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Cadet,
Thanks for the welcome. My S is 7 and D is 2. I have a great relationship with them. I love them to pieces. I miss them greatly. I was able to be with them about 3 weeks ago for 2 days when I was TDY in Germany. W brought them down. I did express to him that whatever happens with Mamma and I is not in any way his fault. My S calls me almost every night to just tell me about his day and what toy he's playing with and what he built with his LEGOS. My D has no idea what is going on, too young.
Yup, you're right about being out of the pic too long, but I've been providing for them.
I'll have to ask about what she envisions as the end goal vs. mine, yes.
Well, thanks to seeing from these forums that even after DV, things could turn around, I do still have hope.

M1,
You've asked the million dollar question and my answer is, yes I do love her. I wouldn't cry over someone I don't love. I didn't cry over my ExW when she had a PA and I asked for DV.
The problem is with my W, is that we have been apart for so long that we've lost touch of how we feel. I kept my heart in the back of my chest to minimize the pain I experienced while being away. Then when I was visiting or vice versa, I exhibited that I was strong and doing well despite our geo separation. What I should have done was show my true feelings and express to her how much she means to me through the "little things." I needed to hug her more "just because." I needed to compliment her more often.
Perhaps it was a bad idea 2 years ago to go along with her suggestion to not say, "I love you" at the end of our conversations. I figured it was her trying to be the tough one too.
Thank you, M1 for pointing this out. It's a missing element.

Thank you for answering a hard question.

And you know, sometimes it IS a hard question to answer. There are things that happen during the course of a relationship, and people tend to think along the lines of an obligation to be together, rather than a promise of wanting to be together.

I would still be interested in hearing about your interactions as of late, and how she is responding to you now, as opposed to in the past.

The way that you describe the long distance thing, and keeping your heart in the back of your chest, is perfectly describing detaching. And it sounds as if that is what you have already been doing, and what she has been doing too.

I'm not certain that detaching is what you need to do here. And that sounds strange to say in the beginning stages of DBing.

What I would suggest, based on what you have typed here, is to take some time, to let the dust settle. focus on what you shoulda, coulda, woulda done differently, or better.

Take the time to really define what love means to you, what your vows mean to you. Recognize what you need in a relationship, what you want to give in a relationship.

You say that she suggested that you not say "I Love You" at the ends of your talks, was that something that you endorsed too ?

Not now, but at that time ?


Think about what you want your future to look like, and make some small goals for yourself, that are just for you.

Are there any legal things happening right now ?


This is definitely a unique DBing situation, yet it doesn't mean that it is insurmountable.....

Keep reading and posting, and lets get you off of moderation first...


The more you talk, the clearer the picture gets....

Chin up RS...

Hey RS. I'm sorry you find yourself here. Apart 6 of 9 years? Whoa..that would be tough on anyone. I give both of you credit for getting this far.

In my own sitch, I went thru a period where I really looked at the past, what choices I'd made, how they impacted me and my W, my kids. I think a lot of this is the "shoulda, coulda, woulda" Mach1 is referring to.

It's important work because it will help you figure out what's truly important to you, help you forgive yourself for your mistakes, and likely, help you ask for forgiveness.

I'm interested in what you thought the "prize" was?

What do you think your W thought the "prize" was?



What about your W and kids? Aren't they sacrificing too?



The thing that bothers me about both these last two quotes is that it sounds like you are making decisions without your W's buy in. You are taking assignments without her agreement? You are buying houses without her agreement? Is she really your partner?? Do you think she feels like she is??

I'm not trying to beat you up here as I know very little of your story....just trying to get underneath some of the things you are saying.

