Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers My Story -- Heart Hurting

Hello everyone. I am new to the community and new -- relatively -- to the heartache and pain that everyone is going through. I just received my books (DB and TDR) today in the mail and look forward to reading them and working on the steps that will hopefully bring my marriage back.

Being new to this I have made some mistakes along the way, but I also have seen in reading through a few threads that that's par for the course. And I also know it's going to be a long, painful process, but that it can be done.

The details --

My W and I have been married nearly 15 years -- actually having anniversary next week, though I doubt there will be any celebrating given where she is right now -- and together for 17. Two kids, on balance a pretty good union -- a few missteps here and there, but who doesn't have that, right?

Anyway, about three years ago we decided to enter the world of swinging, and had fun with it. That led to a few more things, including her experimenting with some fetish things and me getting curious about polyamory. Without going into a ton of detail, it happened that I found someone I liked and wanted to cultivate a "dating" relationship with. We went out a couple of times and had fun, and there was sex involved. This is where the problems started (or rather, where things imploded). We had a few simple rules we agreed to follow --

1. The other partner had to know who you were with and where you would be.
2. You had to practice safe sex.
3. You had to make sure you weren't bringing any drama into our home.

My W knew the first one, and neither of us really knew that the lady was nutty, so there was no way to know number three fully. Number two is the rule that was broken ... I had a condom and wore it, but before everything finished it came off inside of her. I should have stopped, and even asked her if we should continue, and she said "yes, it's fine.' (We both are fixed, and she said she had been tested and didn't have anything). I know I SHOULD have walked away right then and there but didn't, so I broke what many would consider the most important of our rules.

On the drive home I wondered what I would tell my wife -- I did plan to tell her. She was asleep when I got home, and bonehead that I am I decided to let her sleep. I left for work in the morning before she got up, so didn't tell her then, either. My plan was to tell her that night, in person, when the kids were gone. Little did I know that the OW put together an email and sent it to the man my wife has been "experimenting" with from the fetish site (with my complete blessing). So now he's in the middle, and he passes it on to my wife. Needless to say, armageddon broke out shortly afterward. She was mad not only that I broke our big rule, but that I also didn't have the respect and decency to tell her about the minute I got home. Guilty as charged, I'm afraid. I should note that it's not the first time I have been dishonest with/hidden something from her, though this one had no malicious intent. Earlier in our marriage I did a little online sports gambling and wasn't up front about it, and I also set up an online profile on a dating website to talk to women (though that's all it was, talk). It was during a period when my wife was fatigued, wasn't interested in sex and did nothing about it. We later found out she had a thyroid issue, but at the time she wasn't doing anything about it so I went to the Internet to chat with some ladies.

This event happened on March 14th, and things have been swirling ever since. There have been arguments, a few nice days, a lot of tears, and fear as to what might be ahead. I've seen the scenarios where we are no longer together, and I don't like them. I haven't valued our marriage the way I should have, and now it's coming back to bite me in the backside. I am prepared to take any vitriol people might want to toss my way.

I have made some conciliatory gestures, including initiating marriage counseling, giving her access to my screen names and passwords for my banking, emails and Facebook and taking every single woman out of my phone contacts, even ones that have been mutual friends, just so there is no hint of impropriety. I also apologized to her mother and told my family about it as well, even though I don't think it's really any of their business. We also sat the kids down and told them we were "having some problems that we're working through, but there may have to be some time away."

I was doing things wrong until recently -- saying I loved her in texts, trying to make romantic gestures. Basically pushing and pressuring. I do feel horrible about it and really hope to get my marriage back.

I have started the process of detaching -- today as a matter of fact. I did not initiate any texts to her, other than one involving our kids. When she talked about separation I listened instead of rejecting it. And I've also started to GAL (as you folks call it around here), going running four to five nights a week, and planning to save a night for myself as well as meeting up with a longtime male friend to go do whatever. I have also resisted saying "I love you" for three days, and I stopped making her morning coffee as of today (don't know if that last one counts, really).

The W has said that she's not sure she wants to stay in the marriage, which makes me very sad. On balance we've had many more good times than bad, and until this latest incident there really weren't many knock down drag out disagreements. But it's like she's suddenly shut down. She commented last week "I'm just tired of all of it." I'm hoping since we're just three months in that things can turn around -- but have figured out that even if they don't I am preparing myself to be the best me I can be.

