M37 H36 M8 T12 inc 3yr L-dist 7/12:H broke down 10/12:H dad D frm W4. BD soon after 1/13:H wants to leave 2/13:H gpa passed. Feels closer but H still leaving 3/13: S begins
Question. Do you still hug/touch her when you see her?
That's interesting. one of my W's biggest complaints over the years was lack of hugging and affection. We had pretty much got to the point of not touching each other very often, maybe a hug here or a kiss there, but not all that often.
After BD, our MC suggested we try to be very nice to each other for a period of time. I think she was using the idea of fake it until you make it. That worked for about 5 days, without my wife ever really being on board. towards the end of the first week after BD, I tried some hugs and pecks on the cheek. While she didn't pull away, she also didn't really reciprocate. The last time I hugged her, I said "COME HERE and gave her a big smile and a warm hug when she was leaving. She responded with, "you really need to stop". I have't laid a finger on her since.....
I would really like to hear what others think about this. NOBODY has suggested anything like this before.
Hi SP, It must hurt to talk with W about dating. I read/heard somewhere to not have too much of a conversation with W about her dating. I really can't tell you why. I just remember with all the reading I did in the beginning.
Also, about your advice on LL - PT. I would say start with putting your hand on her shoulder, for example. If hugs are too pushing, try slight casual touches.
I believe I began to disconnect from H way back when he stopped PTs. Yesterday, he casually put his hand on my waist when we were moving around in the kitchen. That was big for me! I asked him for daily hugs and I noticed he's giving warmer hugs now.
I also asked him to hold my hand and although he said he would, he hasn't. And it's been over a month. This is really hurting me.
Just thought I'd share this with you. Hope it helps. BTW, my DB Coach, Laurie, suggested the casual touches. ;-)
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
I had lunch this afternoon to discuss W's living situation and hopefully put her at ease. I assured her that I was not going to chase her off with a torch and an angry mobb in the middle of the night. We had nice conversation, very friendly like.
During our conversation the topic of "dating" came up. THAT^^ should not have come up. Period. & You know this!...
and you ignored what I said about backing off and helping her feel relaxed around you.
You got the bomb drop last October? So it's been 6 months at most? ANd you have NOT Db'd that whole time...far from it.
I have to say, your timeline baffles me. So do all your assumptions.
And btw, when h and I sep, I dated, and so did he. I was lonely. I was interested in what was out there AND I was NOT working on the marriage at the time...
You know what I discovered about OMS? First, the good news...there are nice men out there in my age group, who I could develop a relationship with. That's reassuring. I don't think I'd be alone unless I wanted to be.
Secondly, I confirmed that my h and I were well suited. He LIKES that I'm smart and educated. (Some guys are threatened by it) H also takes care of his body and is in the best shape of any man I know his age...truly. I like that. He's well informed, & he gets my sense of humor, etc.
So although I was encouraged that decent men are out there,
MOSTLY I felt the absence of my h, MORE when I dated OMs...and I felt that he looked better than most men out there, by comparison.
So stop thinking all HER dating is going to equal great sex and that a "victory" for the new guy is a shoo in.
Every man I met had to get to know my sense of humor, my sarcasm, my tastes in food, music or politics. They each would have to get to know me. That takes time and energy and always highlights how little they know of you, COMPARED to your spouse...
AND btw, I did NOT sleep with anyone. I thought about it but I wasn't ready...I had the chance, often, but was NOT ready. I was attracted to one guy in particular, but was NOT ready...
H denies he slept with OWs and I choose to believe him. He chooses to believe me too...(or so I assume).
We started off light hearted and jokingly, but then I asked her if she had a boyfriend. She said NO. Then I asked her if she has been talking to anyone. None of this^^ should have happened. It's all self inflicted pain. THen you spread it to her...and truly, what was the point of all this?
I don't know what you are asking here...anything?
Sometimes SP, I think you're Just saying "hey guys, I poked myself in the eye AGAIN, and it hurts!!" Yes it does...so stop poking around.
