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It has been a while since I checked the hidey hole, maybe a month.

Warding off women....? Now who's got jokes?

My other thought is it might be his dad's - that's the best benefit of the doubt I can give him.

Yes, I looked into the secretarial course - that's the tuition/time I mentioned. I have wondered about assistance from my job; I am supposed to be "reviewed" in the next couple weeks and thought I'd ask then.

I really am at a loss with this ring business.

I have been having anxiety attacks of late, today with the ring its no exception.

So something's got to give. I've got to make changes some how some way. Going back to my thread title, I have to force myself to become uncomfortable.

All I feel I have left of R is night time spooning and good bye kisses in the am. And sometimes LOL, I hate these "tokens" as much as I crave them.

But then there was the "maybe one day I'll be a good husband" comment... (Truth be told my first response (swallowed, not spoken) was "For whom?")

And my anxiety attacks seem to truly concern H.

Will I be better off if I tell H that I can no longer "play wife"? Or will this result in even more sever panic attacks?

Definitely have had better days.

OK. So, on the day of discovery I carried that ring around with me all day, debating. I finally put it back without saying anything.

For a bunch of reasons.

First it was because it doesn't matter. My reasoning on this was that it was just another piece of the infidelity I already suspected - so what's one more leaf on the tree?

And then I thought well what if it was something fairly benign? Then, approaching H would be awful - he'd know I snooped and if he is currently behaving himself then my checking up on him would be damaging.

But I've been mulling and stewing over it, as you might imagine. So today, H leaves for the casino. I plant myself with a view of the hidey hole and wait to see how this is going to play out. H packs everything up, including opening his hidey hole to grab the money, but I can't tell if he took the ring too.

Until of course he leaves. And yes, he took the ring.

Sigh.

And now I'm conflicted again. I truly believe this ring has something to do with ow.

And remember that for our anniversary H offered to be open and honest about this supposedly platonic relationship they were having.

Someone explain how this boundary thing is supposed to work.

And someone explain too, this unconditional love idea and how that is supposed to work with someone who has had "numerous women".

And so, if I ask him about the ring, which is probably going to have to happen because otherwise I think I may become physically ill, and it does have ow connections, what am I supposed to do then?

Because the deal was that things could/would continue status quo as long as things were as they should be. A deal H offered - his own idea. I read that as I have the right to ask and receive honest answers about their dealings.

But this rampant cake eating must end if he's not keeping to his part of his own "bargain".

And then of course I cycle back to not wanting to disrupt the twins' senior year, so-maybe-I-should-just-swallow-everything-you-know-like-I-have-done-for-the-last-15-years-and-oh-my-god-if-I-have-to-keep-doing-that-I-think-I'd-rather-die.

I'm trying guys, really I am.

But the quicksand has a hold of me.

hi - just read your posts - i'm sooo sorry you find yourself being sucked under.

i don't pretend to know the right answer for you- it's the awfulness of the ow thing- i know from personal experience.

my h never made any pretence of not seeing her- it's just this giant THING in the room between us (i feel )always - tho he acts normally (sans any affection) . it stinks - it hurts- you know -

i hate it- have not gone to the place that would end it all rite now- becasue of several reasons. chicken- no job that will support me (yet) (i've been dragging my feet - dbing) - is it better w/ devil i know than TOTALLY all alone - FOREVER (OR so i think) - he may turn ratty - what then? etc.

only you know how "done" you are. i'm sorry i can't help more- i just wanted to show up and say i can feel your pain. i was thinking in shower just now i never ever thought i'd find myself here - cheated on - multiple ow - h has no shame- no mercy- doing exactly whatever he wants- w/ ow rite now- i could kill him - no kidding.

it's the worst place we'll ever be maybe - i hope you find some conclusion you can live with and it gives you a bit of peace. becoming physically ill is not so good for you or kids either-

kids today are smart & comassionate little beings- perhaps they would understand if you blew it all up in a bid to keep your sanity. they may be more adaptable than you think? i hope you find your way soon & get a reprieve . best of luck-

((( ))) xxoo

Mz, I am so sorry you find yourself in this position.

I hope you dont mind if I say a few things.

I wanted to post something to you that a friend of mine posted to someone. I know he wouldnt mind.

And I get how you dont want to ruin your children's senior year. But, your health is important, too.

So, here's the post about boundaries. Hope it helps.
Remember boundaries are to protect you. And if you set one, you have to be able to follow up on it.

Think about , very specifically, what you want boundaries on.

List them out and read them (aloud) to yourself. Sometimes reading them aloud will give you a new perspective on them. If they sound funny, then find out why they do, because they might not be a boundary that you need to relay to him....

