I told her to just call me - I hate texting, you lose so much, and it's easy to hide behind. I don't mind "pick up the milk" but otherwise, just call. She called me, called back several times, and then she had to go to the doctor's office, so she asked me to continue texting her.

Not good exchanges today at all from a going dark standpoint, but I think the 180 was worth it. If I look back just a week, she wouldn't speak to me on the phone at all, and would barely text; so a huge difference in just a week to have several phone calls with some from her! I'm certainly not expecting her to jump in my arms, but to go from barely speaking at all to talking a lot is not too shabby, even if not all of it is positive!

Again, she hadn't answered a phone call from me, even on business in close to two weeks, but I called tonight to leave a voice mail about the shipment being delayed, and she answered, and was very nice - when, recently, I've been greeted with cussing, etc.

I failed a few times in there, but it's steadily getting better, smoother. I'm much calmer and more in control of statements. I'm leaving out R talk more. I'm speaking with validation, and refusing to get sucked into anger.

I do know the gift had a big impact on her, and she said to bring it over to her when it came in. So now I'm going to take advantage of a good feeling and go PITCH BLACK until it comes in, and just let the good feelings soak. I sometimes think half this battle is leaving the WAS in a good place, and then quitting while you're ahead to fight another day!

I have failed to mention before that I have a LOT of people praying for me. I want to give credit where credit is due. I believe the methods describe here can work, depending on the situation, but sometimes God gives a little extra boost! W exhibits all of the classic signs/symptoms that are listed here, but her changes seem to be accelerating on a much faster pace than I normally see here. I'm not going to allow small improvements to turn into giddy unrealistic hopes, but I am going to note them.

She and I had talked about "going dark" (I didn't use that term). She was in agreement with me that right now we're so at odds the communication is exhausting. I'll be honest: to have your W agree with you rather than just "going dark" on your own seems like a better thing to me. From my viewpoint, and in my situation, W seemed relieved that I was choosing to give her space and let her think, and was thankful for my consideration. Maybe not everyone is in my situation, though.

I did have one interesting exchange. Some background: during some of the bigger arguments during our separation, we have at times forbidden our kids to see the other person. It's childish, selfish, and ridiculous; I'm particularly ashamed of this behavior for both of us.

I found out W had talked to D13 and told her she and S11 were welcome to come to her new apartment any time they wanted; was very nice to them, and I told W that I thought it was a great idea. I apologized to her for the times I had said anything about forbidding them to see her because I was angry at her, and told her that I wanted them to have a good relationship so if we ever reconciled, there wouldn't be any ugliness between them.

Of course, the last two weeks, W would have RANTED that we weren't getting back together, etc, but she simply responded that was the reason she bought full-size beds instead of twins - for sleepovers and stuff. I said, "Cool", and left it.

I'm learning quickly and sometimes painfully when there is a positive interaction, to just end that conversation right on that spot if at all possible. It seems like every time I do, the next interaction is slightly easier and more positive. Obviously, just because W didn't attack me for talking about reconciliation doesn't mean anything's changed - but I'd rather be standing still than taking 2 steps backward!

John. When a wife asks for 'space' to 'think', it is code for 'freedom to sleep with other men'. She is pleasant with you now because you have TOLD her that she can have the freedom to sleep with other men, and that you can always reconcile later. That is exactly what she wants! Of course she will sleep better knowing you are always there as plan B.

what you should start doing is giving the impression that you will NOT sit around waiting for her. So this through actions not words (you seem to like talking, and you are giving away your game plan and that could be your downfall). Like when you discussed going dark with her! You gave away the plan by basically reassuring her that it doesnt mean the door is being closed on reconcilliation. You negated the entire purpose of going dark! They are SUPPOSED to feel you are abandoning ship! That's the point!

Stop telling her everything. Stop reassuring her you still love her and want her. Stop giving away your strategy!

SM34,

You are still making blanket statements that are incredibly naive and wrong.

"When a wife asks for 'space' to 'think', it is code for 'freedom to sleep with other men'."

This is totally wrong. There are times when that happens and many times when they really just don't want to deal with the LBS and want their space.

You keep referring to things as if it were a "game plan" and "strategy". When you do that, you imply that whatever changes you make to make yourself a better spouse and person is all fake.

