Thanks, Aquarian. I really appreciate your thoughts and comments. She has been sick the last two weeks with the flu, then a cold, so I have tried to give her some room. We had a nice day yesterday...painted the living room, went on a walk, had my mom over for dinner. Then, I was on my way up to be and walked up to her and said, "Can I have a hug?" She looked at me with, what I would almost call disgust. You see, when I ask for something like this, she says I use a "whimper-y" voice, and it really turns her off. Of course, I think I'm asking in a normal, modulated voice. But why should this make a difference anyway? I am asking for something I want, and is it so hard to provide a hug?
She says she should be able to say "no" and I should respect that. It's not even that she said "no" (which she didn't), it's the look of derision she gave me. If she had said, "no, I still feel kind of sick and don't feel like hugging right now," that would have been fine. It's okay to say "no," just do it politely, if at all possible.
When she came to bed, I was reading. She said the "I should be entitled to say no and have you respect that" statement, and told me I was asking for a hug like a small child, and that I should have just come up and given her a hug, and if she felt like hugging me back, then she would have. I told her that, if I had just come up and hugged her, isn't that forcing myself on her, like some sort of rape, because I didn't have her consent in advance? (I know this sounds stupid, but she has actually brought this up in the context of more intimate touching). Plus, I said, I didn't just want to hug her, and have her be hugged like a lump, I wanted a mutual hug. She said she was sick and didn't feel like hugging. I told her that sometimes it was difficult to be her husband, because there were so many wrong ways to approach her. She asked me to turn out the light. I wasn't done reading, so I took my book into the extra bedroom, and ended up sleeping there.
This morning I left for work without saying goodbye. She called me on my cell as I was pulling out of the driveway, accusing me of being passive/aggressive and punishing her by not saying goodbye. She said I need to be okay with her saying "no" to things, and get over this need to punish her. I told her I just didn't feel like saying goodbye and that I wasn't aware it was a marital obligation. (Okay, so I was being passive aggressive. Is that really so bad? Why should I feel obligated to say goodbye to her when I don't feel like it?)
On the good side, she has shown a bit more affection lately, and I mentioned this and told her I appreciated it. She said that we had had a nice day, and that I was letting her refusal to hug me ruin it, as if all the affectionate things didn't exist. I denied that. She ended up hanging up on me...can't remember exactly why.
Wow its ok for her to give you a look of distaste for asking for a hug, but not ok for you to not feel like saying goodbye? Do you guys go to counseling? I am on the verge of asking H to go (knowing he feels all counselors and shrinks are full of bull) Would like to know if counseling really works. Anyway, glad you had a good day, and sorry it wasn't so good at the end.
Why don't you say NO to something that she wants to do.
You should have the right to say NO to painitng, shouldn't you?
Grow a pair and start a fight. At least it will add some passion to mix. Could it be that she wants to get in the ring and mix it up a bit?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Hey Hairdog! I'm glad to hear things have been a bit more affectionate lately, but sorry you had a lousy evening. Just wondering... does she take care of you when you're sick? One of your posts mentioned her calling your cellphone to ask for a drink? Does she reciprocate the treatment if you're under the weather? I realize we tend to get a little one-sided on these boards, but, does she do ANYTHING that makes you feel like she loves you?
Quote: You see, when I ask for something like this, she says I use a "whimper-y" voice, and it really turns her off. But why should this make a difference anyway?
Do you really need her consent to hug? Surely she hasn't been this cold since you've known her? Was there ever a time that you could just hug her without permission first? Or is this a "side effect" of her Women's Issues classes? And I thought I had a hang up over consent! I don't understand why she's putting such an emphasis on something that shouldn't even require consent. Have the wrong ways to approach her been multiplying over the years? Surely you wouldn't have married someone like this. When and why did this change so negatively? Ask her.
Quote: If she had said, "no, I still feel kind of sick and don't feel like hugging right now," that would have been fine. It's okay to say "no," just do it politely, if at all possible.
Did you tell her that? Stop bottling your thoughts up - say these things - she needs to know AND you need to get them out.
Quote: Okay, so I was being passive aggressive. Is that really so bad?
No, it's not THAT bad. It's kinda silly, but it happens to the best of us when feeling somewhat powerless/hopeless!
- She refuses to hug you, so you don't feel like saying goodbye.
- She refuses to acknowledge or take ANY responsibility for your SSM, so you... hmmmm try reaching out to her. Sounds like a vicious circle to me. It's not healthy or fair to be forced to take the blame for everything! Please Hairdog, seek counselling! She NEEDS it. If she's been more affectionate lately, why the heck would she refuse to hug you or give you a look that says don't even think about it? Something isn't right. Put your foot down!
Hey Aquarian! Yes, I told her, in an email, that saying no is okay, just do it politely. She says that the look of disgust I saw was all in my head. We had an even bigger fight last night, with her saying that I refuse to take any blame for anything that's going wrong, and that she tries and tries and then does one little thing I take issue with, and I forget about all the good things. It was kind of an ugly fight, with her ridiculing me, me saying she was acting immature, her telling me to grow up, etc. We finally ended up in an uneasy truce, continuing to paint the living room, and watching Average Joe Hawaii. I went to bed first, she came up about 45 minutes later, said something else nasty about the way I perceive things, and I didn't respond, because I wanted to get some sleep.
