One boundary that is being crossed by me that I am having a hard time getting my balls up to address is her texting "guy" friends and hiding it from me. I don't like it. I feel its disrespectful and rude
Read through others' sitches here, could be worse, and making a big deal out of it will probably make it MORE attractive to her if I understand where she's at right now, and justify it in her mind (PON is such a control freak, so insecure, I need this just to get a break from him <-- my W said this, btw, in the early days when I was trying to get her to stop her activities). It's like a teenager, you tell them they can't do something, sure enough they WILL be sure to do it! Gotta be independent from Mom/Dad! (well, I was like that at least when I was a teenager)
Let it go, PON, ignore it...give THAT to your higher power for sure, it is out of YOUR control...sorry.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks T. I really have high hopes for my recovery with my sponsor. I think it will help me detach even more. I really appreciate your feedback.
One thing I need to get stronger with is my kids. We have a summer house and the kids love going there. I feel W tries to control when I can take them down there and when I can. On her schedule etc....
Yes my W is on iphone, txt, and FB 24 x 7 after kids in bed. She is addicted to her phone. ironically this was one of her complaints about me (im a tech geek, had first smart phone )
Yes open MIC is the best thing I found. That and Alanon local support group.
ironically this was one of her complaints about me (im a tech geek, had first smart phone )
I am too (working myself out of it, my opinion of IM, texting, smart phones, vidchat, etc is FOREVER changed now due to this journey, and I contributed some to creating some of that tech back in the day, ugh)...funny how karma, the law of return, the 1st law of thermodynamics, etc, work, eh?
Hang in there, just work on YOU, leave W to herself as much as possible...as Cadet says, this is YOUR gift of time for YOU to fix/discover/RE-discover YOU.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
I am too (working myself out of it, my opinion of IM, texting, smart phones, vidchat, etc is FOREVER changed now due to this journey, and I contributed some to creating some of that tech back in the day, ugh)...funny how karma, the law of return, the 1st law of thermodynamics, etc, work, eh?
No different than the initial development on splitting the atom... electricity... trains... toasters... sliced bread...
All have their pros and cons... once Pandora is unleashed.
T my W has stated to me "you feel more like my Dad then my husband"
interestingly enough her dad moved away when she 9 and never came home
Consider this. When a MLCer / WAS states something like that in bold, italics...
They are not necessarily specifically saying their spouse is acting like their parent, although they could be.
Rather, they might simply be stating how they feel their spouse is acting like how they (the MLCer / WAS) would expect a parent to act, yet not actually have any bearing on the actual actions or words of the spouse being criticised. Subjective not objective.
What I mean by that is, if your W said, "Like my dad, you are telling me I can't go out tonight until I've finished my homework / housework" it would be relevant and valid vs "I thought my dad was mean to me and I think YOU are mean to me as though you are trying to tell me what I can and can not do, even though as an adult I don't need your permission so have no need to feel that way... yet I feel that way... so I understand that I am creating a self imposed paradigm on no specific thing you are actually doing or saying to me"
interestingly enough her dad moved away when she 9 and never came home
My W's dad SA'ed her, and then emotionally withdrew from her and the family (and most of life itself actually) somewhere around/during ages 7 through 13-14...
PON, I see you starting to connect the dots towards understanding, instead of just reacting...do you feel it?
Keep going, and go back into other sitches and archives here in mlc-land,,,I think you will get something more this time...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Gabby sorry you didn't offend me. I appreciate everyone's feedback. Do I feel like your pushing D a little yes. Then again I could say the same thing about 25 and others. WOW...I have argued in support of your wife for months... I supported all your efforts with your wife. I read positives into her acts of service when you complained she had not complimented you. I suggested you ask her to attend EE which you said she'd never do, but now I wonder if you even asked...
I supported your choice to go to EE (and to stay there, b/c you changed your mind about going at least three times before going, and DURING the workshop, you wanted to leave at least twice b/c you were afraid of something about her being alone with the kids, which she is during the day, every weekday...).
PON You have a problem making a choice and sticking with it. I supported you going to ACOA and Al Anon,
(but a part of me that thinks you are in the search for the Holy Grail. As if you do "X" or "Y", your wife will be warm and loving... even though you forget that even when she's "healthy", she is totally cold half of each month.
Something in you makes you second guess so much that NO approach is actually taken & stuck with, and you paralyze yourself with indecision and FEAR...
You and I communicate off line a lot. Based solely on what YOU TELL ME, and your frustration with your constant deeply felt anxiety and feelings of rejection, you gave me the distinct impression "nothing works" and you told me you were at the end of your rope.
you have said it more than once. I accepted that. I accepted your views that your wife was/is a stonewall you cannot climb over. And you repeatedly said (and I mean repeatedly)
that you "can't do another six months of this..." and "can't go thru silent treatment again, Not like last time".. when I asked what your biggest fear was, you said your "Biggest fear is this is starting all over...silent treatment and no affection and shutting me out." PON, what do you think anyone hearing that^^^ and reading those texts would suggest to you? I operate under the assumption that what you say is true.
