I can't speak for Meredith or anyone else who has a P/A man, but I know from experience that how I expressed my expectations, on top of my expectations, seemed to push that P/A button fully.
I'll summarize because I have a list of transgressions here.
When I stated that I had expectations from him, and I spoke harshly--as a mother might do with a child, he would agree with whatever I said and then do the total opposite.
I would then go off on him (which he expected) and then he would set me up for a big fall by watching me explode and telling me that I would never change.
Oh, and getting defensive (which is my specialty) seemed to spur him on in instigating the sitches where he could set me up.
Ok, I'll give you an example. Throughout our M, I have hated Mr. Wonderful's tendency to hit the bowling alley (or any other guy hangout) because he drank to the gills and then drove home. Drinking and driving was my only concern. He chose to see it as a means of control...
That is, he felt I didn't want him to go out with the guys because I was insecure and not wanting him to spend time with his friends.
So he would agree to go somewhere and be back by a certain time, giving me hugs and reassuring me that I had nothing to worry about.
He would come home at 2 am, reeking of beer and smoke, and walk into the BR, whereas he would expect his reception. That would be me, pissed beyond belief, giving it to him with both barrels and reaming him for being so inconsiderate.
Having a drug addict for a brother and a cop for a dad gave me license to imagine all sorts of unhappy endings at 2 am...
He would go to bed with his tail between his legs and promise to never do it again.
The next morning, Ice Queen would awaken and give him admonishing looks and extreme disapproval for being so irresponsible. He would remind me that I was right, underlining the part about the possibility of him losing his job if he ever got a DUI, and promising to do better.
Then he would nudge the convo in a direction where he got to orchestrate. He would then bring up a transgression of mine, knowing full well that I was furious and on the defensive. I'd react that way (predictably) and then he would walk away, saying it was no use talking to me.
And he could justify to himself that he was being nagged and misunderstood. This was his M.O. our entire marriage. And until our first stint in MC back in 1999, he refused to see this as setting me up.
The longer this went on, the more dramatic and ugly the interactions became. He would then do it when we had company (particularly my family members) or on the evenings prior to a big event. It got completely out of control.
Aside from my own behaviors (which have completely changed), he could have done something very simple to stop this engagement from spiraling completely out of control: he could have not brought up some sin of mine on the heels of an argument about his.
Ironically, he sees it the other way. Go figure?
The only thing that worked for me is to completely stop engaging with him when I was/am angry. I institute the overnight rule in all conflicting situations. That way, he has some time to disengage and those series of buttons are not pushed.
The result is what you see right now in my thread. He still pisses me off royally, Linda. But I no longer allow him to get me to engage with him in a manner that encourages Passive-Aggressive behavior. Ceasing any and all behaviors/words that put me in the light of being his mommy and giving him the opportunity to rebel like an adolescent put an abrupt halt to the escalation.
He started taking some responsibility for his words and actions (as you can readily see by our convo this morning) and without fear of being punished by mommy. I let him know I didn't like it, but I didn't admonish him like a child either.
Does this make sense?
Last edited by Underdog; 01/23/0407:49 PM.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Myrrh--If I'm stubborn, my H has his picture next to the definition! I don't think I'm stubborn. That trait has not been identified by any of my loved ones as a sin.
I don't see myself as stubborn either. But I'm definitely fiery, and passionate. This is part of the Celtic mystique. And my tattoo is of a thistle...
I do have a bad temper, though. I never had one until I had kids and then it made itself perfectly evident. Controlling my temper has been my #1 achievement on this path. I'm damn proud of my accomplishments on that front too.
Plus expressing anger was becoming a very scary thing for me. Not to mention D9...
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey - I meant stubborn in a good way, as in "Never give up!!!" It's a compliment, and I hear you about the anger thing. Sometimes I didn't even recognize myself anymore, and I hated the screaming shrew I was becoming.
I didn't see "me" when I was angry.
Hugs, Myrrh
P.S. Cool on the tattoo - I ought to get one, if only to have something to brag about - hey, my h did this P.P.S. Where are the guys like William Wallace (Braveheart) now?
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Ummm, I believe they were annihilated. But good old William was quartered, with the parts being sent to opposite corners of Scotland to show other highlanders what lay in store for them if they opposed British rule...
Ironically, one of my ancestors (a Douglas) was a follower of Robert the Bruce. He and his pal (a Sinclair) took the heart remains of King Robert to fight the crusades... well, that story didn't have a happy ending, so I'll end it right here.
Well, how about we substitute the word "persistent" for stubborn? It implies a nicer definition of the same thing!
I'm still contemplating another tattoo. It would have to be in a place that was not visible... and I don't know what I'd get. Which is why I've just been patiently sitting it out. Was thinking crossed swords or some other Celtic symbolism. Who knows?