Make sure, 100%, that you boundaries are NOT for you to "punish" him in any way...

Watch how you deliver them to him. Make sure that you word them without coming across as controlling to him....

Closely examine the words "you", and "I" . Anytime one uses those words, there is a strong chance of using guilt, or blame.

"Always" and "Never" are words that make us hypocrites....try to stay away from them as well.

Make sure that YOU feel good about saying them, and they are only to protect your emotional being, or physical in some cases.

Make sure that you are willing to die on that hill. I.E. = it is worth it to even state them.

Do NOT overstate them. Say what you want ONCE, and rest on that. Don't explain yourself, you have your reasons, just like he has his.

Then you need to back away, and live with those boundaries, and let him live with them. They will cause him to spin a little, but that isn't your problem now.

Use tact, not anger. Tact was described to me as telling someone to go to hell, and they look forward to the trip.

Be the person that you want to be, regardless what happens. You are setting a boundary, not to induce a reaction, but regardless the reaction.

Thinking of you.

"But then there was the "maybe one day I'll be a good husband" comment... (Truth be told my first response (swallowed, not spoken) was "For whom?")."

For you Mz. J. A good husband for you. A MC I had back in 2010 told me that if and when a man (or woman I guess) comes out of MLC, he will see the pain and destruction left in his wake, and will become an excellent husband.  To me or to his next wife. The C said it was my choice whether to try to wait it out.  

Just like it's your choice. I think this is where the unconditional love comes in. Whether he had one OW or numerous OW, your job, if you choose to stand, is the same. To give him the space and time to work through whatever psychological trauma caused his MLC. 

Facing infidelity and lying hurts so much and does make us physically ill. Your physical and mental health are important Mz. J, A person can only take so much, and only you can know if it's time to enforce a boundary. 

Your boundary, I guess, is enforcing your H's promise to be open and honest about his R with OW? From reading uR's excellent post on boundary setting (thanks uR!) I don't see that as an enforcable boundary. Because you cannot control him. 

You wrote "Because the deal was that things could/would continue status quo as long as things were as they should be. A deal H offered - his own idea. I read that as I have the right to ask and receive honest answers about their dealings."

I guess by "status quo," you mean that their relationship remains platonic? I have a feeling that "as long as things were as they should be" is the most important part of that statement. 

Have you any other proof or reason to things are NOT as they should be besides that ring? Because I just don't get why you're so convinced that the ring is connected to OW. Are you even certain that she goes to the casino with him? He's there to "work" afterall, not to have fun. It IS bizarre that he brought the ring with him, but I think it has another nefarious purpose connected to gambling, not the OW. 

If you are going to "ask and receive honest answers about their dealings" I would just ask about their relationship. NOT about the ring. And I wouldn't try to enforce him telling you the truth as a boundary. I think a boundary has to be for you. 

"And then of course I cycle back to not wanting to disrupt the twins' senior year, so-maybe-I-should-just-swallow-everything-you-know-like-I-have-done-for-the-last-15-years-and-oh-my-god-if-I-have-to-keep-doing-that-I-think-I'd-rather-die."

I hate that you're feeling like you're sinking into quicksand J. I hate that you're in so much pain. I have no advice. I'm just muddling along myself. But I read something Holly06 wrote that might help you J. 

"Nothing trumps the one overiding single most important task we must learn and take - we must Let It Go. Those three words should drown out all other sounds.

When we Let It Go, and add Turn It Over To God, we are giving ourself and possibly others, the most powerful gift on the planet. Even if one stops with Let It Go, they have made it to the finish line. What they do after that, is their life to live. They must accept the fact that this does not have to kill us. We all have to chose, and we alone can do so - how we will continue to live as a person among the people of the better world."

Nero, UW Thank you.

The boundaries I have in mind would be similar to LRT. But not done for effect on H or the M. Just done because I want nothing to do with H while he is involved with another woman.

I feel hurt and taken advantage of to think that while I am taking care of H (cleaning, laundry, shopping, cooking, back rubs, companionship) during the week that he has a "weekend wife" who he lives at a hotel/casino with and "loves".

So, if my suspicions are confirmed I plan to stop all that parenthetical activity listed above.

I have been rehearsing this in the theater of my mind. It goes something like this.

"H, I feel hurt and used by this affair. In order for me to feel less used I will no longer be doing "wife" duties for you. I find being around you, and talking to you, very painful right now and so will not be spending time with you and plan to only speak with you when necessary."

Then I leave the room and cry for days.

H shrugs and says whatever.

And the kids notice. And I tell them.... what?

I am voting for honesty. Which would be "your father has found someone else. This makes me not want to spend time with him."

