Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE CeMar's LD Guide to HD spouses...slightly modified

I’m confused (stupid, slow, small bus to school, etc.). What are the ramifications for laying down the line. Aren’t you saying put up or shut up? CeMar wants to know do you have to threaten to leave if your needs and demands aren’t met?
I can’t believe that you can differentiate her demons from my demons. In her mind the one with the demons is me! Is it hopeless to think that she will change, is the real question live with it or leave? How many of the posts on here have shown that in a relationship that is not dysfunctional other than the HD/LD differences can really change. (yeah I know I’m bringing you down now).
I guess a little background discussion on my situation would be helpful in assessing my situation. I am 39, W is 38 married 15 yrs, 4 yr old son. First of all, other than the LD/HD issues I have a great relation with my W, really. All of the books look for some hidden deep rooted emotional problem with me or my W, not the case here. No real financial issues, both make similar $ neither blows it on stupid stuff. No real ‘share the chores’ issues, we both do or share around the house, I usually make dinner for us, along with her do laundry, cleaning, shopping, time with kid etc. Her friends even joke that I would make a great wife for someone. No serious body issues or physical problems. Have tried (many times) to do romantic stuff, sending her on sexy scavenger hunts, nice evenings out, gifts of nice clothes, lingerie, silly cards, flowers etc, usually with no romantic payoff.
Once got a baby sitter for a weekend vacation without the kid, had sexy romantic gifts sent to the hotel, show tickets dinner, etc.. ended up MB in the john that night after she told me she was tired, repeated the next night until we went home. A total bust. A few years ago picked up a book of fun sexy things to do together once a week with each partner taking turns doing fun things with/for/to the other, the sex was great when we did it, new, fun, and planned ahead of time, problem was it wasn’t weekly it was once a month and after she did it twice she told me she hated how scripted it was, the book got thrown away.
We ML once a week or less and it is very mechanical, not much emotion. I usually try to give her an O with my hand, she really seems to like that.
She is my best friend, really I know that is a cliché but here it is true. I fantasize about wild romantic – sexy encounters with her, and truly desire her. I still lust after her and am about at the end of my rope. Whose demons haunt us? My desires, her desires, do I lay down the ultimatum, or shut up and be happy with the rest of the relationship….

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We ML once a week or less and it is very mechanical, not much emotion. I usually try to give her an O with my hand, she really seems to like that.
She is my best friend, really I know that is a cliché but here it is true.

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Your "problem" really isn't all that complex, it's a pretty textbook case of emotional fusion, leading to a lack of intimacy and desire. The two of you are in gridlock, and will remain there unless one or both of you make a move to attain a higher level of differentiation. This means being emotionally more separate. The paradox here is that when we are "too close" to each other, like two candles melting together, we lose our sense of self, and this leads to LESS intimacy, not more. Being more separate, and having a more solid sense of self, gives us more to "bring to the table", more to share, more to disclose, and therefore leads to MORE intimacy. More intimacy leads to more passion and better (and more frequent) sex. From the sound of it, your frequency would make some of us think we'd died and gone to heaven - proof of Michele's statement that being in a SSM isn't a matter of frequency, but a matter more of quality and interest.

Response / Update, First off all let me apologize in advanced, I think I might piss off some people (not my goal just a ‘luck gift’ I have) in responding. It has been a few months since I posted. After I did, I actually shared CeMars lower drive guide, I think all 10 of the suggestions are good and if she would follow some of them I would be much happier. She read them, cried a little, acknowledged that she thought I was unhappy, and promised me she would try harder at the sexual aspects of the relationship.

Since then there has been an increase in sex from a few times a month to once a week or more (I know that many people on here would die to get to that frequency, don’t hate me cause in ‘lucky’). The passion is still low, it feels clinical, and there is still little effort on satisfying my desire for passionate and ultimately satisfying sex. I still make an effort to give her an O every time we ML. Usually I end up getting her aroused up to an O and then as she is in the afterglow, it is my turn. At that point she is willing but not ‘an active participant’. If I just ‘go to it’ without raising her arousal, it is very mechanical and not very fulfilling. I have tried getting her ‘close’ to an O, and then entering but she is disappointed that I didn’t just finish her O. She doesn’t seem to like oral by me, and seldom (almost never) reciprocates. Wow, that’s a lot of sexual details to throw out there….

I bought PM and read 2/3rds of it, personally I thought it was a lot of hooey (read BS), I guess I shouldn’t be so cynical, it may be the right answer for a lot of people, it has sold a lot of copies (lots of people bout mood rings too, wonder how that worked out for them…) so maybe there is something to it. Tim’s response;

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Your "problem" really isn't all that complex, it's a pretty textbook case of emotional fusion, leading to a lack of intimacy and desire

Sounds like a sound bite that simplifies and trivializes a complex issue. I’m not expecting a magic pill that solves everything or a simple flip a switch solution. The fact that my situation, of limited sex and low desire by spouse during sex, to some others on the board would be significantly better than the situation that they are in tells something about the variations of issues and problems.