M1,
Thanks for that. When I read your question I said "Man, do you have me there." It's something that's hard to think about while in this fog. Unfortunately, as of now I haven't heard from W for over 2 weeks now. I think the intentional detaching after the BD is backfiring. It makes my stomach turn that the only way I had got her attention to talk about things was telling her I was considering reducing her monetary support after I asked if she plans to continue seeing OM. She's said that she thinks she plans to continue her A (I'll call it that since I don't know if it's an EA or PA)with OM. She expressed the A did not come about until after the BD. Then again I don't want to impact the kids in any way they don't deserve that.
My S has been calling me almost every night and all of a sudden it stopped over the weekend and I've sent him text messages letting him know I tried to call him. FIL said the kids have been babysat lately by one of her brothers. It's either because she's pulling an evening shift or out playing with OM. I can't sleep right now because I'm thinking about it. But as far as the last interaction, I just told her that I didn't want to fight anymore because I didn't like the angry person that she was bringing out of me from all this. After that I felt better and the next day we had a civil chat about things and she then told me about her day at work. We ended on a good tone.
It's weird, because of my detaching in the past, now I know maybe what she's felt by not hearing from me all those times. I really failed in staying in touch and listening to what she has to say and taking a genuine interest in her activities so I can ask about them later. I'm working on that with my interactions with others as practice. Listen to them and recall what they told me so we can chat about things later.
I thought the dust has settled, but I'm not sure now. I've been seeing an IC and she's been wonderful in helping me get focused on taking care of me. I've been working out and doing GAL more. My fitness is the core support for me since I do it at home and I have a FB support group to be accountable to one another. They are my rock next to the IC. I've been loosening the budget belt a little so I can do more fun things with others. I've been on the path and still am working on becoming debt free by 2015. I know that $ was an issue even though W denies it. For the times we'd visit one another, we'd always be limited on things we could do because of it.

OK, what I shoulda, coulda, woulda done differently was pay more attention to her by giving compliments, hugs for no reason, flowers for no reason, and treat her well by doing the "little things." She was always doing thoughtful things for me and I just haven't been wired that way. I'll have my rare moments, but it usually took some thought and planning. The other thing I would've done differently was put family first rather than my job. I screwed up on that one.

I'll need some time to figure out what love means to me. I'm not quite sure right now. My vows? I get that. I've been faithful ever since and I'm now trying to hold on "for better or worse, for richer for poorer."
Yes, I foolishly endorsed the ILY omission.
My future right now is going to be completely centered around staying near my children. Luckily I was planning to stay in Europe, but possibly not having a home to retire to (with the family) is making it difficult and taking away my emotional support structure. I do have a good R with IL's but that may get awkward if things don't go well.
Thankfully legal stuff isn't happening yet. She did say that when I come to visit in Aug (I'm thinking I need to visit earlier)that we can go to the gov't building and do the paperwork. Oh goody, just what I'll be looking forward to! (sarcasm)
What she's completely missing is that I have an entire 3 bdrm house filled with stuff (a lot of hers) and because she wants to call it quits, I'll have to move into a small flat(apt) which will not be able to handle all of it. And I'm not paying to have her stuff shipped. The gov't will do one final move when I retire. My only option is to have a massive garage sale. I told her that I will do nothing until she decides what she wants to do with all of the stuff here.

Tomorrow I see a career advisor to help me with my resume and CV. The irritating part is that I have to decide which country I will be applying for residency by this time next year. It was so easy before the BD when I had the simple plan of just joining my family and the rest will come.

OK. Done venting. Thanks for your thought provoking advice, M1.

Breakdown,
Yup, others thought we were nuts doing the geo separation.

I think I'll ask IC how I can begin to make amends with my choices in the past. I really do need that. Although I did tell W that I can do nothing about what has happened in the past, yet we have control of the future.

The prize? It was her attaining her goal to become a nurse and myself finishing the military and then we can focus on the kids and being together again. That was the intended "prize" from sacrificing. It all began when I had orders to go back to the US from overseas. That assignment I had no control over. She was already 2 yrs into her studies and the US schools wanted her to start over with their programs. We decided that we could tough it out and let her stay and I'll do my 3 years stateside and we'll go from there. BTW, I did take both of our children for 6 mos so she could focus on her finals. It was one of the toughest things that I ever did end up loving. I proved I could be a great dad.

The sacrificing I had to do was support two households without military assistance. Because it was our choice to go separate ways, it was out of our pocket. I scrimped on a shoestring budget for that time so they'd be fine. I also had to take a second job to be able to afford a plane ticket for the 3 of them to come over. I simply did what I had to do to keep things afloat all this time.

About the decisions without her, well I should have consulted more in depth with her on the first move, yes. I thought she was OK with it. Apparently, I now know she was not.

Buying the house was just so I could have a place for all of our stuff. An apartment would've been too small. But again, I learned a lesson there and worked my fingers to the bone to maintain and then try to recoup the value of the house in the end. I admit I should've really explored my options.

That would've been another woulda, ensure that we were "partners" on everything. I was the type that had a fix or a solution for everything and didn't always ask her opinion. A fail for me.

Thanks for your input, Breakdown. It's most appreciated.

I will agree, you need to take some time to figure that out...

Cause I can assure you, that there is more to your vows than just the obvious words that everyone hears.

For Better ? Damn, anyone can do the better..