I just keep on remembering that what first attracted her to me was my confidence, and that I have lost a lot of that over the years. I am trying to be firm, gentle, patient, loving, and self-confident. Unfortunately, she characterizes that as a holier-than-thou attitude I'm copping, but, all I can do is all I can do.
To answer some of your questions, yes, she probably would take care of me when I was sick, I just don't seem to get sick very often (knock on wood). And no, she hasn't always been like this. She was very amorous and understanding when I first met her. But in retrospect, she did seem to have kind of a hang up about how I approached her when I wanted to make love. I didn't think it was that big of a deal.
Oh, and Sarah, I did give her that letter...she went ballistic, as you probably read.
It occured to me while reading your post that the argument you guys have about one action nulling the rest hits home a bit for me. I believe I have felt that way at times. As silly or difficult as it may seem now, maybe you can try to make an effort to acknowledge her positive action "baby steps" as they occur so that when a hurtful look or comment does happen she can't use that reasoning anymore. Make sense?
About 2 weeks after things were improving in our bedroom, and we had been ML at least every other day, H and I had an argument and in the heat of it he stated that having more sex doesn't make everything else go away and erase the way he's been hurting over the past few years. Of course I took it as him thinking I was JUST having more SEX with him and got upset that all of my baby steps were seemingly nulled by a disagreement. Generally speaking, more frequent sex or even showing more affection takes effort for the LD spouse; it doesn't necessarily come naturally. I had mentioned in one of my posts on the board that he has been emailing here and there with little egreetings and notes which work as acknowledgements of my efforts. I honestly believe our disagreement coupled with the sex statement would have put out my desire to try if he had not been acknowledging my efforts along the way. You can't just notice and enjoy the baby steps with some people! They need the acknowledgement and over time it won't be such a big deal, because you'll end up acknowledging sexual efforts
I hope you can follow my thinking. This all brings me back to the romance though... how are you supposed to acknowledge without sounding holier-than-thou rather than romancing her? I recall her having a thing about romance. You weren't kidding when you said you choose challenging women!
If your confidence is what attracted her to you then it will again. However, there is a fine line between confidence and a holier-than-thou approach. After all, you're both lawyers! Is it possible that she feels like you need to help out more with the baby? Maybe she views her (newly added) mother role as somehow inferior to you and would rather the responsibility be more equal. Does she typically get DD up and to daycare, and pick her up after work? Judging by your posts, I seem to think you're probably very helpful. I was just thinking out loud I guess!
Think back to "the early days" and find out what you were doing differently. Can you see anything that you do that can be taken as holier-than-thou? As for her hang up on how to be approached for ML, did you always respect the hang up and approach her the way she preferred? Have you ever discussed the hang up?
I'm sure I could acknowledge her "baby steps" more often, but it's another fine line with her...does my acknowledgement sound patronizing? Geeze, my head hurts. As far as helping with the baby, I usually am responsible for picking DD up from the sitter and taking her home, which I do at about 5pm. W doesn't get home until 7, so DD and I do some cleaning, laundry, cooking, playing until W gets home. And whenever W can't drop DD off in the morning due to work/conflicts, I will take care of that, too. No, I don't think it's a problem there.
Regarding her weirdness on how to be approached when ML, yes, I've talked to her about it, but not lately, since I haven't really approached her for that reason for months.
I've done what I can do. I gave her the SSM book, which she has read 31 pages of. I guess I just have to be patient, speak my mind when I need to, and love her.
My H (LD or ND) and I (HD) have been in counseling since Oct. 03. He has also been diagnosed as having a great deal of hostility and also as being passive/agressive. I don't feel that we've made any progress. I just am paying for the same bs that I was getting before...he'll try to pay more attention to me...he'll try to get a consistent job...blah blah blah. None of it has happened, unfortunately.
I'm now feeling a great deal of hostility (I measured very low on this on the profile we took)and, beyond that, don't have a clue how I feel about him right now. I'm not sure I still love him. When he says that he loves me I immediately think "yeah, right." I am not feeling the love that he proclaims. I hate the person that I'm becoming and can see the change in myself both physically and emotionally. I know that I'd be better off just walking away at this point, but I'm not a quitter.
I have started a new fitness program that should have me at 2-3 miles within 2 months. I'm trying to focus on doing positive things for ME at this point. I seem to have little control over my relationship with my H, and he doesn't seem motivated to change that.
I'm trying a mental fitness program I call "Confidobics" (I just made that up). It's about becoming more confident and self assured. I seem to let her decide everything I do, and I intend to stop that. Last night, I know she expected to come home to a living room that had some new areas ready to be painted. Instead, she came home to a house with a newly-cleaned-out van in the garage (something I had wanted to do last weekend before she decided we would paint the living room), and a husband who was playing with his daughter. She made one little mention about some touch up painting that was needed, and I told her that the room was too dark to paint by the time she got home, so it would have to wait for the weekend. She agreed.
I have been through counseling before, and have had mixed results. But I know what you mean about paying for the same b/s you were getting before. Sounds like you might need to go to counseling by yourself.
Does she reciprocate the treatment if you're under the weather? I realize we tend to get a little one-sided on these boards, but, does she do ANYTHING that makes you feel like she loves you?
And I thought I had a hang up over consent! 
I don't understand why she's putting such an emphasis on something that shouldn't even require consent. Have the wrong ways to approach her been multiplying over the years? Surely you wouldn't have married someone like this. When and why did this change so negatively? Ask her.
Sounds like you might need to go to counseling by yourself.