Gee, what a mess this all is.

And of course this all hinges on H actually telling me the truth about that damned ring. So, what am I going to do if he says "oh blankety blank (non ow person) gave that to me for good luck" (This is the only story I can think of that he would tell me. But I'm not very creative, maybe he can come up with something else.)

I guess the blankety blank story could be true. But I feel strongly that he would have told me about something like that. Because he comes home quite chatty about his casino trips.

I feel less concerned about him thinking I "snooped" since he went into his hidey hole in front of me. I'm not sure if he knows I know about it or not, but he didn't go to any effort to hide it from me yesterday.

It has finally occurred to me - sometimes I am astonishingly slow - that H doesn't "lie to me to not hurt me" but rather to not have to face any consequences. But, I don't think he knows that, I think he believes his own lies.

And Nero, I hear you on the money thing. Right now, working 2 jobs, 7 days a week, I gross about $17000 a year. While this does place me above the "poverty" level, its not enough money to do anything close to continue my "lifestyle". Which is eating in the same month I pay the electric bill.

So, what to do what to do what to do?

Pity there's no cliffs in this part of Ohio.

I'm sorry J, I guess we "cross posted." i understand why you say "I feel hurt and taken advantage of to think that while I am taking care of H (cleaning, laundry, shopping, cooking, back rubs, companionship) during the week that he has a "weekend wife" who he lives at a hotel/casino with and "loves" but my question is the same -- why are you so sure the ring is connected to OW?

"I feel less concerned about him thinking I "snooped" since he went into his hidey hole in front of me. I'm not sure if he knows I know about it or not, but he didn't go to any effort to hide it from me yesterday.

It has finally occurred to me - sometimes I am astonishingly slow - that H doesn't "lie to me to not hurt me" but rather to not have to face any consequences. But, I don't think he knows that, I think he believes his own lies."

since he made no effort to hide it from you, you could just say somehing like "hey, where did you get that ring?" Then watch for that tell-tale sly gazing to the side thing men do when they lie. I'm sure they all lie for many different reasons, not having to face the consequences is tied in with not wanting to hurt you Mz. J. 

When does he return?

Hi Linda. Our posts crossed I guess. I am a slow writer.

The ring is a wedding band.

And "let it go" is not off the table.

I just hurt, you know?

Like the MLCers maybe. And want to make some sort of change, some how some way, so I don't hurt so much.

The "status quo", and the boundaries, referred to me continuing to "play wife".

One of my theories is that this ring thing may have been her idea. Not that this excuses H, because clearly he is going along with it. But IDK, and never will, his "heart". Before, back at initial ow discovery, he accused me of "pushing", that I didn't know "what was inside" of him, what he was thinking while dealing with her. Your post speaks to this, I think.

But Linda. Whether he had one OW or numerous OW, your job, if you choose to stand, is the same. To give him the space and time to work through whatever psychological trauma caused his MLC.

The first A he admits to happened 17 years ago. And since then? "Numerous women."

What am I "standing" for?

I don't argue AT ALL that H is hurting. I believe he actually loves me. I think he feels "safe" with me. I "get" that he has holes in him that he seeks to fill with ow and for now gambling.

And I don't mean to sound like the little voice from the back seat asking "are we there yet?", but seriously, how much longer? Another 17 years? Some of the newbies make me SMH because they'll be all "WHAT? ITS BEEN 2 MONTHS SINCE BD, WHY IS THIS STILL HAPPENING!!"

And I have had practice at this - so if you tell me "2 years" I'd be. OK. I can do that. Tell me 3 and sigh, ok, I can do that. 5? WOW. To go on like this? I don't know, but I'll try.

INDEFINITELY? So that upon my or his death bed I can get abject apology - like his folks? Please, no.

I suppose this all comes down to detachment. I haven't done enough work toward that.

Thank you for posting Linda. I've been thinking about your H whenever I hear about Snowden being in the "Transit Zone"... You are an amazing woman.

Linda, this cross posting is getting a little crazy lol.

I'm not sure when he returns actually.

Normally it would be Sunday evening, for work Monday.

But Friday he got mad at his work for delaying his departure and told me while packing that "if he was doing well he might stay another day because he was so angry with work."

Shudder. I hope he doesn't do that.

hey hi-

now listen. i feel worried to hear you sound so despearte- forget the cliff- do you hear!!! bad girl , bad bad girl. this is you take care of you time - seriously. we are all we have -


I think that means we all (me included) need to endure the hurt- grow a pair - suck it up - IN FURTHERANCE of our own needs - security, kids, stability (mental or otherwise) , etc. whatever suits our needs at this moment.

doesn't have to be forever - just for now- til a better life/plan & ability to implement it.

