Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again I am a NICE shark, not a mindless eating machine.

you been awfully quiet...hope your ok

i know there is alot to process here and you probably need the down time...just wanting you to know i was thinking about you

Hey Betsey!
I have been thinking about you all weekend.
I also want to apologize for something.
Conflict is very scary to me, and sometimes I am just not confident enough to jump into a big discussion unless I am sure that I have every single fact. I don't feel that way (that I have a lot of facts) in your sitch, as I came along late in the game.
Yeah, I said I respected the post from Cycler, as it was thought provoking. I stand by that statement, meaning that it had the potential to bring about a lot of discussion. And, I do know that it is not easy to go against the crowd. However, I do have to say that none of us have all the answers, particularly never having met your H at all. All we can do is toss out suggestions and offer support where needed. Being a "well meaning friend" is not such a bad thing, so I can't quite understand the negative connotation to it.
So, I apologize for my first post.
It is not what I felt, and I hate not being true to myself and to you.
I was just certain that I did not have enough info, and that I couldn't possibly make sense.
After reading through your reply from yesterday (Betsey, that has affected me as nothing here ever has), I have decided that there is no shame in being one of your "well meaning friends." I don't claim to know everything, (hell, I don't even clain to know much!), but I do know that I see that it is only fair to offer suggestions, not accusations.
I wish I would have said that.

Take Care, Betsey. If you ever need anything that I can help you with, please get my e-mail address from Meredith. It is not one that I want to post here.

Hope you can understand what I'm trying to say! I sometimes feel as if I just "get" you and Meredith so well, so it must be the same the other way around, no? I can't always count on you guys to read between the lines though.

I want to thank Cycler for posting what she did. I haven’t read many of the replies yet, because I want to focus on the first post by Cycler. I really am grateful that she brought these points to light. Not because I agree with them, strongly the opposite, but because it seems that there are a few concepts that have been circulating on my, Pam’s and Betsey’s thread that need some clarification.

Fish are FRIENDS, not food. This has been the theme of Betsey’s past threads, and many other threads have taken the analogy as well, mine included. As we type out the situations in the ‘fish/shark’ likeness we have tended to call a few things ‘fish food’. Please keep in mind - fish food isn’t intended to be a derogatory term! Fish and sharks are different species…the fish handles conflict by running and the shark handles it by eating the fish. While both methods work fine for us, they don’t work for a fish and a shark living together in harmony. Neither method is acceptable for a fish and shark to swim as one. We aren’t considering fish to be subordinates of sharks, we are considering what would happen if we changed our shark behavior in hopes of bring the fish closer to us rather than scaring them away. The creative names that have come up are only to make the threads readable, to inspire others to laugh with us rather than consider limbo land one of dark gloom and shadows. NOT to put the fish down, NOT to hold the control in our own teeth and NOT to blast the fish’s ego. The fish does have many attributes the shark does not, and we try to recognize those.

Passive-Aggressive Behaviors. Through the threads many of us have been addressing some of the PA behaviors of our spouses. If you haven’t lived with a PA spouse, you will find it very difficult to relate to the frustrations and difficulties that one faces while living with one. Just like I thought ADD was a disease that had to be easy to manage – until I married a person with ADD. That said, we vent our frustrations about the PA behaviors here, rather than to our spouses. Not to put them down, but to VENT it out.

I also want to recap the PA behaviors that are mainly covered. A PA person will agree to do something (at times, volunteer for it without being asked) because they think that is what you want them to do. Then, when the time comes to do it – they back out. They had no intention of doing it in the first place; they just live in the moment and said what they thought we wanted to hear. Then their actions are based solely on what they want to do. Another common PA behavior is to relinquish control to their partner, then become resentful when their partner takes that control.

I hope now you see the difference between true passive-aggressive behaviors and what Betsey did with her H. If she were exhibiting PA behavior when she told her husband she would take the girls on Sunday, she would have said it without doing it. Uh, she did it…for those wondering. It also isn’t passive-aggressive to not tell someone everything that you are feeling. We call that smart.

I want you all to look at Betsey’s progress and your own. I call it progress not because I am a ‘well-meaning friend who is masking the issues’. I call it progress because her spouse is now responding to her. By controlling her responses to him, she is showing her fish that he can be around her and she will not eat him and it is working. This isn’t an overnight process…it is a long journey. Not one person has all of the answers, but I think you will all agree that Betsey’s perception in our situations has really helped steer us toward PROGRESS.

