"W is less invested right now than she was 1-2 weeks ago"
Why do you think she is less invested? B/c you haven't had sex with her?
"For our date on Sunday, she will be at the very end of her period, may or may not still have earache. Is it worth giving affection and being knocked back than to hold back just in case it isn't the right time?"
When you use the word "affection", what exactly do you mean? When you say it may not be the right time, that makes me wonder if "affection" to you means having sex. To me, affection can be any positive touch (as LTH gave examples). If you start with something that isn't putting a lot of pressure on the outcome of the date, then there shouldn't be a large concern about being knocked down. For example, when the two of you start to enter or leave some place, touch the small of her back as you walk beside her. If you can sit close to her, then do it. Touch her arm, stroke her hair, take your finger and outline the shape of her mouth, sit with one arm over her back/shoulder, lean in to whisper something in her ear, etc. But I suggest you don't start out by reaching for the more intimate areas of her body. Those areas need to be left alone until a later time when you see how things go, at the very least...the first date. You won't be ignoring her if you do these other type of touches. When a M couple stop having these non-sexual touches, that.is the beginning of trouble. I think most women need these type of touches. Start with the less complex firs
She comes across less invested because she isn't pursuing me as much as she was. I think even though the other day wasn't a bust it just added more to the "this isn't going to be easy" pile.
I have kept away from pretty much all affection because I thought it would have been pursuing and too early.
I see affection pretty much how you described it. Never really thought about it much before. They are things I would like to do but I don't think of them naturally.
I will add some affection from now on.
When I pick the kids up on Friday I will probably only see her for 5-10 minutes. How should I be? Its basically a co-parenting situation but with someone I intend on getting more affectionate with when on a date on Sunday.
Ask how she is, keep it light and maybe a kiss on the cheek when I leave? Feels too much now I've typed it out.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
Start with the less complex touching. If you sense her pulling away from those kind, you will know to slow down.
As some of us have stated before, I think your W does not understand about mature lrelationship in a M. She rather have that easy flow in-love feelings without having to get down and work hard to get it and keep it. Maybe that is one reason she doesn't really get why you aren't ready to jump into bed. She relates love with having sex and she therefore has a problem whenever you aren't chasing her around the dinning room table to throw her down on the floor and have sex with her. If you aren't fighting, then she thinks that's what men are suppose to do. Whatever her model was growing up, could be why it bothers her if her H isn't lusting after her.
"When you say long distance do you via text/email? I wish I knew what you meant then I would understand the wink."
Yes, I was having a bit of fun with you, by suggesting long distance.
Do you believe her primary LL is WOA? More than physical affection? If so, then you need to learn how to give them to her. To me, it seems to be an art for some and a learned skill for others. But if she feels loved when you say WOA to her, then why is she not saying anything about that to you......instead of the sex?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
She comes across less invested because she isn't pursuing me as much as she was. I think even though the other day wasn't a bust it just added more to the "this isn't going to be easy" pile.
That's totally normal, even in a healthy R. Accuray's "hot and cold" post may help you understand the dynamics of this a little better:
Quote:
Another thing to expect is that your wife will run "hot and cold" -- she'll be nice to you one minute and the next will shut down hard. This is extremely confusing. Here's what's going on -- your wife will "try on" being nice to you to see how it feels, or if she gets comfortable may slide back into a familiar partner role. At some point she'll catch herself, will worry that you'll get the impression that everything is now "okay" when for her it is not, and will then make sure to demonstrate to you that everything is NOT okay by shutting you out and pushing you away. That's all an inner dialog so to you it just looks completely confusing. If you expect it, you'll enjoy when she warms up and won't worry too much when she goes cold.
It's tempting to get into a mode of catastrophic thinking -- that each time your wife goes cold you worry it will stay like that forever, or "oh boy, this is it, she's gone!" That leads you to panic and overreact. This is a roller coaster, and there will be very dramatic highs and lows. The best thing you can do is try to stay near an emotional baseline. If the WAS bounces between 10 feet up and 10 feet down, the LBS tends to go 25 feet up and 25 feet down in response. Your goal is to go 5 feet up and 5 feet down instead. Take the long term view. Easy to say, hard to do, but if you know what to expect things get easier.