What about loving her ?

Cherishing her ?

Honoring her ?

How about the "for worse" ???

What do you do then ? pack up and take your toys home ????

I think you need to define what it means to YOU ??

Not based on what you "said" during your wedding....

And think about how different your words are, compared to your actions...

From what I see,

It's not that you don't love her...

It's that you don't know how to love her....




That means there is time for you to do some work....






No, I disagree with you there....

She isn't "completely missing" anything....

See if you can see what I see when I read that.....


????

M1,
You are absolutely correct about not knowing how to love. That's why I've got the book "The 5 languages of love" requested at our library. I think it may help me begin to figure things out.

Yes, it seems I have time but we're not talking much right now. I passed on some vaccination info to her tonight about our D and I could tell she really didn't want to speak to me. I used an upbeat voice and gave her the message and said to her, "that's all I wanted to tell you. Have a good night." I wanted to ensure that I end the conversation and not her. I'm working on the "as if."

For my GAL I'm pressing on trying to finish my certification exams (2 left)and working on immersing myself in my children's language they are learning. I'll need it later perhaps. I'm also allowing myself to go on more sightseeing trips and have a little more fun. I just went today and signed myself up for a trip to the Mediterranean so I can go have some fresh seafood for lunch over our 3-day weekend the 1st week of April. Besides I'll need to do something to get my mind off of our 10th A.

I'm not sure what you meant by the "completely missing" paragraph. Is it that she's not missing this part that is complicated and tied to the military? She prefers what she has now which is simpler?
I've recently seen a career counselor who helped me realize that in order for me to take advantage of my skills and federal benefits, I'll need to sacrifice a little more after retirement for my stability and also for my children's future. That will mean residing in a different country but I'll have a job in my industry where I can use my certification and have good pay and benefits. I will be away from my children, but I'll have the ability to see them every other weekend (2-hr flight). This is what I discussed with my IC today and she validated my conflicting feelings with this. Part of me was feeling like I was being selfish choosing the job over family again. W said that she won't go to my retirement ceremony and that hurt. I can't predict the future, but I'm not willing to gamble my future plans and career opportunities on the shaky condition of this M. I need to take care of myself so I can take care of others.

I would like to report one positive note:

I sent my P90X set to W (at her request from an earlier time)with two inspirational quotes that I said motivated me to reach my fitness goals.

I saw that she posted one of the quotes as her favorite on her FB profile. I was so humbled that despite our R, I can still impact her life in a positive way. It gave me some peace and allowed me to sleep better.

Validation....

Feels good to be heard huh ???





I always recommend reading 5LL twice. The first time you read it, it will kick you in the nuts. You will see it as a list of failures, and seemingly only YOU did all of those things. It reads as ...Golly RS, you really F-ed this up....

I would recommend reading it again after the initial shock of having to be here wears down a bit. Usually, it will read entirely different the second time. More of a "this is how I want to be" .

YOU need to define what that means to YOU too. I'm pretty sure that Gary Chapman knows what it means to him. And although it can give some insight...

This is about what YOU think...

Make sense ?





I'm not seeing GAL as one of your downfalls RS. I think that has been the normal in this relationship to begin with.

You each had your own life, away from each other.




Read this as though you aren't in the middle, or you had not written it.....





I would say that she is quite aware of what is going on.

I would say that she doesn't care what is there.

I would venture to say, that it speaks volumes about where her head is now.

I don't want to come across as beating you on the head or anything. From what I have read, your life together was about Material things , and smokescreens of what a marriage should look like. You had your path, and she had hers, and occasionally, they met in the middle.

What she wanted from you, was an emotional connection, and the feeling of being wanted, not possessions.

And the possessions remind her of what she never got from you.

They remind her, that everything else in the world, came before her. Nothing ever came in, second place to her, and now ? All of the sudden, you want to change that ? Because she wants that in her life ?

I gotta say, I would be pissed too...

Would you ?

When was the last time that you gave up something, to put her or the marriage first ???

Yea, you said the words, yet your actions spoke a different language...

Look at how giddy you became, over the simple act of her validating you up there. ^^^^^^





This is what I take from your words up there...^^^^^^

Superiority
Judgement
Martyrdom
Punishment

Read it objectively, and tell me if I am wrong ????


So tell me RS....

Are you ready to be different ????

Really different ????

Is this the way you want to be ????

Is this the way you envisioned a marriage ?

Is this the kind of marriage you want ????


Stay with me RS...

Sometimes the most painful journey, is the one you don't take...