We're seeing a therapist together, and I'm also seeing her, the therapist, separately, to try to sort myself out. I am miserable. But do I really want to throw over 33 years of fellowship and friendship for the uncertain hope of a possible future passion? Or can we, together, find some minimal satisfaction for us both? Or should we break with the principles of a lifetime and the promises that we made in church, and look at an 'open marriage'? It's all out there. But it's not much fun! I find it very hard to believe that life could get better.
Me: 65, Wife: 67 Married/Together: 34 years! No children Wife 'came out' as lesbian in May 2013
We're seeing a therapist together, and I'm also seeing her, the therapist, separately, to try to sort myself out. I am miserable. But do I really want to throw over 33 years of fellowship and friendship for the uncertain hope of a possible future passion? Or can we, together, find some minimal satisfaction for us both? Or should we break with the principles of a lifetime and the promises that we made in church, and look at an 'open marriage'? It's all out there. But it's not much fun! I find it very hard to believe that life could get better.
Life will feel much better, the hues and contrasts greater with the addition of sex and intimacy. Of course being married you hope it's with your spouse.
Going back 1000's of years, they ahve had provisions for situations where the spouse just cannot copulate and everyone lives.
It's a tough decision, but it just may be better for you and your wife than throwing it all away.
Sex is such a wonderful part of life. I could not continue my marriage without it.
There may be wonderful things about your wife aside from sex that you enjoy and appreciate, but I guarantee you that another woman exists with the same attributes, but who *also* enjoys sex. So in that context, if living a sexless life is making you miserable, it seems the only right decision is to move on.
Sure, and that's what a lot of people do. And if I may make a lighthearted poke at your wording, to me my wife is more than just a package of attributes. So much so that I already know that even if I were to have a new wife who LOVED sex, I would be sad and wondering what I gave up if we were to say, visit some of the same vacation places I've been with my wife and the mother of my children.
It's a sort of situation that has made me appreciate why some people go for open marriage. I find it somewhat ironic that people who criticize open marriages have often had, or are currently having, affairs of their own, which are essentially "inferior" open marriages in the sense that they are dishonest instead of open and honest.
Sex is such a wonderful part of life. I could not continue my marriage without it.
There may be wonderful things about your wife aside from sex that you enjoy and appreciate, but I guarantee you that another woman exists with the same attributes, but who *also* enjoys sex. So in that context, if living a sexless life is making you miserable, it seems the only right decision is to move on.
Sounds good. Open marriage is better than cheating, and like you said many people who "cheat" won't even have the decency to at least open it up and make it fair. Perhaps another sexual partner could respark your wifes sexuality as well. But for now, I think you've waited long enough for a sex life, and you love your time with your wife, you should determine the best manner in which you want to open it up for you to have a sex life. It's possible with the right arrangement both of you will be happier than you've been in years.
Sure, and that's what a lot of people do. And if I may make a lighthearted poke at your wording, to me my wife is more than just a package of attributes. So much so that I already know that even if I were to have a new wife who LOVED sex, I would be sad and wondering what I gave up if we were to say, visit some of the same vacation places I've been with my wife and the mother of my children.
It's a sort of situation that has made me appreciate why some people go for open marriage. I find it somewhat ironic that people who criticize open marriages have often had, or are currently having, affairs of their own, which are essentially "inferior" open marriages in the sense that they are dishonest instead of open and honest.
Sure, and that's what a lot of people do. And if I may make a lighthearted poke at your wording, to me my wife is more than just a package of attributes. So much so that I already know that even if I were to have a new wife who LOVED sex, I would be sad and wondering what I gave up if we were to say, visit some of the same vacation places I've been with my wife and the mother of my children.
Your wife is making you miserable by withholding sex. If you were not miserable about it, you wouldn't be here. Unless it's a medical problem, that is a wholly selfish decision on her part. She is not fulfilling her marriage contract. Why do you have her on this pedestal?
If you had a new wife who you loved and adored, and you loved and adored you back, PLUS loved having sex with you, I don't believe you would be sad -- I think that's fear talking. If you had a fulfilling marriage that satisfied you sexually, instead of wondering what you gave up, I think you would KNOW that what you gave up was years of having a fulfilling sex life to go along with the rest of your marriage. You are giving that up right now.
Originally Posted By: ssmguy
It's a sort of situation that has made me appreciate why some people go for open marriage. I find it somewhat ironic that people who criticize open marriages have often had, or are currently having, affairs of their own, which are essentially "inferior" open marriages in the sense that they are dishonest instead of open and honest.
I listen to a radio call in show with a sex therapist. A lot of open marriage participants call in. What I have learned from listening to that is that open marriage can be fun for a while, but eventually it will break you down. You can't be in love with two people at the same time, and it's almost impossible to engage in sex repeatedly with people you are attracted to and not have your feelings for them escalate. If they are also married to someone else, you're in a double bind. It seems to me to be a recipe for short term gratification but longer term mental anguish.