Start with the less complex touching. If you sense her pulling away from those kind, you will know to slow down.
As some of us have stated before, I think your W does not understand about mature lrelationship in a M. She rather have that easy flow in-love feelings without having to get down and work hard to get it and keep it.
Yes she thinks it should just happen and be naturally easy. I know she isn't the first and won't be the last person to feel that way.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Maybe that is one reason she doesn't really get why you aren't ready to jump into bed. She relates love with having sex and she therefore has a problem whenever you aren't chasing her around the dinning room table to throw her down on the floor and have sex with her. If you aren't fighting, then she thinks that's what men are suppose to do. Whatever her model was growing up, could be why it bothers her if her H isn't lusting after her.
That is exactly how she feels. Hard thing to work with if I'm supposed to be biding my time and not pursuing. Although I do plan to push forward with the affection. I think I need to see how that goes and what her short and slightly longer term reaction is to that.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
"When you say long distance do you via text/email? I wish I knew what you meant then I would understand the wink."
Yes, I was having a bit of fun with you, by suggesting long distance.
Do you believe her primary LL is WOA? More than physical affection? If so, then you need to learn how to give them to her. To me, it seems to be an art for some and a learned skill for others. But if she feels loved when you say WOA to her, then why is she not saying anything about that to you......instead of the sex?
We did the test online. We were both the same. I do find it difficult to give WOA much without it sounding fake.
I think right now she wants WOA that relate to how attractive I find her. She seems to need it and I'm not giving that to her. Not easily anyway.
Something that I have been thinking about over the last few days is depending on how W is feeling can completely change what she thinks. Take me for example, my opinions don't change no matter what mood I'm in happy, annoyed, angry, tired.
My W however changes hers to suit her mood right there and then.
Two weeks ago she mentioned maybe wanting another child in the future. This was the evening after the MC. She was very loving and maternal although nearly 100 miles away.
On Tuesday she was telling me that she loves being a full time M. I (very carefully) suggested that she wasn't a full time M as I have the kids on most weekends. She said she would love to have them on weekends a lot more.
On the Wednesday after a stressful day she made a comment about how hard it would be having another child.
Today when i picked the kids up she was at her wits end and made comments about her not having the kids at weekends!!
Thats quite some mind changing going on all dependent on how she is feeling.
Is that normal in any way?
W and I have always been different in the way we think. I'm not sure if it's our personalities or I'm strange or she is strange. W lives in the moment and I tend to be concerned about whats next by looking at the past.
In regards to the weekends, I am going tackle this because she isn't changing it just to suit herself, but today wasn't the time. Saying that she might completely different tomorrow after a day off.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
She comes across less invested because she isn't pursuing me as much as she was. I think even though the other day wasn't a bust it just added more to the "this isn't going to be easy" pile.
That's totally normal, even in a healthy R. Accuray's "hot and cold" post may help you understand the dynamics of this a little better:
Quote:
Another thing to expect is that your wife will run "hot and cold" -- she'll be nice to you one minute and the next will shut down hard. This is extremely confusing. Here's what's going on -- your wife will "try on" being nice to you to see how it feels, or if she gets comfortable may slide back into a familiar partner role. At some point she'll catch herself, will worry that you'll get the impression that everything is now "okay" when for her it is not, and will then make sure to demonstrate to you that everything is NOT okay by shutting you out and pushing you away. That's all an inner dialog so to you it just looks completely confusing. If you expect it, you'll enjoy when she warms up and won't worry too much when she goes cold.
It's tempting to get into a mode of catastrophic thinking -- that each time your wife goes cold you worry it will stay like that forever, or "oh boy, this is it, she's gone!" That leads you to panic and overreact. This is a roller coaster, and there will be very dramatic highs and lows. The best thing you can do is try to stay near an emotional baseline. If the WAS bounces between 10 feet up and 10 feet down, the LBS tends to go 25 feet up and 25 feet down in response. Your goal is to go 5 feet up and 5 feet down instead. Take the long term view. Easy to say, hard to do, but if you know what to expect things get easier.