That you really are at the end of your rope, that you were/are ready to file
-Which I retract b/c you say to me you are ready to file, you say it here, but then you come HERE and say you are not ready to file AND you suggest I or Gabbysmom are pushing you towards D...
I don't think you really hear what YOU say.
I accept what you say about your wife stonewalling and texting other men and that an EA is probably happening,
and that she MEANS it when SHE SAID the "M is dead, died long ago,
she's "only here for the kids" and that "No one is forcing YOU (PON) to stay in your home."
Those are shocking things to hear. For many of us, those are pretty much conversation enders.
When you mention money and assets as complicating factors, I balk. The assets are not relevant when it comes to emotional health & happiness OR your kid's welfare.
You're lucky there are assets, frankly. You think it's easier when people have only ONE asset? It's not. It means two people & children going into poverty, which is NOT a problem you have. So Don't make this worse than it already is. That's your fears making YOUR situation uniquely horrible when it's just not.
I believe in saving marriages when they can be saved. MWD herself says, not all can be.
I don't know if yours is one.
But I know you seem to be going in circles. You say you WERE a horrible h before your awakening, and I have to accept your version
but I also question it ---b/c your self esteem is pretty low. I think it's interesting that she was with you when you treated her that way but now after a year of postive changes, she's NOT??
So YES, keep it simple. Does not mean it feels simple, but it IS.
You are clearly NOT ready for a D, (though just last week, and two weeks earlier, you said you were.) SO
What's simple? What is simple is that,
if you have no reasonable belief that your spouse will change
AND
their present behavior is truly not acceptable to you,
then the solution IS simple. The solution is NOT EASY, but it's not complicated.
Offended. Nope not all. If I could stand up to my W like I did here though I would be much better off. Tomorrow is a big day for me.
Why is tomorrow a big day for you? B/C you are starting something new? Something that will fix all of your issues and then...hers??
You have started at least 3 or 4 approaches now, EE, ACOA and Al Anon and periodically "really detaching"...so now something new is ---what?
Meeting up with this guy YOU say "He was just like [you] 20 years ago"...really?
Well, you say he was a drunk, and you are not. And you said he was suicidal...So, are you saying you are suicidal PON? You have to tell us if that's what you mean.
Otherwise I didn't see anything you mentioned about him, that was like you. What's similar?
To me, it's perfectly fine to seek help any place you can. But if you spin about and think each new approach is THE ANSWER , and get your hopes/expectations up, then when its not, you get all upset.
You say divorce is complicated, and it is. But you know what, taking all these approaches is complicated too. Do your work. YES that's what EE, and the other programs were about.
PON, all this talk about "better communication" is sort of way off point.
You know what your communication problem is? It's FEAR OF YOUR W. Plain and simple. You talk here & to me, and at EE/ACOA/AL ANON, just fine. So now I think maybe You don't have a "communication" problem, per se. But you have a problem with FEAR and the anxieties that come from it.
T the last discussion I had with her about 2 months ago was so scripted and she called me out on it right there and then. I wasn't ready to talk to her. She literally said "I'm checking out of this session PON"
I recall that talk. You insisted on talking to her then. That you "could not ignore it" and You asked me then, as you are asking T and otherse now, for "lines" and "truth darts"
b/c down deep, you still think if you say just the right thing, it'll get thru to her AND change her! That somehow it's all about how you speak that will make all the difference...which I don't believe is true.
I think she has problems you cannot solve. Period.
This is why I ask so many questions so I don't do that again. Part of it was me trying to find the right words and dancing around the egg shells etc..
So everyone knows, PON in person, is NOT physically small or a weak scrawny man. He's good looking & in good shape. He looks like he can bench a lot.
My only suggestion to you PON, at this point, is to Stop living in fear.
Everything else gets easier when you do that.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Tomorrow is something big because I am doing my work 25. Going to EE isn't enough work. it was just the tip of the iceberg. It didn't fix me. How am I like this guy. We both have holes in our buckets trying tp patch them with material things or spouses love. We both have a touch sadness we couldn't seem to get rid of. Anxiety and codepency issues.
ACOA wasn't good for me. It was a pity party. Again this Alanon group is the closet thing to the EE experience yet.
Going to EE isn't doing my work. Going to EE then continuing to do my work is doing my work. I believe I found it with Alanon. I'm in my 3rd week and first 1:1 session tomorrow.
Hoping I didn't offend you 25.
Maybe just maybe last week I was emotional and wanted a D. That can happen right. Believe me the D word is in my head all day long
