OK, so... as difficult as this may be, you are going to have to be a master at patience...
Until she states otherwise, you have asked her and she remains in the M, so let that lie. Stop asking because she has told you, it feels like pressure.
So... get a really good handle on the DB techniques that will work for you and possibly help save your M. That is, generally, become a man that only a fool would leave. And it needs to be real and persistent over a long period of time, so that it sticks, and your W can trust it... when trust of us is lost, even when we feel it is unwarranted, it is very, very difficult to regain... but not impossible, by any means...
She will punish you as long as she feels she needs to. That doesn't mean you cower or cater to her whims. It means you validate her feelings of insecurity, even if you feel they are unwarranted. Let her know that you understand that she feels the way she feels. Period. Nothing more. Men need to learn the power of listening, when it comes to their spouses. It is a HUGE value.
She may eventually start asking questions about the OW. While you feel it wasn't an OW, treat it like it was. IOW, rather than defending and saying that you didn't... again, just validate her feelings...
OK, beyond that... what areas do you feel that you could become a better man? A better spouse? A better parent? These questions do not take away from the quality of man / spouse / parent that you already are. It is simply a question of, "what more?"
And finally, pick up the book called "5 Love Languages". It can help you understand both your own and your W's method of showing and receiving love. While not a tactic to get your W back by "making" her love you more, you use this as a possible 180 and "becoming better" man... which may hopefully save your M.
What ever you do, you need to back off and let her drive / control.
Change yourself to change the relationship... that's it... that's DB..,.
Kaffe.... Thank you for the advise... Much appreciated. It goes agianst my nature in alot of ways but I understand that is part of my problem and an area I can improve on.
Ill get the love language book, thanks for the suggestion.
My posts are delayed by quite a bit so you may see some posts come up with questions that you have already addressed. Sorry, not sure what the issue is.
Ill keep looking at the what more can I do as well.
So... Ive read the 37 rules....Good stuff... Read a ton of posts..... Alot of people on here are going through some very difficult times.... I wish everyone well and hope everything turns out for them. Makes me feel like crap for posting my what now seems to be "trivial" situation. But I look at it this way. If everyone else didnt have the courage to post their issues and work through them, I wouldnt have realized where my relationship is/was heading... Thank you to all for sharing, youve given me a ton of insight.
Last weekend went pretty good. I havent even attempted the relationship talk. I kept upbeat and focused on my kids and myself. I interacted w/wife when she wanted but didnt "linger". My wife backed up into me yesterday during a blizzard while myu kids were playing soccer.... I wrapped my arms around her, she lightly grabed my hand that was tucked in. She took a picture of us together w/her phone, we reviewed it and my littlest one just smiled and said "you are the best mom and dad ever!" We look really happy in the pic.
Today, we went to Costco. I called to see if she still wanted to go.. She called while she was on her way, said her mom wanted her to pick her up. I wanted it to be just my wife and I so we could spend time w/no kids, no interruptions. I agreed to still go. She came in the office (rare) she watched me send my employees a note saying dont call until xxx time (I used to always respond whenever they needed). We went to lunch w/mother in law, cruised Costco together, droped me off and just a couple of min ago, she emailed me the picture from Sunday. My wife does not email.....
I think things are headed in the right direction.... Only time will tell I guess and I am going to keep at it.
I agree that things seem to be moving in a positive direction.
Just remember though, that the positive changes that you are making in yourself need to occur over a long enough time to be permanent changes in yourself. Otherwise, you will likely find yourself in the same, stressful situation.
You are by no means out of the woods, yet. Before things really went south in my M, I spent a lot of time sleeping on the couch (my choice). Things would get better, and then back to the couch.
Keep journalling and asking questions and reviewing other member's threads. Posting as you did above can help you keep a record of how things are going and let you know if maybe some of the things you are doing are not working, or things get "better" and then level off, which can get people stuck and into deeper problems.
I agree completely and I dont want our Marriage to go back to the way it was in many ways. I completely understand that I am the only one I can change and have any sort of control over so it is I that I need to stay focused on. It feels like that any "break" she can find in me, reverting back to the way I was in some areas, will set this new course off in the wrong direction and delay progress.
Yesterday, I bought her a nice inexpensive boquet of flowers. She knows I didnt go out of my way to get them, I called her close to lunch to see if she wanted to go with, she hadnt gotten ready for the day yet so she declined, she knew where I was going for lunch and knows thats where I bought the flowers from. The point of getting her flowers was not to apologize, not to ask for forgiveness, not to attempt to make up, just an "I was thinking of you" type message. No card, no words. Just brought them into the house, left them on the table and I told her I bought her some. I wanted nothing in return and that is what I got. Nothing. No "thanks, they are pretty" or anything. She didnt even put them into a vase until I left the house with the kids for soccer practice, but she did put them in a vase, on the kitchen table. Now, for everyday that those flowers are alive and on the table, she will look at them and think of me. Maybe in a good way, maybe in frustration, but she will be thinking of me. Hopefully this will get her to think about what is going on and help move our situation forward.