One question about detaching, and also 180s -- is detaching specific to the H-W dynamic, or everything involved? We're supposed to stay communicative when it comes to the kids and shared finances, correct? As far as 180s -- I do probably 50 percent of the household chores, so to stop that would actually be a bad idea, right? If we separate it would be obvious but as long as I am living at home I need to chip in for the general welfare and efficiency of our living space, right?

I'm sorry if this was rambling, but it is my first time posting. I will get better at it, I promise -- just as I will get better with my situation.

I guess in a nutshell I'm the one who did the damage, yet the one who most wants to stay in the marriage. We do have a joint counseling session next week, and then a family vacation to the East Coast, which she is now not going to be a part of. It should be a good test for me ... I will text her when the kids and I get to our hotel, and when we're checking out. But nothing else. And I will let the kids talk to her on a nightly basis to tell her about their day, but will only talk to her if she asks.

For what it's worth, things aren't all that bad in the house right now -- we don't have a ton of conversation, but there isn't a lot of arguing, either.

I suggest you talk to one of the DB coaches that works with couples that are in polyamourous relationships. It is a bit more complicated. When you call here, mention this post.
Take good care.
Karen

Good idea!

Might be the best use of your resources to save your marriage.

Thanks, I will look into doing that.

In the meantime, does anyone have any suggestions/feedback on my situation and what I'm doing? Which of the two books would you recommend I read first?

HBH, if your M can be saved, will you desire to remain polyamorous?

If you decide that maybe you don't want to have other intimate Rs, are you willing to accept that your W may wish it, and that would be OK with you?

Trust can easily be broken. What makes trust in a poly M different than trust in a non-poly M? Nothing.

I'm saying only that trust is trust, and you broke trust. At least, according to your W.

There are certainly inherent risks in a poly M and it can often be a test of trust.

Here's where the questions begin in that regard.

These are slightly rhetorical. In entering the poly-M, did your W not understand that there are risks? In breaking trust, from a strictly objective basis, in one single incident, is that enough of a reason for your W to be unsure she wants to remain M? Was there an agreement about the need for immediate disclosure regarding the poly-pact discussed?

I agree a DB coach is always a good idea, and agree that if you can, it will be helpful for you.

That said, if this is an objective issue of your W using one (certainly valid) break in trust as a reason to end the M, then I would submit that it is very likely your W has other things going on in her mind that is causing her to question the M.

Detach specifically relating your W. You will have to decide whether you wish to remain in an open M.

Seek out a member by the name of Cianna. Her link is here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2354948

She is also in an open M with some added twists, but the two of you certainly have things in common and her M has been opened and closed a few times, depending on certain circumstances. Their M has been open on and off over 10 years, I believe.

Stay in the home and continue to keep things pleasant with your W and also be sure to continue to co-parent and comm regarding the kids as well as financial.

Yes, don't 180 by not doing things that are positive. No longer helping around the home would not be positive, keep doing housework.

What you should be focusing on is working on trust, which may be MUCH MORE than just broken trust in the "incident". Generally (and again, I want to assert this is OBJECTIVELY; even considering the assumed severity of risk of the incident) trust doesn't end with just one incident. It is broken over time. There is likely other things around trust that might be an issue.

Can you think of anything else that might have reduced your W's trust in you?

You do want to look at 180s that can help rebuild trust, at the very least.

I would not want to remain polyamorous, but I believe she would. I know the gentleman (and his wife) and like both of them, so don't believe there would be any issues with her continuing along that path.

The other things I mentioned in my initial post -- not telling her about things like the online betting and creating profile on dating sites -- are the trust issues I messed up with before. To that end I've become an open book as far as emails, banking, Facebook is concerned.

I didn't always used to tell her where I was going when I went out ... or if I did it might not be who I said I was going with. Maybe taking pics of my male friends when we're out (at least initially) would help with the trust thing?

Kaffe pointed me to your post.. our history is similar in time frames. My H and I have been together 18 years, our 15 wedding anniversary is in Sept.