SM34, I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't do as you've suggested because that's been a problem W has complained about - I work too much, always on my computer working, don't spend time with her, don't pay attention to her needs. If I acted just like that, I would be "proving her right". From previous abuse and multiple affairs with her ex-husband, she has a hard time trusting and believing someone loves her - so by dropping her, it would just hammer home to her that she's doing the right thing.

However, I am certainly maintaining distance. I will text her once in awhile about picking up my step-kids (her kids) for an outing. They consider me their dad, but she is being very weird about me seeing them, although she very much wants to see my two kids (her step-kids).

Finally, I didn't discuss "going dark" - I simply said, "Hey, let's reduce the chit-chat to essentials; we're both very emotional and this is extremely hard, and we can focus on work and the things we need to get caught up and done, and talk later."

I AM going dark, but I'm doing it in a way that isn't going to say to her "Hey, screw you, I'm not talking to you anymore" - but rather, "Hey, I know things are tough right now, I'm not leaving you alone, but just backing off". I know my W, and I know that's the right way to do it.

I have "Sandi's rules" printed out right here beside me and I am following most of them very closely; but sometimes I know when something doesn't feel right.

MrBond - thanks for commenting as well. I think your description of my W is probably more accurate.

Also, after watching this video (just found on another post, but I closed the window before I could give credit) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AErbVUDLoRY. The whole premise of Acting As If - is to act as if things were going to work out.

Right now, W is somewhat and very begrudgingly receptive of some positive things. I'm going to focus on those, while leaving an appropriate amount of time in between for the positives to simmer/sink in. I do not discuss the pending divorce, I don't discuss 'getting back together', on a RARE occasion, I maybe will say something like I did above where I said I wanted her and my kids to have a good relationship in case we ever did reconcile. And her response was positive compared to a week ago, where it would've been "We are NEVER reconciling."

So, I stopped talking right there to let that possibility simmer in her mind.

Here's the flip side: a mutual friend invited all of us over to a big bonfire this weekend. I asked W if she was going, and she said, "Probably not". (She feels very awkward with our group of friends because they know about her behavior).

I encouraged her to come, but said if she wasn't, could I take my step-kids? She said "No". I reminded her we had just talked about it being a good idea for the kids and her to stay connected, and why would that be any different for me? I got no response for like 15 minutes, so I just said, "Hey, no pressure. I understand things are chaotic right now with us, but I miss them, and would love to see them. Thanks"

So, I'm picking my battles.

'incase we reconcile' means I will take you back whenever you want, regardless of what you have done with your spare time 'thinking'.

I recommend reading a book called 'womens infidelity'. The author is a woman and she maps out how these things play out...

1) wife loses interest in sex with husband
2) wife asks for space to think. Convinces husband it is what she needs if there is any hope if saving the marriage. Husband agrees because he wants to save the marriage.
3) wife separates, starts seeing the guy she has had her eye on all along
4) wife makes occasional moves to make sure husband is still waiting.
5) wife tries her best to maintain limbo..comfortable safe relationship with husband, wild Dirty sex with boyfriend
6) husband eventually moves on and wife ends marriage or affair.
7) wife regretts separating from husband, but usually it is too late because husband has moved on

So whether it is your plan or not, you will eventually be done with waiting, and you will show obvious signs of moving on. That is when the wife usually starts to back track

Lets leave working in yourself aside for a minute. We are all here to save our marriages. we.are mot the first husbands, and wont be the last husbands to have this exact scenario happen. it would be wise to consider prior experience of others when trying to save your marriage...

You can work in yourself (the favorite motto around here these days) until you are blue in the face. If your wife thinks you will wait, she will make you wait. then one day YOU will close the door FOREVER. the 'trick' if there.ever was one, is to force her to reconsider, BEFORE you get to the point where you are done.

MrBond may not agree with this, and that is ok because to each their own, as they say....

But I think many others on here will agree fully with this.

Sandi has said many times that a woman will not reconsider her actions until she suffers a loss in the marriage relationship.

My point in the previous post is simple. Dont give her the impression you will wait forever. Be loving, caring etc..of course. Just dont say things like when we reconcile, or if we reconcile etc.. Let her do the guessing of whether you are still open to that idea, or when you will have had enough.