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It's nice to see such a positive thread! I'm not in a very positive place in my life right now, so maybe hanging out with you guys will help me get my head back in the right place.

The one song I can think of that helps bring me out of a funk is Pink's "F---ing Perfect."

The lyrics are simple and beautiful (in their own way) and there is the added bonus of being able to yell out the obscenities while you sing along.

In the car.

While strangers in the next car are looking at you funny.

Hey SD, I was looking for you around here the other day. Wondered how you were, even looked at the photo of you on a roof. Hope you are well and I'm glad my experience can be helpful to others. And you don't know how much someone saying thanks for being you can mean...or maybe you do.

NG and ruby, it helped to unpack it here a little bit. When I realize where I started and where I am now, I feel strong! NG, I watched the latest in the Self-Acceptance Project last night-it was Brene' Brown on Shame Resilience. Tonight I'll watch Tara.

Yes, Psych77 love that Pink song, actually just about any Pink song. Thanks.

I need to get this outside my head so I'm going to post it here.

Yesterday I had a couple hours break in my workday so I came home for a bit. As I walked in I could hear the S20's psychologist (let's call him Dr R) leaving a message on the machine (yes, we still have one of those) for S20 that he had an appt at 1 and it was now 1:20 so he must not be coming and that he hoped everything was OK.

I didn't know there was an appt. We talk on Sun evenings about what's coming up in the week for both of us. Part of the reason for that is so I know when his appts are and can offer to help him get to them. He told me he didn't have any appts. FTR, I don't think he was lying, he just didn't remember. He used to miss a lot of appts, he's improved with that.

Calling Dr R was on my list of things to do. I check in with him occasionally but I leave the appts and rescheduling etc up to S. He may be chronologically 20 but the OCD many times keeps him from being a 20yo.

His daily schedule is back to his old routine of staying up all night and sleeping during the day. He doesn't go to school, he doesn't have job and has no interests outside of home. He does shower and change clothes which is a good thing because some folks don't. He also eats, another plus.

When I write that it makes it sound like he might need an aide but he doesn't, he's mentally capable in most things. He can be funny, charming, engaging just sometimes his brain locks.

Knowing that Dr R would have some free time since S wasn't at his appt, I called the office and asked to speak to him. We talked for the next 30 minutes about where we each see Joe now. I'm scared right now because we both see him really stuck and unable to move forward. Dr R doesn't have any suggestions at this point for how to move forward. He said he has discussed with Joe that sometimes after a period of time (S's been with him for 7 years) a new therapist is needed. S refuses to think about that. I've also brought this up with S, and got the same result. Dr R has a concern that if he stops seeing him, he won't see anyone else and he doesn't want that to happen.

Dr R also told me that S has just now begun to talk about the effect the b/u of the marriage has had on him. After 2 years he can finally begin to access that. I the beginning he put on his stone face and said it was between the 2 of us and had nothing to do with him, no effect at all. However he did suffer a very scary depression within the 6 mo post H leaving.

I asked Dr H if he thought this was the best S could be-he said he didn't want to think that and if that's true he would be categorized as chronically mentally ill. Even tho I've allowed myself to think that sometimes, hearing him say it was difficult. I love the son I was given but I so want him to have a good life.

From what Dr R told me, S isn't giving him the full picture. I think in some ways, S looks at him as another father/parental figure. One who is always kind and supportive, never harsh or disappointed. S wants to please him. Yes, this is mindreading but I think it's somewhat accurate, shame is such a huge component of OCD.

We talked about a few things we might do to spur S to want to make changes and I will look into that. I thought he might be able to continue to see Dr R occasionally but also see a new T, with a different approach. That might work.

I'm conflicted about telling the H. On the Sat that he came here at 0815 to pick up S, he was not happy that S wasn't up, gave him a few curt words, walked out to the garage where we talked and then he left. S then got up, got dressed and drove to the grandmother's house where they were going but by that time H was gone. S said he called his Dad but they didn't get together. I know he hasn't seen him since then.

Not mine, I know.

S deserves to have a dad who knows as much about what's going on as I do. I can't make him be there for him but I can keep him informed. I just don't want to. For once I'd like H to call and say, How's S doing?

Sticking your head in the sand is magical, all your problems disappear. I'll have to try it sometime.

Give me a shake folks, I need it.

Ignore the names of the innocent.

Bugsy - many times in life we are required to do things that we simply don't want to do. Sometimes it is galling that we would even consider it an obligation. BUT, in our hearts we know we must do it anyway.

I think keeping your H informed of your son's condition and progress or lack thereof is the right thing to do. The question I have is, can you tell him without having any expectations that he is going to do anything with the information?

I think that you are probably going to have to get used to the idea that all you can do and what you feel you must do, is simply keep him informed. Think of it like taking out the trash. No one likes to do it (except for maybe...well we all know about my problem with that ) but we do it anyway.

Keep your H informed but with the same level of detachment you would have if taking out the trash.

Hope this helps!

Tough stuff, Bug. I'm neither a parent nor a mental health professional. My take is that his current daily routine would lead anyone further down a non-productive path.

Have you read/heard Temple Grandin? She's pretty relentless about forcing kids with difficulties to do what needs to be done. Temporary or permanent label makes no difference. Easy or difficult, we all need to do what needs to be done. Just make sure that your help isn't helping him avoid the growing up he needs to do.

(((((((((((((((((Bug))))))))))))))))))

Yes, you do have the trash issue.

It's the expectation issue that makes me not want to contact him and I know that's my problem.

Your post stings a bit but makes me think. That's what I asked for.

I've thought about having him readmitted to the hospital but that's not as easy as it sounds. People his age are sort of at a loss for services that might help. When I think about forcing him the question is "How do your force a 160# 20 year old to do anything?"

I'm not discounting any of it and will continue to think.

Dr R and I talked yesterday about consequences as we have in the past. There are really no consequences for him and no carrots that entice him.

I have heard of Temple Grandin, I know she's autistic and a animal scientist/vet? I don't know of her work with children. I will look into that.

Thanks, I appreciate the sting.

I don't think Temple Grandin works with kids so much as offers insight to parents based on her (rather amazing) experience. Some of her talks are about cows and some about the human brain. P once went to one of the latter (perhaps hoping for insights for her ADHD son) and was struck by the attitude I mentioned.

Following the talk, an audience member asked something about her brother, who "can't even go to the grocery store". Temple's response was basically, "Yes he can! It may be excruciatingly unpleasant, but he has to learn to live in this world and do things for himself." P was struck by how insistent Temple was on this point.

Then again, the alternative is so disempowering. That may explain her strong response.

Didn't mean to sting. Just food for thought...

SD, it's all good, I wanted to shake up my thinking up. Sometimes you think you've done and tried everything but you really haven't.

What you describe is the basis for the most effective therapy for OCD, facing fears over and over and over, while not responding with whatever ritual or compulsion is that individual's anxiety reliever. It's grueling.

Your post definitely adjusted my attitude a bit and got me thinking outside my box.

He is gifted in many ways, we just need to figure out how to keep the focus on that and deal with the other.