Maybe if I do, I'll make a trip to your place and let your H have the honors.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
And you know, I've always been partial to Celtic knotwork, but I'm not sure a trip to Illinois would be worth the (admittedly substantial) discount you'd get from knowing me. You're in Denver, right? Brrrr. Myrrh (Yes, it rhymes with Brr)
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Myrrh--Denver is a whopping 60 degrees today! No BRRR here. We've had a wonderful January in regards to weather. Trace amount of snow and 50-60 degrees for the most part.
Sssshhhhhhh. This is our little secret. Denver is like this all year long.
The saying goes "If you don't like the weather here, just wait 10 minutes."
Well, an exaggeration, but not by much!
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey, Betsey, Betsey, (sigh) Will I ever be as wise as you???
Lots to address here- Your H must be wondering what planet you just landed from and where the real Betsey is! I know you've been doing this for quite some time, but it seems he is still expecting you to erupt and you just keep on being your nice shark self. Go You! It is so amazing to me to watch this stuff in action. Who woulda thunk it?
As for the road trip---Contrary to popular belief, pam WILL go shopping. Not only that, Pam MUST go shopping. I am tired of putting myself last. Where did it get me? Why, LAST, of course! So, I will shop, do a spa, get a make-over...any/all and more of the above. AND, I will gladly bring a Brad Pitt look-a-like. I don't really even care if he chooses to steal my money, either!
I am reading and re-reading a lot of your posts lately. It scares me sometimes, because they cause me to have to face many unpleasantries about myself. You sure do take responsibility for your actions, don't you? I respect that. I am working hard on the same...hence my need to write up a list of goals. They will be painfully honest and be very difficult for me. But, I remember you telling Tracy that you liked my honesty. When I feel I have nothing else to offer you guys, well, at least I have that. (As do you). I am starting to realize, though, that the honesty is not good if the perception is bad. Meaning, my truth is not necessarily my H's. So, I will keep this in mind as I forge on. I think this will all make sense to you.
Ahh, Betsey! So much to think about. Good thing H works a billion hours a week and leaves me alone with my thoughts much of the time....
Thanks Underdog...I do see AND I see that I did this myself. So the key is to NOT be tempted to act like the chiding, angry, guilt-giving mother when H does some hurtful, spiteful, terrible teens act of rebellion?
No seriously, I do see and I confess that I became that carping woman...I think in addition to their not changing the issue and bringing up one of our transgressions before fully discussing their current one..would be if they would apologize for what they did instead of defending it. I'm a sucker for apologies and when (well, if I ever) heard one, I would have been happy to say...well, I mess up too...lets kiss and have a group hug.
So, ya think that X set me up to criticize him? Or did I do that all on my own? I would get so angry at his avoidance and blame and then I'd launch in on his faults and he'd say: I won't speak to you when you raise your voice to me. And then slam, he'd be gone. He did learn along the way to stay, but he didn't like my trying to convince him that whatever I did,said or wanted was the thing we should do. And I'd never do anythign 'family' without first running it by him and getting his ok. So building a house: what do you think about this? He'd say I don't like it, then I'd tell him why I liked it and thought it a good idea. He felt that was controlling so he'd be a bull and I'd be a bull back. Then, he'd resort to P/A to win, while I was still trying to coax, cajole, convince him into what I wanted. TOO MUCH ENERGY. And yes, I was part of the problem, but I guess that I don't see trying to convince someone of the merits of my ideas as all that bad or controlling...I'm not forcing compliance, but I guess to them it does feel that way at times (aka: she'll keep at me until I agree.)THat is my crazy making and I don't mean to be controlling or obstinate. I am just hoping that my wonderfully sound and creative ideas will win you over. Like where DB ers should meet for dinner and such...I don't mean to be pushy.
Thanks for the new perspective. Now, if I can only get some of this into depositions. HA. Linda
Betsey, I won't call you Bets, its what I call the other semi evil one, you know the evil twin I agree with GD1, that seemed like a pretty respectful conv., he calls you by nickname, is pretty nice, apologizes and takes some responsbility, could have been a lot worse, you have read lots of my posts, good thing you do not posses my Dbing skill set
And UD, I think you are a very nice shark and so do lots of other lost souls you help here often, your advice is excellent and well thought out, I hope you get some good luck in your sitch pretty soon. I am still sucking pond scum, but not giving up yet.
Kids are coming to livr with me for 2 months, W can be lonley like I was for a while her choice on all this, see how she feels after spending some quality time ALONE?
Take CAre, and quit braggin bout the 60 degree weather, you know its gonna be -15 anyday