She turned BEET RED and a vein stuck out in the middle of her forehead. She replied that she has been talking with someone, but only just rececently. I played it off by saying, "no big deal. If we are going to continue as friends we should be sharing".
That's about the worst idea you've had in awhile. NO, you do NOT share with her any of that. It's not smart, it's not healthy and it's harmful to all....you're nowhere NEAR ready to detach. PLUS, imo
This is about control or snooping or something OTHER than friendship and you know it. You are playing a silly but dangerous game my friend.
She did not wish to hear if I had been talking or dating, How healthy of HER^^^....so then I guess she does NOT want to know...any insight here SP? THink you should "keep sharing"? Ya know, since you guys are such good "friends"...
but did ask about a girl she say posting on my FB. She stalked her page, so I know she was searching for information about a possible OW. There isn't one. Anyway, we ended lunch on a good note and went about our business.
yeah...sure. I bet SHE felt GREAT afterwards...like how you feel now??
Later in the afternoon She started "the texts". Her first one went like this:
So I am curious. At this point of where we are at, are you ok with me dating?
My reply:
Sure...I mean if you think that is what you want to do. I mean, you know how I feel in regards to giving us time to heal and build a new relationship....but I'm supportive of whatever you think is best for you and (Daughter.
what an odd, insincere reply...why on earth would you tell her this?^^^ You had the perfect chance to make your case FOR THE MARRIAGE, WITHOUT BEING CONTROLLING
and maybe take a SMALL RISK by showing your feelings a bit, but nope man, I gotta say I don't get the game you're playing.. was it to pretend you don't care about her? B/C that's what I would have picked on FIRST no matter what else you also said, all i would hear is that you don't care if I'm with another man...and those are not words I'd expect from someone I thought wanted a reconciliation.
I would like us to be open about it. I would prefer it not to be a secret that I find out about by word of mouth. I would like to hear it from you. I will show you the same respect.
No I would NOT be interested in details of your love life w/OMs b/c I still see you in a certain way and I still want our marriage to be restored...but if you do choose to date and IF it becomes serious enough to involve our d, OR if you know I'll find out about it from others, I'd prefer it come from you first." [b] and I want to be clear that there would be no other opertunitues for our marriage and our realtionship would have to change. what does that ^^^mean? You want to be friends and "share" details of your love life with each other for some insanely masochistic reason
BUT if that happens, then the r will change..?? Well, yeah AND it already will have changed, since you just told her to go ahead and date... As soon as i sent this reply, I realized I gave her an ultimatum. Probably not the way I should have worded it, but it is the way I feel. We went back and forth reitterating pretty much the same messages. I told her over and over again that I supported whatever she thought was the best for her and D. I thought you believed an intact family was best for your d? What happened to the that? What about being the best man you can be, as a father and husband first? Do you want to be her pal, or her mate?
We jokes a few times about giving each other dating advice. At one point she said, "It is really weird to have you affirm my feelings. I am not used to it. It seems scripted I joking said, thats because I am reading it from a self help book, silly! She laughed and said she was sorry. it just isn't something she is used to. the conversation closed about some D stuff. She is doing terrible in school and really struggling. We are talking about putting her into counseling. Wife now sees that this separation is affecting her, but still will not acknowledge to what degree.
but you just told your w that her dating is fine...so you didn't put your d first either. If she dates OMs and that means it's over for the m, then what's the difference between you and she in terms of priorities for your d?
I think you put your pride first to pretend nothing bothered you. But I can't tell for sure, honestly...you sound very confused and you must be sending out very confusing messages to your w.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I had lunch this afternoon to discuss W's living situation and hopefully put her at ease. I assured her that I was not going to chase her off with a torch and an angry mobb in the middle of the night. We had nice conversation, very friendly like.
During our conversation the topic of "dating" came up. THAT^^ should not have come up. Period. & You know this!...
and you ignored what I said about backing off and helping her feel relaxed around you.
No. I didn't know this. I had no idea that I wasn't supposed to talk about it with her. I don't feel comfortable talking about it, but I thought I was supposed to "act as if"
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
We started off light hearted and jokingly, but then I asked her if she had a boyfriend. She said NO. Then I asked her if she has been talking to anyone. None of this^^ should have happened. It's all self inflicted pain. THen you spread it to her...and truly, what was the point of all this?