I am a self-admitted shark. I don’t mind conflict; in fact, I have been guilty of creating it in the past. I would never mask an issue, because I feel that wouldn’t be beneficial to anyone. Pam, I am glad that you posted what you did about having facts straight before speaking out - it is a lesson that should be learned by all of us, and it could have saved a lot of PMA this weekend.

Betsey, GO YOU!!!! We're going to tell you that in person soon...right Pam? Or are you Louise?

Bets and Ocean buddies,

Betsey,
I wanted to chime in and give Betsey a hug {{{{{Betsey}}}}}

I will have to change my Nemo name and admit that I am a shark, Although living in my current aquarium has made me a little bit "bubbles".

For my sanity I had to stop psycho-analyzing my W. I have come here and gotten excellent insight into her thoughts and actions from everyone here. It seemed to me that by thinking about what she was thinking all day and concentrating so much on our next interaction that I was putting so much pressure on myself.

I honestly feel that she could sense that pressure when we spoke and it scared her. So to make it easier on myself and her I just stopped.

In terms of DB'ing I am not very active. I'm really just staying as busy as possible and trying not to make things worse. Kind of like the patriots, run the ball and minimize mistakes.

Is it working? I dont know. I feel much better and my relationship with the kids is the best its ever been.

Betsey I feel the same way that you do. I just want someone to thank me or to consider that maybe Daddy doesnt want to watch cartoons tonight. I realize that this kind of thanks is about twenty years away so I may as well forget about it.

Betsy I want to thank you, thank you for helping me. thank you for helping so many other people here. Thank you for fighting to save your marriage when everything in the world seems to be trying to tear it apart.

Thank your for taking care of everyone else, worrying about their welfare, feeding your husband when he really doesnt deserve to have a woman cooked meal.

Your a hell of a woman Betsey and a man would be lucky to have you care for him.

I dont know if my DB path is right for anyone else but me, but you are tearing yourself apart by worrying about his reactions. How about for a few weeks you get his thoughts out of your head and REALLY take care of yourself.

We know that most of his decision is coming from inside him, our actions help but he knows where you stand. He can see the changes you made, its all up to him now.

thats just my two cents, you are a better db'r than me and have helped me so much I hate to see you hurting.

Cycler, I dont agree with all of your points but I think that you are right in being a little bit critical, we all need that from time to time.

Take care everyone.
Mike, Bubbles the Shark?

Hello everyone.

I want to thank everyone who has come by and given me the cyber hugs. I really do appreciate it. I will say that although my PMA is suffering monumentally, I am okay and just trying to navigate through these murky waters.

I appreciate the insight from everyone.

I have some news to report here. While I really need to take a break from this BB for a bit, I want you to know that I am okay. I had a very close call to eating fish yesterday. The anger that erupted was incredible and I almost found myself losing complete control with Mr. W.

Fortunately, the after effects of Saturday's posts still had my stomach upset. D6 has not been feeling well, so she crawled in bed with me and slept for a few hours (virtually unheard of), whereas D9 crawled into her fort underneath D6's bed and slept longer.

I managed to give Mr. W. a weak goodbye with a comment about his tournament that might make him think about me. Thanks, Linda. I figured that if Linda thought I don't like bowling, I better clear this up. I do! Our first date was spent at a bowling alley--I was in a league and he came to watch me.

We spent some considerable time in them, and he managed to enter some tournaments as well. After he and his buddy finished, we would head to the bar and play Liar's Dice. My comment yesterday was about Liar's Dice, and it did make him smile.

He called me after he finished. I was awake but laying in bed next to D6. I managed to have a conversation with him in a sober voice. It was all I could do to maintain some self control. Then we hung up.

I took the girls out to eat in the middle of a blasted snowstorm. It was good to get out and eat--my PBJ from Saturday had come up that afternoon, and all that was left on Sunday was bile. I discovered that I was hungry. Thank goodness the migraine had disappeared.

This morning, I felt that I could no longer hold any of my emotions in. I dropped D9 off at school, and put the earplug back in and called Mr. W. I asked him to shut his door and he did.

Then I opened the flood gates and let loose.

I told him that I was very disappointed that he had told Gary and Pam about moving before me, and that it made me so sad to be the last person on his list who matters. This was spoken in a very soft and weepy voice, so any of you who feels I was out of line, please know that my voice was low and quiet.

He started to defend himself by saying, "Well, I had to tell them to line up their help in moving." I told him I understood that part, but asked him if he felt any reservation in not letting me know first. He started into his standard PA crap, saying he doesn't know why I'd feel disappointed, etc. I merely asked him why it took so long for him to get up the courage to tell me then.