Why do people post on here? I can’t speak to that but I can speak to why I posted, 1) feels good to talk even if you are not sure if anyone listens, 2) for support, even if it is just anonymous voices, it does feel good to hear encouragement, 3) for ideas and suggestions. Tim, thanks for responding but a simple out of the book answer isn’t much help, have these suggestions worked for anyone? (Yeah I know, critical and cynical, good attitude).

Well, latest attempts. Leading up to our anniversary I have been sending a note with a fun activity, homework assignments each day for a week. They are, simple, romantic, fun, things so she knows I am thinking of her and hoping to get her thinking of me in that way. I’m hoping to culminate in exciting sex on our anniversary, and hope not to have the letdowns of past tries. I fear I have become ‘the girl’ in the relationship, and am getting the take it for granted (typical guy) response from her. When I hear of attempts by some of the HD women on the boards, or see the girls in the mall buying sexy things for their spouse/boyfriends I become very jealous. Lets see how it goes, the big day is this weekend. I’m still frustrated and a little resentful that it seems I am putting in all of the 'romantic effort’ with little or no payback.

Interesting that you and I should "return to the board" on the very same day. I take no offense at your remarks. Not everyone will agree with the approach given by Schnarch, although I still think it holds much greater promise than anything else I've read. My own disappointment (so far) is over my inability to apply it properly (so far). I take responsibility for that entirely. I have read enough of other peoples' posts here to see that the approach CAN and DOES work, if it is properly applied. I hope I can figure it out soon...

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I still make an effort to give her an O every time we ML. Usually I end up getting her aroused up to an O and then as she is in the afterglow, it is my turn. At that point she is willing but not ‘an active participant’. If I just ‘go to it’ without raising her arousal, it is very mechanical and not very fulfilling. I have tried getting her ‘close’ to an O, and then entering but she is disappointed that I didn’t just finish her O. She doesn’t seem to like oral by me, and seldom (almost never) reciprocates. Wow, that’s a lot of sexual details to throw out there….

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My first thought is that she needs to take responsibility for her own orgasm/arousal. Would you be offended if she,for instance, provided her own clitoral stimulation as you had sex with her or flipped you into a position where she could get a better "grind' or "grip".

My second thought is why don't you "finish her off" after the sex if she didn't orgasm during it?

If she doesn't like oral sex it is probably for one of the following reasons. She is uncomfortable with her own genitals, she is being overstimulated by your technique, she feels like you'll be disappointed if she doesn't orgasm so the pressure ruins it for her or you need a better razor.

Frankly, I think only very HD women do like giving head. There is nothing objectively appealing about the experience.

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Frankly, I think only very HD women do like giving head

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I can't speak for other LDWs but I never considered OS sex, so I have often offered OS in lieu of intercourse. I sang in college and learned to open up my throat, making it much easier to accept my partner into my throat. I enjoyed my partner's reaction to my prowess very much. My H, however doesn't seem to enjoy OS that much and because of dental work that went awry, I can't perform in my former capacity. Maybe it is a fantasy that I fulfilled long ago, so it doesn't make him hot anymore.

Meat,
I printed out your post and will be giving it to my HDH this evening. I want to see if his desires are in line with your post or if he has something else in mind. As I was reading, I felt like a lot of these things are completely overwhelming, but am willing to work on them. It is a tall order to fill. Although I don't think I would be considered classic LD (H and I ML 2-3 times weekly). Hs desire is daily+. I have been working towards this but have had a recent setback that I am currently trying to analyze.

Sorry CN. I should be careful not to generalize. I guess you are LD about being "done" or f*cking" but not about "doing" a guy. Also, giving head is one of my HD sisters least favorite activities because she has a very small mouth so she doesn't think she is very good at it.

I equate liking to give head with HD because my liking for it increased with my sexual maturity. When I was young I only did it for reasons of quid pro quo. Then I started enjoying it because of my partner's reaction and the fact that I thought I was good at it. Eventually I came to like it because I could easily get in sync with my partner's arousal while I was doing it. Also I guess that I just assumed that LD women just don't like c*cks as much as HD women since they can turn down sex for emotional reasons. I can be angry or disgusted with a man, but I have never been angry or disgusted with a c*ck.

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I can be angry or disgusted with a man, but I have never been angry or disgusted with a c*ck.

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OMG MM, you MUST put that quotation in your sig line!

- Heavyheart, who gives OS but never gets it

No offence taken MM.
It would have been nice if I was blessed with a H who appreicates good OS. Maybe it has something to do with having his whole experience wrapped up in my O.