I am not sure what to do with this information, other than to ask her the question I have not as of yet as to whether anyone else is involved. This guy is ten years younger and married with a kid on the way (saw on his FB) so it seems rediculous, but my gut is telling me this is tied in. Do I ask the question about him? Do I ask generically if there is another man? Do I keep my mouth shut and wait for the counsellor to bring it up next week?
One other BIG related fact I forgot. Two of her three best friends have gone through divorces in the past three years. One was married to a surgeon who had about 10 affairs on her but she has a huge support payment, has moved to, you guessed it, Milwaukee, and is who she is seeing in a couple weeks. This friend has talked about how happy she is now, she is in grad school, etc. Her other friend who divorced was married to a guy that was a nice guy but she didn't respect him as a provider and he was an alcoholic. She has now reconnected with a HS old flame who is independantly wealthy and they travel a lot and he take good care of her. The grass is being painted as very green.
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
So... how does your W's EA with the potential for a planned PA work into your boundaries?
Are you prepared to not snoop and just assume there is an A and you will work through the transition / MLC with your W, while DBing and becoming a man only a fool would leave?
The more you post, the more it is starting to sound more like MLC. Or at least more severe transition (without consideration for consequences, which often is the differentiator between MLC and transition).
Again, there is nothing you can do to stop her if she is going to have a PA or if she is EA, and pressure while in MLC will make her hide even more.
Again, what is your boundary? If you can not deal with this, then state your boundary (no need to indicate why you believe there is an A) and then go full LRT... *shrug*
1. I have been spending a lot more time at home, taking the kids to practice, helping around the house, walking the dog with her, etc. But, our fun time has mostly had other friends around. Wednesday she suggested going out to dinner as a couple only and I was looking forward to it, then yesterday she emailed that she had a new recipe to try... 2. Therapy, as described above. We have weekly appointments set for the next few weeks already. 3. Snooping. I know this is a dangerous activity, but I feel so alone and in the dark that I have been. She has been very protective of her phone, so either she suspects I am looking at it or there is more on there that she is deleting. 4. I have tried to focus a lot on the kids. 5. Even before the talk, I had started watching my diet and not drinking if she wasn't, plus working out. I am ideally 205, but am usually 210 +/- 5 lbs. I had reached 229 in January, and am back to 213 this morning. 6. I haven't talked to any family, and few friends. The only friends are husbands of wives where we are close friends with couple. I feel like a failure and am embarrassed, plus I don't want things to be weird with friends and family once we work through it. But, I suspect she has talked to more. 7. I have subsribed to Mort Fertel's marriage max daily feed and as a result have: a. Got her a nice card for Easter. b. Put a card in her car last week telling her I loved her. c. Bought her a small gift - $7 Brewer earrings, that reflected I had been paying attention when we were shopping the weekend before. d. Gave her another card yesterday.
8. I have been texting and emailing her daily to see how her day is going and volunteer something else in terms of my day. Sometimes she responds positively, othertimes, crickets. 9. I am about halfway through Gottman's Seven Secrets book. Great book. She said she will read a book that our therapist recommends, but wants to wait (he recommended this one for me).
How am I doing?
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
SLOW DOWN.....! I get it, I did the same in the early days of my W's mlc...if MLC this is something your CANNOT fix, she has to travel her journey on her own, and you are not invited...work on YOU!
I would recommend stopping the snooping, do not bring up OM possibility, unless you are prepared to push her away, or, into his arms faster...read alot of other threads here (try mine if you have a lot of time to kill), the possible EA/PA is just a symptom:
Quote:
Pittman:
Romantic Infidelity
Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continue living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate—someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own—is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.
Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.
People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born—any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up. The better the marriage, the saner and more sensible the spouse, the more alienated the romantic is likely to feel. Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones.
Memorize the following, NOW, they work:
Quote:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned change
Post often, give us as much detail as you can, and what are you doing to become a man only a fool would leave?...be VERY frugal and careful in who you choose to share this sitch with, if too many or wrong people can make things worse, or derail/delay/hamper a possible reconciliation...keep going to IC, he sounds good from what you've written...
Most important...BACK OFF!!! I cannot stress this enough! I am a recovering fixer, so I know this is painfully hard to do, but you MUST! For you own sanity at the very least.
Keep posting, hang in there, and get to GAL ASAP!
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
NP on the dronning... I figured you had to get that out...
Originally Posted By: CharlieBrown
Do you think I should at least ask if there is another man in the picture? I never thought to ask until last night.
What do you expect she will answer? She's been hiding it, so far... do you think that confronting her will suddenly have her cave and change her course? Perhaps, she will just keep lying about it...
And if she DOES tell you and also indicates that she will not change her course... does that affect your decision...?
And if so... why?
IOW, you have at least plausible proof that there is a strong EA and a possible PA in the making... Many of us never get admission or empathy through confrontation...
In the end, it is up to you. I only stated what I would do... now... maybe...
I confronted on multiple EAs and got denial regarding all of them, even with fairly solid "proof". At this time, I still want admission if we were to ever work things out. Maybe I will change my mind in the future, but I see and am working on a future that will not include my stbx in my life, for the foreseeable future.
Again, what you do is entirely up to you. All I am really saying is... consider what you want right now... if you never confronted and had admission. Would you carry on and hope to R? Or is it a deal breaker, even without admission...
Would you believe her if she told you that she really had no emotional attachment to this guy and wasn't planning on meeting him and possibly having a PA?
oh, lol... T^2 popped in before me. Do take a good look at his threads as a case study on great DB behaviour. There is a very definite trend of his W moving back towards the M.
Would you believe her if she told you that she really had no emotional attachment to this guy and wasn't planning on meeting him and possibly having a PA?[/quote]
Great question! Yes, I think I would believe her. And honestly, I think I would still continue forward with the counseling, but it might be a deal breaker so I guess my thought is that before she goes to Milwaukee is the critical time? Might be too late after that?
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I figured you had to get that out... 