Went by Ws work unannounced to drop off some information on her business I was helping her with. Got very good eye contact, warm, no ice wall from what I could tell. Our little girlie (dog) was there and I had to stop and pet her, took my attention off W but I couldn't help myself. Pet the dog and she had her dog tag with my last name on it, she hasn't had this tag on in a long time.
I asked if W had some time and she said yes. I talked with her about the info I got her, how her reviews of the employees was (she was nervous about it), new business ideas she had, promotional ideas she had, and I was supportive and encouraging. Had PMA up and was looking good in my best suit and tie. She asked if it was a new tie, she has seen this tie many times, I don't get it.
Talked about the money tree I got her and how it was doing good, when to water, nurture etc. Talked about the dog and how her face was getting grey in the face and when she gets more grey in the face she will be old and W will be sad when she dies. Weird. She is only four, I joked about it. We laughed about my joke. We looked at her together like parents look at children.
Nicki, a girl who works for W and her now best friend, walked by and gave me a squeeze on the shoulders, was this because I didn't say hi to her or other signal? Weird. I told W how beautiful she looked and we made good eye contact, I told her I liked her makeup (big compliment), we talked and joked for a good five to ten minutes, didn't notice anyone around us until a customer walked in and broke it up.
She said I was sounding better, I've been sick, and asked about my trip to NY and I was the babbling brooke, opposite for me. I told her more details etc.
Positives are we had good eye contact, talked, connected, laughed. How come I can't help feeling negative about this interaction? Is it because there is a lack of pain and ice wall it feels weird? How come with all the good eye contact I still feel like this is a negative interaction? Anyone have experience here? Is it normal to feel nervous and weird after a good interaction?
I'm back and I'm really looking for some help here. W has said she wants to talk about "US" tomorrow. This is her way of saying she wants to talk about filing D papers.
I'm going to use this opportunity to tell her how much I love her since I haven't really done that yet although we have been seperated for almost 4 months now.
I think this is the right thing to do. Please look at my longer post above. I would really appreciate some opinions from people that have had this talk before.
How have you been able to get the WAS to give you and your M another chance? What have been the important things that have influenced their decision to open their heart to reconcile?
Either way it seems like your game plan should be the same. Be her friend. No begging and pleading. You cannot force her to work on M. The more you do the more she will not want to.
Think about how you want to express your love to her. Not that that wouldn't be a good thing, but there is a point where it will be preceived as pushing, pleading and make her uncomfortable.
Had talk with W tonight, she was here for about 2.5 hours, the longest she has been at the house since we were seperated. She was hungry and I made a gourmet pizza with her favorite wine. I had a good vibe going with candles, mood lighting, and some romantic jazz. I was looking good and giving off PMA.
W ate, we talked about my parents and my work travels. We talked about her business and she is still in the red and she is struggling to make it work. She said she was stressed and was stretching it thin to make ends meet. I was as supportive as possible.
She then switched on her alien face and went straight into some letters and joint account stuff we needed switched into my name. She then actually said the D word when referring to the papers. First time she has said the D word since like September.
She started tearing up immediately and said she was going to cry throughout this whole process. I got a box of Kleenex and I stopped her talking about the details of it. I told her I love her and although this is the hardest thing in the world for me to do, I would not stand in her way of a D if this is what she wanted because of my love and respect for her. I told her I loved her more than anything in this world and was so sorry I hurt her and caused her pain.
I told her I could understand why she wouldn't want to be with me anymore, especially since she gave me so many chances to change and I didn't. She said she was so patient with me, after a while she gradually stopped loving me since I wasn't listening to her and wasn't respectful of her. I said I understood and validated and it must have been so tough to keep on loving me while I repeatedly ignored her feelings and pain and continued to hurt her. She seemed to agree.
She then said she didn't want to be married anymore and didn't love me anymore. This is the first time she has ever said she didn't love me anymore, before it was always she wasn't in love with me anymore. I said I understood how she could feel this way especially since I had hurt her so many times and it must have seemed like I was intentionally doing it while I really wasn't. I said I should have told her a million times how much I love her and how much she means to me but didn't.
I told her I know it seems like I haven't been around and supporting you but I thought that is what she wanted. I thought she wanted me to respect what she was saying which was she didn't want tme there so I was trying to do that. I asked if she really wanted me to pursue her and show her I loved her and she said no, she didn't want me there.
I said this has been a very confusing time for me since I've been trying to listen to her words and respect them (new action) while also trying to understand what she really means. She said, I KNOW IT IS CONFUSING. WTF? Does this mean she is admitting she says one thing and means another?
