Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers How to proceed with angry, almost-walkaway H?

Hi, I'm thankful to have discovered DR and forum in my effort to save my marriage. At the same time, I'm also reading 5LL, His Needs Her Needs -- all of which are very eye opening. But I can't find advice for to a few areas that trouble me… Please, if anyone can offer some guidance, I'll be grateful.

1. His anger
My H has always been a gentle, patient, easy-going person, but he's emotionally repressed (due his childhood I think -- neglected by parents; he felt that he was a mistake). Through the years, I've noticed that he doesn't like to talk about feelings; will listen to me when I talk about my pain/feelings but shows zero empathy; bottles up his negative feelings, especially anger.

Since BD in March, we've made progress in repairing our M (see background below), but I've noticed that he's become impatient and prone to angry outbursts -- eg If I ask him to repeat what he'd said because I didn't catch it the first time round; or if I don't do what he wants me to do. This is very, very unlike him. He used to be all about pleasing me, and will willingly go along with my wishes -- I now realise that he'd probably sacrificed his "wants" all along to avoid conflict.

How do I deal with his anger? I'm guessing the resentment he'd repressed over the last year is surfacing. This is his revenge I suppose. I feel hurt and helpless. When he lashes out at me, I stay calm and say "ok" and bend to his will (whereas the old me will bristle and question his attitude and tone). Is this considered a 180? I'm uncomfortable being such a doormat, and I don't want to teach him that it's ok to treat me like this. Can I calmly ask him to check his tone or will it backfire on me???

2. He wants independence
At this point, H is willing to try even though he's scared and uncertain whether we can work things out. I sense that he's not fully committed to reconciliation. During one of the dialogues for Retrouvaille, he wrote that the obstacle to commitment is his need to be alone and be independent (to go anywhere he wants to, see anyone he wants to, without telling me).

I now think he felt controlled to a certain extent in our M (that he can't do something if I don't let him) even though I have NO intention of controlling him at all. Eg: he recently revealed that if I comment that a particular item is expensive, he'll feel that he's not allowed to buy it. I was silently horrified that such comments have such an effect on him.

What do I do to show him that he has space to be himself in our M? And that I'll still love him even if he does things I wouldn't do? My T said he's wanting to "grow up" and make decisions for himself. I've no problems with that. The only thing I'm afraid of is him pursuing other women. Does anyone know of any resources I can read up on? Is anyone going through something similar in their M?

3. Some background
On BD day (in March), H told me he wants a D, started to pack his bags and almost walked away. He said he'd lost his passion for me, I won't change, marriage was a mistake etc. I had no idea that some of the things I'd said (criticisms) had hurt him so deeply and that he was THAT unhappy in our R. Through shock and tears, I persuaded him to stay and give our M a chance. He agreed (reluctantly).

To make a long story short, I've been frustrated in my M over the last two years because I was going through a rough patch in my career and yearned for emotional support from H. He's a good partner in many ways and takes good care of me physically, but he does not have empathy for what I was going through. He tends to block off feelings (both his and others'). Some of that frustration and stress spilled over to our daily interactions.

Two months before BD, there was a near EA -- he became infatuated with an ex-colleague after talking to her on her last day at work, and had "pursued" her over text messages. I found out a few days after BD and calmly confronted him and requested him to stop contact. He again agreed (reluctantly). But he felt no remorse for pursuing her.

Since then, I've asked him to fill out the "love busters" questionnaire and have been doing 180s on his complaints: I was critical and sometimes made selfish demands; not enough affection, appreciation, sex etc. He feels that he can't meet my expectations, that he's not good enough.

We've gone through through the Retrouvaille weekend and are still in the post sessions. I'm thankful that we can talk, laugh, date and generally enjoy each other's company most of the time. Recently, he told me that he's noticed the changes in me, but he still feels scared -- he asked me not to hug/kiss/touch him. Not yet.

How do I meet his top 2 needs for affection and sexual fulfillment when right now he doesn't want me to touch him??

^

Hi maji, sorry you find yourself in this situation, you will find the awesome members here will support you in your goals.

1. Regarding his anger, the best you can do is work on emotionally detaching from his words and actions. Try to understand that, even though the things he says or does may feel hurtful, it is likely that he does not mean to hurt you, rather he is venting and lashing out and you are the unfortunate target.

If it is at a point where you can not deal with his outbursts, do what you can to remove yourself from that situation as quickly as possible. This would be your boundary, that you will not allow yourself to be subject to his angry outbursts, and time will eventually settle things down. Do this consistently for a long enough period of time, and he will eventually stop doing this, or at least do it much less frequently.

That does not mean leaving for a week to live elsewhere, it means moving to a different room or leaving the house to go for a walk or doing something for a few minutes or a few hours.

2. Independence is another way of saying "space" or "no pressure". While some of the things he said are possibly valid, and therefore consider those things and do 180s on them, if possible, he could otherwise simply be trying to convey that he needs / wants time to think and is not able to make certain decisions right now.