He got quiet and finally said that he knew I would be disappointed, which is why he didn't tell me. By now, I was crying hard. My eyes were blurred and the reflection against the snowy streets hurt my eyes. Fortunately, traffic was extremely slow and did not require a whole lot of thought for me.

He said quietly that he is nowhere near ready to come home.

I told him, "I know."

Then I decided to lose the rest of what was bottled inside.

I told him that I was tired... not only physically fatigued but mentally weak as well. I mentioned that it has been so hard for me to be the strong one while he went off to think.

I also told him that I hold no resentment for needing some time and space, but that I was sad, lonely, despairing and exhausted--and that I was ready to throw in the towel one way or another. I said that it has been really tough for me to remain upbeat and appearing strong 99% of the time, but I felt it was in everyone's best interest for me to do so.

D9 seems to take cues from my moods and emotions and I felt I owed it to her to keep chipper and upbeat. I also told him I knew that if she was down, he would feel guilt, which wouldn't help any of us. He agreed.

I let him know that even though I appear strong and confident, it's a defense mechanism so that I don't have a nervous breakdown. I told him I have wanted to tell him how I've been feeling for a long time, but have not had the guts to do so and watch him walk out on me. It's been very hard not receiving any support or any notice of the job that I've had to do.

He then told me that I've done a remarkable job being the single mother--taking care of the financial obligations of the family without benefit of his income (and he makes more than 2x what I make)... let alone all the moral support to the girls, making sure they're clean, fed and attending school.

Making sure that all school appointments are kept and seeing that they get everywhere they need to be without having the luxury of his help.

He told me I've done a good job, and he's always felt that.

I asked him why he's been reluctant to share that with me? I reminded him that my LL is WOA and I really need to know that. He said he was sorry and didn't know why he's been withholding from me for so long.

And then I told him about this BB and the support I've received here. He seemed surprised and then asked if this was how I met Brian? Yes, he had noticed that I have another male friend. Brian, it's totally okay! I said yes and that it's been nice meeting others who are in the same miserable boat.

Which led me to tell him what Trish said in her post. He was at first a little taken aback--he's of the opinion that if you want to offer criticism, you better give someone a solution or some choices in solving problems before you tackle it. While I totally agree, I felt hurt that the original post was said in a manner that I received as an attack. I'm through that now, and I do appreciate the message--despite its delivery.

I finally told him that the subject of being vulnerable had arisen in MC last summer. He asked, is that why MC suggested that godawful book? I said yes. And though I told him I didn't agree with most of the author's opinions, I did walk away from 2 things: that resentment is based when self care is lacking; and that there is world order established in our male and female roles.

He asked me what I meant.

I said, "Remember that awful letter your mom wrote you about me after your 40th birthday party?"

He said, "How could I forget? It was the most awful letter I've ever received and she said things about you that were not only untrue, but very hurtful."

I told him that although I had never read it (his opinion that it was not helpful), I could go on some summaries that he had provided me that were phrased in a much kinder way.

And mentioned that as much as it pained me to admit that his mother had a point, she had one. He asked what?

I asked him if he remembered the part about him doing typical female tasks in the house? He said yes, but reminded me that we had agreed upon them because we were both short on time. I asked if he really felt that way, why then were our initial MC sessions seeping in resentment?

He said, "Remember that thing you mentioned about self care? It's true for me too."

Anyway, I told him I know I could have tried harder. He didn't say anything.

I told him that I was getting closer to work and had to end the call because mascara was dripping down my face and I needed to walk through the door not crying.

He told me that he's getting close to making a decision but still hasn't made one. And then he told me again that he appreciates the hard work I've put in to keeping this messy life as balanced as possible.

I thanked him for the kudos and then we hung up.

Now I have to do a few things before heading to a Medicaid review... the time of year where they get to see progress in D6. And if there is any, they get to eliminate us from the program she's in. Since she's made plenty, I expect that avenue of funding to disappear this spring.

I'm not happy about it because it worries me about what I'm going to be doing. Am I going to be a single mom and having to put this monster house up for sale so I can afford to heat a smaller one? Is it going to screw up schools for the girls? Am I going to be a nervous wreck?

I know that living in the present will take that burden from me. So I'm here. But I have to admit that a future in more of the same is not at all appealing.

Thanks again everyone!

Betsey

Oh God, Bets! GO YOU!