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Sure, and that's what a lot of people do. And if I may make a lighthearted poke at your wording, to me my wife is more than just a package of attributes. So much so that I already know that even if I were to have a new wife who LOVED sex, I would be sad and wondering what I gave up if we were to say, visit some of the same vacation places I've been with my wife and the mother of my children.
Your wife is making you miserable by withholding sex. If you were not miserable about it, you wouldn't be here. Unless it's a medical problem, that is a wholly selfish decision on her part. She is not fulfilling her marriage contract. Why do you have her on this pedestal?
If you had a new wife who you loved and adored, and you loved and adored you back, PLUS loved having sex with you, I don't believe you would be sad -- I think that's fear talking. If you had a fulfilling marriage that satisfied you sexually, instead of wondering what you gave up, I think you would KNOW that what you gave up was years of having a fulfilling sex life to go along with the rest of your marriage. You are giving that up right now.
Originally Posted By: ssmguy
It's a sort of situation that has made me appreciate why some people go for open marriage. I find it somewhat ironic that people who criticize open marriages have often had, or are currently having, affairs of their own, which are essentially "inferior" open marriages in the sense that they are dishonest instead of open and honest.
I listen to a radio call in show with a sex therapist. A lot of open marriage participants call in. What I have learned from listening to that is that open marriage can be fun for a while, but eventually it will break you down. You can't be in love with two people at the same time, and it's almost impossible to engage in sex repeatedly with people you are attracted to and not have your feelings for them escalate. If they are also married to someone else, you're in a double bind. It seems to me to be a recipe for short term gratification but longer term mental anguish.
With this viewpoint, I see how it can lead to a great resentment. This thing which is so easy for the other to give, who wants to give, why won't the wife give it...
But then again, I thought this was the case where it wasn't going to happen because the wife was "gay"...
But even if she is "gay", she can physically accomidate the husband.
Don't know. Want to hear how this discussion goes.
With this viewpoint, I see how it can lead to a great resentment. This thing which is so easy for the other to give, who wants to give, why won't the wife give it...
But then again, I thought this was the case where it wasn't going to happen because the wife was "gay"...
But even if she is "gay", she can physically accomidate the husband.
Don't know. Want to hear how this discussion goes.
I have to tell you that "physical accomodation" is not the kind of sex I find exciting. It can also lead to resentment and even sexual aversion on the part of the wife, especially if the husband wants daily sex.
Your wife is making you miserable by withholding sex. If you were not miserable about it, you wouldn't be here. Unless it's a medical problem, that is a wholly selfish decision on her part. She is not fulfilling her marriage contract. Why do you have her on this pedestal?
I don't take her withholding personally. You have to look at it clinically -- loss of desire is often a clinical problem. If you look at it as love=sex, then you will feel resentment of course.
Quote:
If you had a new wife who you loved and adored, and you loved and adored you back, PLUS loved having sex with you, I don't believe you would be sad -- I think that's fear talking. If you had a fulfilling marriage that satisfied you sexually, instead of wondering what you gave up, I think you would KNOW that what you gave up was years of having a fulfilling sex life to go along with the rest of your marriage. You are giving that up right now.
You might be right.
Quote:
I listen to a radio call in show with a sex therapist. A lot of open marriage participants call in. What I have learned from listening to that is that open marriage can be fun for a while, but eventually it will break you down. You can't be in love with two people at the same time, and it's almost impossible to engage in sex repeatedly with people you are attracted to and not have your feelings for them escalate. If they are also married to someone else, you're in a double bind. It seems to me to be a recipe for short term gratification but longer term mental anguish.
This is one of those politically correct myths that are widely believed. I know personally of counterexamples to what you're saying. The problem is that people in quiet and happy open marriages have no interest in calling in or seeing a therapist. And in the overall statistics they show up as married. There is no checkbox on the IRS form for "openly married".
And as for "eventually breaking down" -- what kind of argument is that? Most marriages completely "break down" into divorce by the 12th year.
And as for not being able to be in love with two people at the same time, also absurd. It's a social ideal that's taught. Show me the brain circuits which make it impossible to be "in love" with more than one person at the same time, while you are still able to "love" more than one child at the same time. Really? Look, I believe it's a powerful social norm, and that is important to consider, but don't make it sound like biology. There are a lot of guys out there who are married and have a secret mistress for many years. But you don't see them on Dr. Phil. Not that I advocate that. Just making a point.
I like your counterarguments. I still don't think it's possible to be "in love" with two people at the same time. You love your kids, you're not "in love" with them. I'm defining "In Love" as "limerence".
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I like your counterarguments. I still don't think it's possible to be "in love" with two people at the same time. You love your kids, you're not "in love" with them. I'm defining "In Love" as "limerence".
"In love" is that butte fly's infatuation lust feeling like when you were a teenager.
I believe it's possible to be "in love" with more than one person, to have chemical reactions set off in the brain from more than one person, to be "in lust" with more than one person.
However when it comes time to put yourself on the line, to be responsible to a person, etc... Love. There's going to be actual levels of that.
And you can be "in lust" without "loving" the person, but you can love the act you do with them.