She says she has no intention of getting back together and wants this D to happen. I asked why haven't you filed then until now? She said she didn't know. She thought that we would do it together (file since we aren't using a lawyer). She said she didn't think she could do it on her own so she was waiting to do it together. She said she would get a lawyer and file on her own because she was in so much pain and wanted this to be over. I told her I would look at the papers and we didn't need a lawyer. SO IS THIS A COP OUT? COULD SHE REALLY NOT HAVE KNOWN SHE COULD FILE ON HER OWN? SHE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHY SHE WAITED UNTIL NOW? I am confused and don't know if she really just wants me to fight for our marriage.
I asked if I could make an observation and said I wasn't trying to control her or pressure her, the decision is still ultimately up to her and I won't stop her because I love her.
I then said it seems to me that she is forcing herself to not love me. She is running so fast and surrounding herself with people, OM, other distractions and she isn't thinking about us with an open heart. I said I know her better than anyone on this planet and she agreed. I said I think she is intentionally running away from me because she is scared she might fall in love with me again.
I asked her to consider thinking about us with an open heart and an open mind. To talk to her family about us with an open heart and not just to defend her position. I asked her to stop and slow down enough to think about us.
She said she did talk about us all the time. I asked with who, and she SAID OM . I said that seems to be a conflict of interest and asked how could she be objective if that is who she is talking to? She said she spends the most time with him and that is natural. I said she was using him as a distraction to forget about me.
I asked if she loved him and she again said no. I asked why she is with him and she said it was convient. CONVIENENT? Does that sound like she is forcing herself to forget or what?
I said the W I know and love wouldn't be with a man unless she loved him and cared about him. She just looked at me and cried. I once again asked that she give herself some time to really slow down and think about us and what she was doing. She said she would think about it but most likely her opinion won't change. She wants a D. She said she will talk with her family this week and she would call me later.
So really confusing. On the one hand she keeps saying she wants a D, she doesn't want to be married anymore, she doesn't want to be with me anymore, and she is "happy" now that she is on her own
She all but admitted she is running from her true feelings, won't admit to herself I have changed and have become a better person, won't admit to herself she won't allow me the opportunity to show her I have changed because she keeps running and won't spend the time with me, won't admit to herself that she is forcing herself to keep busy and forget about me, UNTIL I CHALLENGED HER TO THINK ABOUT IT. Then she said she probably wouldn't change her opinon anyway. But she admits she has been holding onto this D information since Oct and hasn't done a thing with it. This is so screwed. W NEEDS TO ADMIT SHE IS DENYING HERSELF THE CHANCE TO BE HAPPY.
And apparently, she can't admit to herself I HAVE ALREADY CHANGED, she keeps saying WHEN you change. I pointed out to her the old me would have already killed the OM by now. She seemed to acknowledge that one.
There were a lot of silent moments when W just sat there thinking and didn't say anything. W also cried heavily, even more so than me. After the talk, she hugged me for a long time, longer than we have since S. It felt really good, I don't know if she was trying to see if she felt somthing or not. I hope and pray for sure.
Thanks everyone. I am going to ask her to go to a counseling session with me. I am going to ASK HER to consider going to counseling at least to try and rebuild our friendship and to let go of the pain and resentment and to forgive.
I may also say I ASK HER to go to see if she is forcing herself to not love me with distractions and such. I may also ASK HER to go to see if there is any possibility she would open her heart and allow me to love her again and see if she could love me again. These two requests may be more of a longer term goal and request. Any thoughts and opinions here?
I hope she is willing to go at least for the first two reasons above. I honestly think we need to go at least to rebuild our friendship and for her to let go of the pain. She seems to be somewhat responsive to considering things when I ask her to think about them.
May still be too early to tell what has really worked since I'm sure she is still thinking through everything we had talked about. A lot to think over.
I did my best at validating her feelings and comments and tried to really listen and understand. One thing that is confusing for me is that she seemed to get overwhelmed with pain and emotions when I validated (too well?).
It seemed to me all the pain came flooding back to her (because she has been keeping it buried) she told me to stop validating because it sounded so horrible.
So she is obviously still holding onto the pain, the reasons for the pain, and holding resentment and me responsible. Do I try and address this issue either ASKING HER to go to counselling or again making an observations and ASKING HER to think about it if she is holding onto this pain as a reason to not allow herself to get close to me and open her heart to consider forgiveness and ultimately reconciliation.
From what I have read, reconciliation and forgiveness aren't possible if the person continues to hold onto pain and resentment and the reasons for the pain (blaming me). I have ASKED HER to take a step back and think about these things and her actions and why she is doing things. She has AT LEAST SAID SHE WILL CONSIDER what I have said and think about them. She has also said she would talk with her family with an open heart.
Both of these things are huge steps in my mind, since she wouldn't even consider or think about these things or take any action whatsoever before. So there might be some baby steps made here.
But how do I get her to face what she is doing to herself and to allow herself to soften her heart? How do I get her to forgive and let go of the resentment? This will be a key first step to the possibility of reconciliation, just not sure how I get her to do this.