By the end of this day, you are all going to wish that I wasn't on such a cheeseball PMA kick. I promise you, I am nauseating myself! But I want to point something out here...

Quote:

---

But I have to admit that a future in more of the same is not at all appealing.

---

Good news! The future will not hold more of the same. Betsey, please honey, PLEASE look back at your recent past. It has held more of the same in some respects, yes. But so much has changed also! Your future will carry forth likewise. The 'same' is going to exist everywhere, in everything you do. But from now on, so is the 'different'. Even if you decide that this is it, you're through...there is going to be so much 'different' involved that you can't logically classify things as 'more of the same'. YOU have changed...change banishes 'same' from your life.

Betsey, there is progress. I see you progressing...remember I have a helicopter here, I know the trees look the same, but you're getting closer honey. Trees tend to do that...I guess you have to be able to REALLY focus on detail to see that they are all different - either that or God ran out of creativity when it came to trees in a forest.

Betsey, you aren't creating his confusion. You're creating his curiosity. He had a set idea in his head and now it turns out that he may have been skewed in that decision. He still isn't sure...but he's curious. And he's watching...the fishy doesn't say it nearly often enough, but he is watching and taking note.

Do you have ‘enough’ today? If not, I’ll cover for you…let me know what you need to have ‘enough’ and it will be on its way. A laugh? A smile? A punching bag? Name it…I’ll even send you a couple cards – 1. I’m so sorry you lost your dog and 2. (this is for Mr. W) So you’ve moved! Guaranteed to brighten any day!

GO YOU Dammit!!

Oh, thank GOD you're back, Mer.
Truth be told, if Betsey is taking a break from the BB (which will suck, because she is a HUGE inspiration), it is because she got BLASTED at a point when she felt (realistically) that she was doing pretty well.
She is doing a hell of a job at being a mother to her girls, pretty much alone, and one HELL of a job being a loving wife to her H. The strength it takes NOT to lose it even occasionally is HUGE - I read the post to her, and I got mad too. It doesn't help.

Those feelings are the ones I am trying to leave behind, because they DON'T WORK. But when I am trying to do that, somebody telling me I should let my anger out generally does NOT help. It stirs up feelings I have to work really hard to control.

Posts like that one are the reason I had to stop talking to my family and friends about my sitch. All they do is screw me up, and sway me from my goals. And i don't need that from ANYONE.

Betsey, I stick to my original feelings that you were doing great. When I first read the post, it came off a lot like a flame (albeit a well-worded one). It was a lot of psychobabble, and not a lot of DB, I don't think.

If we can't vent about our spouses and sitches here, where can we vent?


(((((((((((((((((Betsey))))))))))))))))))

Myrrh

Meredith, Myrrh and all,

I just got out of the Medicaid review... but have something quick to tell.

While I was sitting in my office with the 2 ladies I was meeting with, a flower delivery person showed up at my office door.

"Is there a Betsey here?"

Yes, I admit my interest is piqued. I signed for them and opened the envelope. The card reads:

"Hope this picks you up. Mr. W."

This falls in the middle of mayhem. While in my meeting, D6's special ed teacher called to tell me that she is sick. I can't come, so I call Mr. W., who agrees to head home to get her. I called him back after the ladies left and thanked him for the flowers.

He replied, "You're welcome, and I'm sorry about everything."

Then he proceeded to ask for my cooperation tonight--he asked me to skip the gym because he has to head back to the office to handle something sticky. Well, I'm in dire need of a workout, but I agreed... maybe I'll ride the exercise bike for a spell.

Thanks for your comments and know I'll be back soon. I just need some time to sort through stuff and not offer advice to others.

Hugs to all,

Betsey

Hmm...Medicaid review - That sounds like LOADS of fun.

The flowers - WHEW - that's AWESOME. See - sometimes the fish come through - guppies or no...
Glad to hear you sounding good, and Mr. W sounding good. I thought about you a lot this weekend (but not in the shower).
Hang in there - now is the time to focus on you, babe. You deserve it. We'll still be here when you get back.
Hugs,
Myrrh

Wow - that's so great!!!

And please - don't read TOO much into people's posts. When some one here takes the time to write you a page long whack with a 2 x 4 - it's usually because they really care about you and think they can give you a useful perspective on something. Otherwise they wouldn't waste their time and energy.It may or may not be correct - after all, we're not in your life, and we only have your posts to go on - but don't assume that just because somebody gave you a whack, that they didn't have your best interests at heart.

I think the flowers are proof by the way that your abstinence from fish-eating is getting results

Ellie