So because I did something for her yesterday, didnt expect anything in return, remained in a good mood even though inside I am feeling depressed and helpless, she decided to test me this morning. After I got out of the gym I noticed that I had missed a call. It was from her, I called back and she was venting on me about our kids and last minuite permission slips etc... she was mad, I let her vent and asked a question to clarify what she was saying and she got really mad, so I just said please dont yell, I am just trying to straighten out what is going on in my head so i understand, thats all. After that, she toned it down and got off the phone to finish getting the kids ready. I think I passed! I didnt get angry, I didnt raise my voice, I didnt say why do you always yell at me .....I feel stronger because of it. Now I dont feel she CAN break me.... but the testing isnt over I am sure so I will remain focused here. One small victory at a time....
I like working on this stuff, i like helping make our relationship better but I wish we could do this on different terms.
I will just remind you that, you do have expectations. Certainly, most people have expectations of some sort. Just remember what your expectations are and that you intend not to be offended or upset if the expectations don't pan out the way you hoped.
For example, even though you wanted nothing in return for the flowers, you KNOW the potential effects of flowers on the table. So, you do have expectations.
Rather, when you consider consequences of your words or actions, simply do the words or actions and... forget about them... it might be what you are doing for the most part. I'm just putting that out there for you to consider.
I'm going to echo Kaffe Diem. You are focusing alot on what you want. It's good to have goals, but you also need to be happy with what you have. I've read many stories on these forums that are much worse than yours (and mine). Show your W you are happy with what you have.
If you aren't happy with what you have, you will lose it. I had 3 good days in a row where my W anger just seemed to disappear. I pushed my W by asking to spend time together with friends thinking it was a 180. The anger came back. I think my W will come back in time. Her time (not mine). Maybe the same could happen for you. Have hope but not expectations. It won't be easy.
One other note. Recurring advice on these forums is GAL (get a life). Many people consider this part of the detaching process. It's good for you and your W emotionally. Find something else to make you happy to get your mind off of what is making you unhappy and what's missing. When you don't spend so much time on your W or R, she has time to reflect on R without pressure or frustration. Let her sort things out.
Good advice. I felt this today as i was thinking about those flowers and how she reacted, part of me was proud that I made it through with out saying anything. The other part of me wanted some recognition for doing something nice and thoughtful. I am split between the two at different times but I just keep telling myself that I did the right thing and to be PATEINT and I will see.
I am trying real hard to do just what you said. Do it, say it and forget it.
So here is a little something new that just happened. I asked her to lunch yesterday and she wasnt ready and she did say maybe tomorrow. So I just called her to see whats up, asked her to go, she hesitated and asked what for, "if its to hash things out I dont want to". I just smiled..... I said. "I havent brought anything up for quite awhile and Im not going to. Its in your hands and when your ready you can bring it up". She was silent for a moment. Then she said let me get a few things done and I will call you. I asked her to call before a certain time so if she wasnt going I could go early and beat the rush.
It seems to me that she has obviously thought about us recently....very recently. Shes not ready to discuss the situation for whatever reason..hers obviously but I dont know the why not. My opinion is that she has seen good things from me, has been reminded why she married me. But she wont pull the trigger yet..... PATIENTS again i think will win this one....
After thinking about it for a bit, maybe I am wrong, maybe she knows that this has to be bugging me, even though Im not showing it. Maybe she knows its time we move on and get on with our marriage but doesnt know how to talk about it? My wife isnt the talking kind. I have to see her actions in order to tell what is going on with her. I have thought about this and I was thinking that she probably wouldnt say anything if it was left up to her. I figured that since I am not going to approach this any time soon, that I would just see her at some point and notice she put her ring back on and then I could just go up to her and hug her. Im the talker in the relationship. I am the one who tries to close things out through discussions and conversations. Maybe she thinks because i am the way I am, that she has to talk about it to move forward.
This is the type of stuff that confuses the heck out of me. Any suggestions????
I am glad you are recognizing things in yourself and I am also happy that you were able to see the two sides of the possible outcome.
I would submit that you answered it best when you said, "I just keep telling myself that I did the right thing"... that you did the right thing... FOR YOU... and the rest of it, "and to be PATEINT and I will see" should be dropped, as that is filled with expectations.
Patient yes, but patiently waiting for a result? That's expectations.
So, do what you do because it is right, for you. Do what you do, while considering consequences. Do what you do, which at the very least "keeps the road home paved and smooth".
Because even if you do not R, these are skills and values that will help you in the future to have great relationships, regardless.
Im a work in progress Kaffe, all I can do is try for the right reasons. Thanks for your advice and input, I appreciate it.
Lunch was good, nothing spectacular. didnt EXPECT it to be...(ha ha).
Personally, I think that if I keep this up for awhile, she will figure out a way to let me know that she wants to be with me and that we can resume intimacy. At this point, that is pretty much all that is missing. I dont get to sleep with her or show her any affection (on my terms anyway). I will keep the patients going and contuinue to work on that, and I will keep working on doing whats right and not expecting anything in return, but i will engage her more once this issue is over. So that is the only thing that I will revert to that I can think of right now.
I also think that she is using this time to figure things out as well. Not so much if we are going to be together or not.... I think by her actions and most of the things she talks about that is clear. But as you can see in my original post....weve been through alot, we havent made time for us, we have came to a point in our relationship that things HAVE to change. On both sides. I cant and dont want to interfere or influence these decisions for her. So again, I am on her time and hopefully when we come out of this, we will have matured and grown together and enjoy this new path we are on.