Give him that space. Learn to GAL as much as possible and try to refrain from interacting with him that would require him to make deep decisions at this time. It is possible that all he can deal with right now, is what he will wear in the morning and what he will eat for lunch.

~~~~

Your H could be at the beginnings of a transition or MLC. While there is nothing you could do to stop it (and you don't want to stop it, it could happen worse at a later time if not allowed to play out now), you certainly can "get out of the way" so that he does not hit the crises as hard as some others might.

Time and space will help you greatly through this period. GAL, detach, and consider any 180s or other personal growth you might do at this time, for yourself, regardless of whether your M is saved.

As ironic as it seems, this could be a gift for YOU. Take this opportunity for your own journey of growth and betterment.

Keep posting and others will be along to support you. You are on moderation and it may take a dozen or so approved posts from you before your posts show up immediately.

Even if it is to vent or journal and of course, ask any questions that you need.

Thanks very much, Kaffe Diem, for taking time to respond in such a detailed way. I really appreciate your support.

I managed to talk to him last week about how his angry outbursts were hurting me, and I calmly requested that he shows me more respect. Oddly enough, he took it well, and there hasn't been a single angry episode since then. It was as if the angry monster left him... I can't figure it out... but I ain't complaining! If it happens again, I'll take your advice and remove myself from the room.

We just came back from a three-week trip, during which I discovered (on his work computer) emails between him and the OW. They never did stop contacting each other, so by now it's become a full blown EA. No wonder he grew more and more distant and cold in the last month. I'm still in pieces... and needing advice on what to do about this. Will write more soon.

It's interesting that you brought up MLC... At times, I too wondered if that a possibility. H got promoted to Deputy Head recently but was utterly unhappy about it -- he thinks he deserves to be Head, not just deputy... it somehow makes him feel "not good enough". (similar to how he feels "not good enough" in our M.) He's also paying more attention to his appearance (he was a shave once a week guy before). Hmm.. I'll go read up on some MLC resources.

I'm trying my best to give H "space" and avoid putting pressure on him (working on GAL).
My C thinks he wants to "grow up"… She suggests that I let him have one night off every week to do whatever he wants (without telling me). I don't know… he'll probably talk to OW the whole night.

I know I shouldn't "pursue" him but I took a few risks in the last month:

5 May: Retrouvaille post session focused on sex. This is a major issue for us because we've been in a sexless marriage for a long time (i wanted to but it's physically painful due to memories of trauma with ex-BF). For some reason, we never talked about it. He must have felt so rejected. That night, I told him that I actually enjoyed the way he touched me and I didn't mean to reject him; I said that he can help me overcome my problem if we go to therapy together. He said "ok" (previously, he didn't want to go to MC). I asked "Let's try again?" but he said "Slowly…" (He still feels scared / does not want me to touch him.) Is this a small breakthrough? Should I not have brought it up at all???

A few days later, he contributed to our joint account again (after 2 months of not doing so).

End-May: We went on a 3-week trip -- most of it is a work trip for him but we planned extra days to sight-see. I was hesitant to go (wanted to give him "space") but he wanted me to join him. Much of the trip went well although he was distant. On days he was at work, I was happy to do things on my own (GAL). When he came back from meetings, he brought back things that he knew I'd like, eg desserts. We chat and laugh. However, when we were watching sunsets or at romantic restaurants, I sensed that he'd rather be with OW.

It's a struggle to show happiness and contentment when he's so standoffish… I need to detach more.

Last week of our trip: I discovered that he didn't stop contacting OW as promised. It's now a long-distance EA. I stumbled across emails when using his work computer on our trip. Sitting across from him in the hotel room, reading those emails, struggling to not let my anguish and pain show, was the single hardest thing I've ever done…

The gist of their relationship over the last 2 months:

H: I promised my wife I'd stop contacting you… but I don't really want to. It'll only be for awhile.
OW: I'm sorry you're having problems in your marriage. I hope you'll work it out.
H: For the first time since I set foot in this country, I found a friend I can open up to.
OW: I'm dating someone…but… I feel protected by you. What if I told you I miss you…
- - - -
H: I'm falling in love with you.
OW: I'm surprised and flattered. We hardly interacted while I was at the company.
H: It was love at first sight. You're smart, beautiful, patient, sexy, naughty.
OW: Are you sure you will have the same feelings after you know more about me? Don't you think we should get to know each other first?
- - - -
OW: Maybe we should have kept the promises we made (to stop). But it's hard to stop writing, hard to stop knowing more about you every day.
H: Thinking about you is what keeps me going every day. Is it wrong? To me, NO, it’s not wrong. Should I stop doing it? I can’t and I won’t.
OW: Since it's so difficult for you to stop writing, we shall just be happy and enjoy every single moment we share.
- - - - -
H: I dream of a future with you… I want us to grow old together.
OW: Waiting for your emails and phone calls has become a part of my daily life. But I'm confused about us, about where I stand in all of this. I'm confused about your marriage. There're lots of uncertainties.