I DO HEAR you about the money & ow & so on . i'm gonna throw in my two cents here. (lots of folks think i'm nuts - maybe) i realize in talking to you now - i've made several POLICY DECISIONS - and even when they're hard to stick to- i have so far.... I JUST keep tellin self i can always walk out TOMORROW - it gets me thru.

but for better or worse:

1) I do not have a (way) to pay my bills at this very moment - (well, except spend all my savings and ditch any hope of a safety net in life). (job is done til september unless if ind something else) but even before that - i decided - THERE FORE - WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT- WHETHER IT STINKS OR NOT- (money matters alot for bills - a roof over the head matters alot- food too- if he is THE WAY TO HAVE those things- i'll stand here til i have SOMETHING BETTER TO go to). no kidding...

I'M STAYIN HERE (i offered to clear out a couple times - NEVER AGAIN. HE'S GOING to have to kick ME out) - i'm sucking it up FOR ME- A ROOF over my head- my insecurity about being totally totally alone with the bills - and/or h turning ratty and making me buy him out and financially "hurt" (not destroy") me.

2) the ow thing- i cannot imagine about a man's ring. wtf it could be- you'll drive yourself crazy wondering. since you know you're in a big troubled sitch with this guy- put the details out of your mind. i know- easier said than done- i'm just sayin- DO NOT LET THIS MAKE YOU CRAZY.

why not just stop doing the wifely duties , as you see fit , and don't even say it out loud (since it sounds v stressful for you to announce your boundary).?? it's hard to be saying things - just do them. just change you & your "wifepoo-ness" - i'd cry for days too- i've just stopped little by little doing stuff i always did- idk-

when i actually say it out loud - a "discussion" ensues and it's never good - i only say it when he asks for something(like hemming pants) and then i'm ratty and say" so, you want ME to hem pants for you to wear with your lovergirl?" he was surprised (???) and didn't expect me to ever - what? have feelings and a brain?

3)
THE KIDS - I don't have kids - my neice (14) spends alot of time here- i love her- i do not want her suffering to think of me suffering. if i told her he has ow- she'd feel badly - alot. she's got enough junk in her own life (alcoholic father spinning out of control) youth, etc.

I just said (when i had to) we're having a bit of a hard time at present- it happens with adults - it makes things a bit wierd but hopefully it will all be okay (for her security about us - not mine) and left it there. she accepted it - i don't want her to feel insecure about another r in her life that has ALWAYS been there and strong. why make her feel like parts of her world are crumbling - it's enough to know there's something without details. she's too young. when it blows to hell -i'll tell her then...my mother too- do not want her input- not her business -




i know- what jerks they are - huh???? my h is the biggest f'ing chicken in the universe. for all his manly man stuff- i've got more b@lls than him when it comes to confronting the truth- the hard things - myself... what & who i am.

they have the big man facade - they tell themselves they are "nice guys" and don't want to hurt us. my h said that too- i wanted to laugh in his face - maybe i did- can't remember. what idiots-i do know i told him" so, do you think you're a nice guy? hate to burst your bubble - you are not- at all - you are not "my friend" , you do not know what the word means - no one treats other people like this - even strangers, much less someone you loved".

idk- if it's a bunch of hot air then sorry for being pushy and feel free to chuck me out the window.

you need to let yourself off the hook for a bit- decide to not decide . DECIDE IT IS OKAY FOR YOU TO NOT KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOU'RE DOInG OR THINKING. (this is such anuncharted territory for us all - what would you tell your best friend to make her feel better - to help her????? tell youself that.

you do not need to have "the answer" rite this minute. i felt better one nite when i just said this stuff to myself- i needed to hear it- to decide that i didn't HAVE TO decide . i'm just not READY and in full control - full knowledge - maybe never will be. it's okay to not know anyhthing about something that is someone elses crap taking us out - we don't know - we CAN'T know it all- let yourself off that hook -

breath, take one little step at a time- if you're spinning so badly over this boundary & stuff - put it off another day. you can alwasy do anything "in awhile" - tomorrow scarlett- whatever.

hope i'm not pushy & ratty here. hang on- you're probbly doing better than you know- you just sound like you're forcing yourself to do things that are making you have total streeesssssssssss - mwd says never say again something you've said. i am trying to believe my h knows i hate the ow idea- (it was said long ago) i hate the WHOOOOOLE THING - when i don't do something "fond" i guess he knows - he does not ask why not? maybe that is true of your h too? maybe silence?

good luck with this- hope you find a tiny bit of peace of mind today...

xxoo