The big difference for us is that our open R began the day we met. He introduced me into the world of swinging, and we came to poly together. We were the couple that talked about EVERYTHING. We always had our rules, and they changed over the years.. but, never with out long conversations about what would happen if they were broken.

Yes, you broke a cardinal rule. As for BDing, its fhe same as mono Ms. I can tell you that when my H broke our cardinal rule of unprotected sex, it was work to resolve it... but we always did.

Kaffe asked the most imprtant question; what do you want your M structure to look like if you can reconcile? What does she want? Are you truthfully going to be able to be happy with that? My H has chosen a mono relationship with his most recent GF. I am absolutely happy with a mono R, and am not dating at all. Its becoming clear that my M is over, but there is alot more damage done at rhis point than where you are at.

I can tell you, BE CAREFUL WITH COUNSELING. You must ensure that your C is supportive of poly Rs, as well as understands them. If you both decide thats not what you want, thats ok too, but a C that cant navigate that will make it a requirement.

Transpaerancy is important after breaking the trust. However, it has to go both ways. You will develop resentment of her if you dont feel she is being open with you.

There are a lot of people who dont fully understand open Rs. They think they can do it, and even get involved in it believing its all rainbows and sunshine. Obviously, its not, and its less about sex than it is about having real Rs with more than one person. Everyone must get along and have the "core" relationships health as a priority.

At one time I had actually come up with a theory on the whole thing... Everyone has a sexual orientation. I also believe that we are hardwired with Relationship Orientations. Some are strict Mono. Cant fathom even looking at another person in a nonplatonic way. Then there are the Dabblers. They will flirt, maybe even kiss.. nothing more.. The Swingers, or Players. They will have recreational sex with others, rarely repeat partners, and do not ever develop feelings for any other than their S. Then there are Poly. Poly people are really most happy with more than one R. Most poly people feel restricted and caged when they are in mono Rs. Like sexualy orientation, there are grey areas in between as well. I techinically am a Poly Gay. However, with my husband.. I am and can be mono het. I believe my husband to be VERY Poly Het. In all the years Ive been with him, when we close to resolve issues, he starts to become antsy, irritable. I know that he is also frustrated by societys view on Poly, and I think he may be choosing a Mono Het R now because he thinks it will be easier.

My cardinal mistake over the years was demanding that he break off his Rs to resolve our issues. It bred resentment over the years. It was always a rule, that we each had "veto power". If we felt the others Rs was threatening ours or their M, it would end. We didnt fully comprehend the resentment it would breed.

Feel free to ask questions. We had always thought we had this thing nailed down... I was even writing a book on it. However, the book now will likely be "What NOT to do." LOL

Cianna, thanks for responding. A lot of wisdom there.

I am perfectly fine with her staying in a poly R ... the guy is married, and she's friends with the wife too. He will never leave his wife because she donated a kidney to him, so they are quite literally bonded. She does it because it's part of our local fetish scene, and that's not stuff I am into.

I didn't research poly enough, and also didn't choose my intended R carefully enough, either. I don't want to continue in poly, or as a swinger. I want to be strictly with my wife. I have no problem with her continuing in poly, as she's never given me reason to think anything was fishy.

Our counselor has dealt with swingers/poly people before and is completely non-judgemental. So maybe we're lucky.

I would like my marriage structure to be loving, non pressuring, understanding, and any dreams, hopes or desires we have we would share with each other. Open lines of communication at all times. I think we can get that back ... right now I don't think she believes it, which is why I'm working at DBing.

Thanks again for checking in. Sounds like you have your hands full with the H.

Thanks for getting here and giving HBH your insight, Cianna.

HBH, Cianna spoke to something else that I was thinking about. Often, from my understanding, swinging "groups" have their own code. As Cianna mentioned, there's often a strong commitment to upholding each couples individual relationship OVER AND ABOVE that of the groups interests.

That said, a possible reason your partner passed the info on to your W's partner would be related to that. IOW, if you and your W are falling off, the group could actually drop the two of you from their mix and your partner was making the "safe sex" issue an open issue amongst the group, not just your W's partner.

Hope that makes sense.

IOW, even if you and your W did not have a "rule" regarding the immediate need to disclose issues such as this, you have likely learned that it IS LIKELY REALLY IMPORTANT to make info like that available to your W (and the group) as quickly as possible.