I don't know what you are asking here...anything?
Sometimes SP, I think you're Just saying "hey guys, I poked myself in the eye AGAIN, and it hurts!!" Yes it does...so stop poking around.
I wasn't trying to inflict self pain. I honestly thought that I was supposed to act as though I was fine with whatever she chose to do with her life, because I am "moving on with my own life, with her or without". I clearly misinterpreted this portion of DB.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
She turned BEET RED and a vein stuck out in the middle of her forehead. She replied that she has been talking with someone, but only just rececently. I played it off by saying, "no big deal. If we are going to continue as friends we should be sharing". [/b]
That's about the worst idea you've had in awhile. NO, you do NOT share with her any of that. It's not smart, it's not healthy and it's harmful to all....you're nowhere NEAR ready to detach. PLUS, imo
This is about control or snooping or something OTHER than friendship and you know it. You are playing a silly but dangerous game my friend.
Again, I thought that was how I was SUPPOPSED to play this. I am not intentionally trying to play any games. I am not trying to snoop and I am not trying to control. I didn't even realize i was doing damage.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
She did not wish to hear if I had been talking or dating, How healthy of HER^^^....so then I guess she does NOT want to know...any insight here SP? THink you should "keep sharing"? Ya know, since you guys are such good "friends"...
No, clearly I handled this wrong.I just didn't realize what I was doing
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
but did ask about a girl she say posting on my FB. She stalked her page, so I know she was searching for information about a possible OW. There isn't one. Anyway, we ended lunch on a good note and went about our business.
yeah...sure. I bet SHE felt GREAT afterwards...like how you feel now??
In retrospect, I am sure you are right. I didn't feel great, but I was not crushed by this conversation.obviously it made my W very uncomfortable.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Later in the afternoon She started "the texts". Her first one went like this:
So I am curious. At this point of where we are at, are you ok with me dating?
My reply:
Sure...I mean if you think that is what you want to do. I mean, you know how I feel in regards to giving us time to heal and build a new relationship....but I'm supportive of whatever you think is best for you and (Daughter.
what an odd, insincere reply...why on earth would you tell her this?^^^ You had the perfect chance to make your case FOR THE MARRIAGE, WITHOUT BEING CONTROLLING
and maybe take a SMALL RISK by showing your feelings a bit, but nope man, I gotta say I don't get the game you're playing.. was it to pretend you don't care about her? B/C that's what I would have picked on FIRST no matter what else you also said, all i would hear is that you don't care if I'm with another man...and those are not words I'd expect from someone I thought wanted a reconciliation.
I see what you are saying. however, I have been extremely clear with her that I want to reconcile, that I love her and I wish to keep our family intact. She KNOWS this. I felt that by acting nonchalant, that perhaps that would come off as mysterious and that she stood the chance of losing me all together. I did not realize this was a time for me to take a risk and share my true feelings, because I thought that would come off as pressure, which I am not supposed to do. I feel I was just putting it back in her court.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I would like us to be open about it. I would prefer it not to be a secret that I find out about by word of mouth. I would like to hear it from you. I will show you the same respect.
No I would NOT be interested in details of your love life w/OMs b/c I still see you in a certain way and I still want our marriage to be restored...but if you do choose to date and IF it becomes serious enough to involve our d, OR if you know I'll find out about it from others, I'd prefer it come from you first."
basically what I was saying, just worded slightly different. I was not asking for specific details, just if she was dating anyone. I also made it clear in the rest of the text that I wanted to rebuild our marriage. I think I hit on the same keys points as you mentioned.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
[b] and I want to be clear that there would be no other opertunitues for our marriage and our realtionship would have to change. what does that ^^^mean? You want to be friends and "share" details of your love life with each other for some insanely masochistic reason
BUT if that happens, then the r will change..?? Well, yeah AND it already will have changed, since you just told her to go ahead and date...
