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M1,
I've been looking out the window and just now you've helped me look into the window. Meaning that I'm seeing W's side now. Yeah, it's good to be listened to and heard. Because of what I learned out of DR, she may not have been receiving it the same way from me.

Thanks for the tip on reading 5LL twice. I definitely will. I'm not afraid of the initial slap in the face. I do want to change for the better so that the next gal whether it's my W or someone else, will benefit from all the hard work I've done to improve and I'll be fortunate enough to try again and succeed by learning from my mistakes.

I agree. I need to figure out what it means to ME. I've already figured what my career options mean to me and what will be best for me. Now I need to figure out the R factors.

Well even though GAL may not be an issue, it helps me keep the R off my mind. Believe it or not, I thought about it all the time before the BD.

I see the point about the stuff. It makes sense.
The last time I put her first was to make sure I was at her graduation despite just arriving at this location. 10 days later, I flew up to be there. Most bosses would not be willing to let a new person do that. However, I asked before arriving and my boss had no problem. It was great to have shared her milestone and see her so happy.

It's interesting the word "martyrdom" appeared. My IC said the same word today in reference to, "Why would I go and be in a position of being in a location that is near the children, yet I might be in a sitch where W and I don't get along and I'm in a job I don't like but am limited for options?" IC said that would be an act of martyrdom.
I do believe that those 4 words don't help strengthen a marriage. I am ready to be different and have a better marriage. As far as I'm concerned the marriage we had is now dead. I would much rather have a new one with my W and leave the other one behind. Or have a new one with someone else.

Continue to walk with me M1. I'm ready for a new journey. Thanks!

Holy cow! Tonight I just got a call from W. She first said that the home phone had died and that's why there was no communication for a week. They had to buy a new one. Then she asked if I had time to talk. I told her I'll listen while she talks. She called it quits with OM. She said I was right about her "wandering without direction" and she went for the closest male to give her what I haven't. She said that she's been mad at me for many years and she feels like I've let her down. I told her that I understand how she feels and don't blame her and I did not intend to hurt her, but I failed and want to learn from my failure either with or without her. She said she had gone out of town to a girlfriend's to just disconnect from things and have time to think(that would be the other week of non-communication).

I kept my cool and didn't get over-excited and simply used it as time to validate her feelings and apologize for all the specific things that has hurt her through the years. I told her I don't expect this phone call to fix things, but I needed to apologize. I also told her of what I shared with M1 about "looking in the window." She said I was on the right track with how she's felt. Also about the "stuff," she doesn't want it cause it represents the emotional neglect. M1, you were spot on with that. I told her that I apologize for putting possessions before her emotional needs.

She's still moving into a smaller flat due to money (which will help her and me in the long run), and I said I was considering coming up in May. She asked if it would be possible to come up the same time as her move so I could help. I said I'd consider it. I ended the conversation with a "thank you for telling me this" and "it was good talking with you" and wished her a good night.

I definitely didn't see this coming. However, the W I spoke with sounded like the W I used to know. I'll keep learning though. I'm not out of the woods by a long shot!

This isn't the "end" , so don't think in those terms..

This COULD be a new beginning though....


Stay on YOUR course, and I will get back a little later, when there is more time....

RS - Just got caught up on your sitch and I have to say I'm shocked how strong a woman your W is. These last 9 years had to be very tough and lonely on her. Not beating you up at all, just pointing it out. Glad you're starting to see her side, that will help you.

Sounds like your last call went pretty well so good job validating. This has to be your main goal with future talks with her. Don't talk about how tou're improving, how you want to be better for someone else, or anything like that. Just listen and validate her and tey not to talk much about you at all. You need to figure out what love means to you but other questions I have:

What does a good M look like to you?

Why is a career more important to you than a chance at R'ing your M?

Where does your W rank in your priorities?

Have you thought about what she meant by you letting her down?

What goals do you have for you to change?


Your sitch is different, that's for sure so most things I'm asking are a little different than normal. I'm basing this on only a couple posts but seems to me the biggest issue is you've been completely detached for years and your W has felt very alone. Once you figure out a few things I think actually engaging with W may be the way to go. Let's see where this takes us.

Know this journey isn't going to be easy and the guys following you won't be holding back. You ready for another boot camp? It will change your life!

Thanks M1 and Spartan! One question. Our A is on Monday. Is it too early in this process to give a gift? I did send a card that simply stated "It's still worth remembering. Thank you for being a great mother to our children."
My original idea (before the BD) was a spa experience because she works so hard and takes care of the children while I'm here thousands of miles away.

Spartan,

I am appalled that you are shocked by how strong his W is.

She had no choice but to be that strong. And that strength, is what makes ending the M not as difficult or scary an option as might be with other WAS.


From a woman's perspective...

When you live basically on your own, regardless of the reasons, you know that you are capable and strong. You know that you can manage the house, the children, your life, without another person involved. So, while you may WANT that person in your life, you know you don't NEED that person.

I lived that sort of a M and it was difficult because my wants and my emotional needs weren't being met, which, for a woman, is very important in a relationship.

Much more important than financial needs, career needs, etc...

After my M ended, eventually, I became involved in a long distance relationship.

Was I stupid? I mean, I was basically putting myself into a very similar type of relationship that I had in my M, in terms of time together.

I knew by this time what I actually needed from a relationship, which was to feel loved, cherished, special, have time and attention, regardless of the rest of life swirling around me, I was willing to take a chance and see what happened.