Thanks AS that helps a bit.
What makes that so hard is the LBS doesn't know whether the WAS is cold or gone.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
Hey T, This may or may not be helpful but women do tend to be more mood driven.
Also, I myself am indecisive and often just want my H to listen while I talk out loud. I make decisions by thinking out loud, he makes decisions internally and only speaking when a choice is made. He gets mad at me for changing my mind, I get mad that he won't just let me talk w/o knowing what I want before speaking.
One day I love my job, the next day I'm fed up with it. Same w/ the kids, one day they drive me nuts, the next I miss them while I'm at work. A lot of women just want to be able to come home, unload what happened in their day, and then start their night after being "heard." What your describing just sounds like she's looking for someone to listen to her.
I'm sure there is other WAW stuff mixed in, but mood driven actions/feelings might stick around even if things work themselves out between the two of you.
BD: Aug 2012 Separated since May 2013 S born Aug 2013 Aug 2013 H agrees to consider 'baby steps toward working things out' H is/was actively seeing someone?
Hey T, This may or may not be helpful but women do tend to be more mood driven.
Also, I myself am indecisive and often just want my H to listen while I talk out loud. I make decisions by thinking out loud, he makes decisions internally and only speaking when a choice is made. He gets mad at me for changing my mind, I get mad that he won't just let me talk w/o knowing what I want before speaking.
One day I love my job, the next day I'm fed up with it. Same w/ the kids, one day they drive me nuts, the next I miss them while I'm at work. A lot of women just want to be able to come home, unload what happened in their day, and then start their night after being "heard." What your describing just sounds like she's looking for someone to listen to her.
I'm sure there is other WAW stuff mixed in, but mood driven actions/feelings might stick around even if things work themselves out between the two of you.
Hi s_i_d,
That actually helps a lot.
It's a bit of a shame I have to be told this and by 36 years old I don't have a handle on it already. I have always taken what she's says as her final word on the matter even though I know deep down she could/would still change her mind on things. I've never really stepped back and said this to myself to not get caught up in it rather than just letting her unload.
One question though...how are we H's supposed to have any idea on where our W's stand on the subject if it's always that flexible?
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
I must admit..... I have my D most of the time. Sometimes I honestly can't wait for the night exH takes her so I can have some me time and get stuff done. Then she is gone and I miss her horribly.
Single parenting is hard. She may be hinting at if she has a partner , she would want another kid. While my one is the work of 5, I would love another kid. But not alone.
Yes, us chicks are very mood driven
I can relate to the part where when you have them you want some me time and to get stuff done.
I just struggle with decisions based solely on how I feel at the time because I know it won't always feel that way.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
That reminds me, she told me today she has got her mental health assessment on the 27th. I curious to what happens with that.
M36 W31 S4 S2 T5 M4 BD Jan12 S July12 Recon Sep12-Nov12 ILBINILWY Jan13 OM x 2 in 2013 W wants R July 13 I start D. Jan 14. Meet GF Nov 13 Have I changed enough? Jul 14
I have to admit that I probably would not be able to have the patients you have with your W. Especially considering how extreme she gets. One week she is saying you can't have the kids every weekend (which nobody believed a word of it), and before you could wink, she has changed her mood.....which for her means she chanes her mind/decision. One day she is wanting another baby, the next she's calling you b/c she can't endure taking care of the two kids she has.
I agree that a lot of women are mood driven. I believe there are a lot of unfortunate decisions made based on the mood at the moment. I agree about needing to be heard. I have to talk it out in order to deal with my feelings.
But I still think your W is too much! I really don't know how you have stayed sane through the time you've been with her. One thing you should realize above anyone else is not to take what she says as her final word or decision.
Is she easily influenced to change her mind by other people swaying her? Not you, but friends, etc.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