H: I'm sorry for confusing you. I'll try to make it clear to you in the near future.
OW: What are your plans?
H: One step at a time. I want to fly to <where you are> to see you in the next few months. Then we'll nurture the relationship at your pace.
- - - -
H: I'm making a list of places to take you on a bikini holiday.
OW: I can be your PA. My job duties will be: sleep well, eat well, play well, travel well within your means. Job scope: show my pretty face, killer smile and sexy body to you whenever you need me.
- - - - -
OW: I feel a special bond between us, a chemistry. But this is wrong. Are you sure you don't want to work on your marriage?
H: Your heart is telling you something, just as my heart is telling me something. Please don’t let go of it. I think that something special can come out of it with time, something that I would like to explore with you together.

Wow, that's a terrible development. Your H is doing some classic cake-eating- he's actively engaging in an EA that he apparently plans on pushing to a PA while also pretending to be working on the M with you. You're in a tough spot because DB'ing discourages snooping and confrontation, so what do you do with this info? I would take it as a strong indication that he's not invested in saving the M, he's just trying to keep you on the back burner while he works on a new R. I would stop all pursuit and all efforts to "save" the M for now. You've got to work on yourself and leave him to his craziness. Give him time and space.

I'm new here...so new this is my first post! First thing this morning I read your thread &i was utterly horrified FOR YOU over the texts between your H & the OW. I know snooping is bad, but no one should have to see that.

I wanted you to know I cried for you, for the hurt I imagine you are enduring. I don't understand how these new people come along & become SO important, so quickly...it frustrates me.

I just wanted you to know that people care about your hurt, and are rooting for you...even when you don't realize it.

Take care of yourself & try to do something special today that will make YOU feel a little better (go for a walk at sunset, get a scoop of icecream, pick flowers for a vase, buy a new scented soap for your bath, anything!) Hugs!!

Thanks for your input, AnotherStander. It does look like cake-eating, doesn't it? Sigh...

I guess the best case scenario: He's confused. He's genuine in wanting to give T a shot after our talk on 5 May. Why else would he contribute to our joint account again (he didn't tell me; I checked. It was a large sum). But he doesn't want to give up OW in case our M doesn't work out.

And the worst case scenario: He has been "going through the motions", waiting for me to accept the fact that he's already gone.

But here's the twist to the story: OW is out of the picture now (next post).

End-May: He called OW during our trip. She asked about me and he admitted that I was travelling with him. Feeling betrayed, she sent him a goodbye email.

OW: In these 3 months, we've been through many ups and downs. There were several times we should have already said goodbye. I'm not in the right position. I should have disappeared. Goodbye.
H: I'm sorry to put you through this roller coaster. Travelling with her doesn't change how I feel for you. Right now, I am only waiting for the time to do what I want to do.
OW: Okay…
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I was in pieces… Reading the emails, I sensed that OW is very needy and craves the attention and support from H -- She's all alone working in a foreign country. But she's at least mature enough to step back every so often to say "This is wrong".

So in desperation, I texted OW and asked her to stop contacting H. She replied that she'd decided to stop anyway. Afterwards, I regretted contacting her. In time, H may realise for himself that she's not for him (or he may not), but I prevented him from going on that journey… Now I won't know if he's with me because he WANTS to be with me.

Those few days after her goodbye were torture. Every fiber of my being was in pain but I had to pretend that I didn't know. As for him, I've never seen him look more miserable.

What should I do now??

1. Why does DB discourage confrontation? Could someone please explain? Should I continue to pretend that I don't know? If the EA resumes, should I expose them? I came across advice (eg Allen from here, Dr Harvey of MB) that are pro-exposure.

2. I'm utterly torn between the Retrouvaille method (more communication, connection) and DB (no R talk, more space). On one hand, the Retrouvaille dialogues are useful (it gives me a chance to "hear" him out -- he's said many times that I don't listen to him). But dialogues (and the "discussions" that sometimes follow) go against the concept of giving him space. Does anyone have experience with doing the dialogues while DB-ing?

3. His attitude
We have good days but he's been increasingly distant and indifferent. For example:
Me: What would you like to do tomorrow (Sunday)? / or What shall we have for dinner?
H: Don't know. Whatever. You decide. (tone = curt, gruff, couldn't care less)

How do I respond to this attitude? So far I've replied sweetly with suggestions "How about abc…", after all, I'm supposed to show nothing but happiness and contentment, right? Gosh, it's tough to swallow. Sometimes I sense that he doesn't want to spend time with me, but when I ask him if he'd rather be alone, he says "no". Argh… somebody, help me.

4. At this point, I'm very tempted to ask for a short separation, so that he'll hopefully miss me and change his attitude. But I know I shouldn't make that move.

5. As long as the WAS stays home, how can I give him adequate SPACE?
I'm struggling to think of ways to give him space but my mind draws a blank. If I suddenly do things on my own, spend weekends without him, won't I be neglecting him ("more of the same")? Any ideas, anyone? We have so many common interests, it seems odd, almost rude, not to ask him join in my activities…