I interpret this completely different. I didn't tell her to date. I told her that was a choice for her, and that I would support whatever choice she makes. I made it clear that I wished to rebuild our marriage. I did not ask for details of her love life, simply to be informed that she was dating and moving forward with her life. I don't feel that was masochistic. I simply did not want to be blindsided by it, or to find out by hearing the "rumor".
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
As soon as i sent this reply, I realized I gave her an ultimatum. Probably not the way I should have worded it, but it is the way I feel. We went back and forth reitterating pretty much the same messages. I told her over and over again that I supported whatever she thought was the best for her and D. I thought you believed an intact family was best for your d? What happened to the that? What about being the best man you can be, as a father and husband first? Do you want to be her pal, or her mate?
I wish to be both.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
We jokes a few times about giving each other dating advice. At one point she said, "It is really weird to have you affirm my feelings. I am not used to it. It seems scripted I joking said, thats because I am reading it from a self help book, silly! She laughed and said she was sorry. it just isn't something she is used to. the conversation closed about some D stuff. She is doing terrible in school and really struggling. We are talking about putting her into counseling. Wife now sees that this separation is affecting her, but still will not acknowledge to what degree. but you just told your w that her dating is fine...so you didn't put your d first either. If she dates OMs and that means it's over for the m, then what's the difference between you and she in terms of priorities for your d?
[color:#990000]the difference is, she is going to date with or without my blessing. I only have control over my own actions. My D is my first priority, but I cannot control my wifes actions.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I think you put your pride first to pretend nothing bothered you. But I can't tell for sure, honestly...you sound very confused and you must be sending out very confusing messages to your w.
my intention was not to come off as confusing. I can see from your reply to me that I played this VERY VERY wrong. I just didn't know the proper way to handle it. So much of DBing is completely counter intuitive, but it appears in this situation I should have handled it just how my head would have told me to. I just hit a foul ball on this one. no other way to explain myself.
My Birthday party went well, lots of friends and good times. At one point, we had about 35 people in my makeshift home theater watching the UFC fights....thats GAL, right there..haha
W messaged me prior to the party, asking again if I was okay with her attending. I said that it was fine and I would like to have her there. She came and stayed until almost the very end. She was friendly, but mentioned that it felt weird that the other girls in our group of freinds were hosting the party. Not much I could say there.
With what was mentioned earlier about physical contact, it was strange to me that W actually initiated some. She stood next to me for a period of time with an arm around me. A couple friendly strokes on the shoulder, that sort of thing. However, she was definitely knee deep in the wine at that point, so I am going to take it for what it was worth, a little affection that felt nice.
This part is heresay, but at one point during the party W was heard to be in the bathroom with a relative, crying and expressing that she was "soo confused". I am not sure if that had anything to do with her feelings for me or the lunch fiasco/dating discussion. Again, I won't read anything into it.
towards the end of the first week after BD, I tried some hugs and pecks on the cheek. While she didn't pull away, she also didn't really reciprocate. The last time I hugged her, I said "COME HERE and gave her a big smile and a warm hug when she was leaving. She responded with, "you really need to stop". I have't laid a finger on her since.....
Sandi has posted a lot of insight into how WAW's think, and I remember one of the things she mentioned was that the WAW just does not see their LBS husband in any romantic way at all and they do NOT want ANY physical touching. They can in fact find it repulsive. I too tried to push the hugging/ kissing stuff with W but her response was to slap me over and over on the back like I was some creepy uncle she didn't really want to touch, LOL! I finally just stopped doing it. It was several months before W started initiating hugs, but now she moves in for a hug nearly every time I see her. So that would be my suggestion, just pull back and wait and see if she eventually starts initiating.
That's just it. My W has never been one to initiate. She has been making an effort to be clear that we will "be friends", nothing more. She says she simply doesn't have the feeling of love for me any longer, says it's been gone for a long time and it is too far gone to get it back. She even made a point of writing in my birthday card that she hopes we can always be friends.......then she gets drunk and stands next to me with her arm around me. It threw everyone for a loop. including me...Just confusing!