I knew that I was capable of managing my life, without a man present daily. What I gained, that was different from my M, was a man, who was present daily even if he was half way across the country. He was there when I needed to talk. He was there every night to say goodnight. He was there every morning to say hello. Sometimes in voice, sometimes in text. He responded to emails and texts as quickly as possible because that was a means of communication for us. He kept me in love with him with the words, the tone of his voice, the communication... He romanced me virtually. He made me feel desired daily. He made me feel important to him. He was with me via phone when something important was happening, or something that he would have been present physically for if he was closer. He problem solved with me. He listened, he talked, he dreamed with me. He met my emotional needs very well during that time and I never doubted that he loved me and I believed that we would eventually remove the distance. And that happened after a few years.


RS,

Can you say that you have met your W's emotional needs?

Have you made her a part of your life even across the space?

Or have you been marking time until you could be together?

It's OK Spartan and cat04. I'm amazed myself. That's why she's a good woman and friend. I'd like to say "lover," but we need work on that first. One thing at a time.

Well first of all, good news! I got my very own copy of 5LL from our chapel. So I can read it as many times as I need. I also haven't forgotten about the homework that M1 gave me. I need to think about the following things this weekend:
-Figure out what love means to me (5LL will hopefully help me with that)
-What is my def of a good M?
-Career vs. R & family and why?
-My ranking of W in priorities
-How can I prevent from letting W down again?
-My goals for change

I saw my IC today, it was her last day (they rotate in 3 mo cycles). I was so pleased to give her some better news. She said I've come a long way from when I first saw her in Feb. I also told her about this forum and she believes that I'm getting some real sage guidance. I believe it too. I'll miss her because she really helped me crack my shell in order to start taking care of me and (at that time) to realize that W may not be the one for me, and I need to be strong for my kids.
She also gave the gift of continued fitness to me by giving me the Insanity workout set. I had just finished P90X (which was given to me by W on my B-day 3 years ago) and she said, "why don't you keep going with this?" I was blown away and now I'm starting my 2nd month of the workout and getting awesome results. So awesome that I'm considering going to the gym to workout after I complete Insanity. I had a bit of a self-esteem issue when going to the gym before, so I prefer to workout at home.

Anyways, my IC suggested for the first step forward from last night's phone call would be just to ask W if it would be OK to SKYPE with the kids so we can see one another. Everything else, just let her introduce thoughts or ideas as they come and just focus on the kids for now. Don't try to force any reconciliation just yet. I think it sounds like a good plan.

Cat04,
You're correct in how W was thinking. In fact, when she BD'd she stated that she didn't want to be married. Not married to me. She was declaring that independence.

All of those needs that your long distance R met, I failed in. I realize that I will need to start from scratch on those and strive to do better. It was amazing that when I asked her if she felt all those things that M1 had pointed out to me, that she said, "yes." For the first time I realized how closed-minded I was without really intending to be.

She said she's been angry with me for YEARS! I couldn't imagine the strength she had to have and still has to be holding out this long.
At this point I hope that my apologies last night have helped begin to reduce the anger she's felt because she's a wonderful person and doesn't deserve to feel that way all the time.

Cat04, I have NOT met my W's emotional needs. I've come to realize that. She hasn't been a part of my life as much as I should have made her a part. Yes, I have been biding my time and making plans that when this is enlistment is done, we could live happily ever after. Not a well thought out plan I'm realizing now.

Since she'll be moving in May to a smaller flat, I'm planning on making sure I'm up there so I can help, be there to have the opportunity to show a lot of action (do the little things I failed to do and express to her that I do cherish her) and maybe start the healing process.

I thank everyone who has chimed in and given their experience. This is helping me so much! I have only shared this sitch with a handful of confidants so this is a great outlet for me. I look forward to more.

Slow down there Tiger......







I still see some things here...

I see that it was important for you to be "right" about what is "wrong" with her.

I still see you trying to talk your way out of this. You have to understand that your ACTIONS are what got you in, and talking won't get you out.

Imagine if you will, that you had made a mistake about something, and when you came clean about it, the person you were telling, gave you a smirk, with an " I told you so" look...

That is what I see when I read what you typed.

Oh, and that should clear up why one shouldn't "mindread" too...

It's never what one expects to be happening.....




One reason why I want you to continue to define what Love means to you...

Is that I'm not convinced that you truly understand how much damage has been done. And to apologize for this now, would only be touching the tip of the Iceberg.

I see an apology at this point, without fully understanding, as as a tool to get your way, so be careful there. So you read a book, and you feel bad, what is stopping you from falling back into poor behavior patterns ??

Yea, what you said was good, and you did finally understand the importance of validation, or at least you are starting to. Yet to say that you can fully apologize ?

Not just yet....

Maybe something like....

I can't begin to imagine the hurt that you have felt over the years, with me putting everything else ahead of you, and I do not want to assume your feelings. I would like to take some time, to hear you fully, and to take a look at my role in the hurt that I have caused before I say that I am sorry, or that I could ever understand what you feel. I am sorry , yet to the depths of that, I am unsure. And it would only make a mockery of your feelings, to assume that I know.

???




Me thinks, that you have some work to do first....

Keep listening to her, and open your ears more than your mouth

: )





That is true....

And I think that you are trying to skate your way through...

You have a LOT of unanswered questions up there ^^^^

Read through those posts again buddy, and start asking them, then see what you come up with.

Well great job of validating here. But be very careful of expectations, take it from me, they can really derail your efforts. You see some positive signs, you start getting lofty expectations, they aren't met and then you want to give up and call it quits. I've been there, learn from my mistakes!! Stick to your DB'ing, stick to validating your W, and stick to LISTENING to her and following through on her complaints about you. Her dissatisfaction didn't happen over night, it took months or years. It's going to take just as long for her to learn to trust you and have faith in you again. Just be very patient.



Drop the expectations!! You have a long road ahead and there will be ups and downs. Prepare for them. Don't jump up 10' when your W jumps 5' because then if she dips 5' you'll dip 10'.

Good luck!