Bruce, either there's a complete failure of language comprehension going on here, or you're just the most arrogant and stubborn person on the face of the Earth. 2 X 4's haven't made any progress, let's see how being thrown under a bus works...
Bruce, the following applies to you at levels I have never seen in one person:
Denial - you refuse to accept full responsibility for YOUR part in your M failing. Your actions lead to your W building a wall and taking the steps she needed to protect her and her son. Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing while expecting different results - your W proved she's not insane by making the changes she did. Just because you were/are married to her does not grant you automatic forgiveness for your pathological behavior.
Victimization - you have consistently made yourself out to be a victim at the hands of your W. The real victim in this is your son - you have communicated a level of ineptitude at relating to (seriously, an Android tablet for a two year old - that shows a complete lack of responsibility on your part to even consider such a gift) and taking care of your son (how long did it take you to actually learn to change a diaper? Not to mention entertaining the thoughts of leaving and thinking he'd understand 20 years from now), whom you claim to care so much about . Your W took the steps she did to PROTECT herself and her son BECAUSE of your actions, irresponsible nature and ineptitude.
Demonization - In every post where you claim to take responsibility, you ultimately turn back to blaming your W for everything that is wrong in your life. Try to remember this - anytime you point your finger at someone to blame them, there are three fingers pointing back at you. Everyone on this forum has seen it and tried to guide to a better place - you refuse to go and continue to blame your W for everything.
Arrogance - It takes a massive amount of arrogance and self-absorption to always talk about others being at fault. You claim to admit to your faults, but, as noted by so many you've made ZERO PROGRESS at addressing yours! Shouldn't you be walking on water by now?
Martyr - every time someone attempts tough love or uses a 2 X 4 on you to try and get thru to you, Bruce, you act like you're being abused, treated unfairly by your W and the people here. You're not! You simply refuse to accept the reality of the situation and your responsibility for it.
Bruce, I am a Christian man; and I NEVER quote my religion or the Bible to defend my actions or marital beliefs. Just because I'm a Christian does not mean I expect my wife to live in an unhappy environment, nor would I expect my children to be raised in one just to accommodate me.
I have made many mistakes in my M and it may not be able to be saved. The difference between you and I? I fully understand my part, my W's feelings and her choices; and I'm ready to accept whatever the eventual outcome is. You still try to blame your W for all of your misery, what kind of message will that send to your son?
Your wife did not break the family Bruce. You broke the family by not being there for them. By neglecting your son and your wife.
Now I'm done.
I don't believe this. Most of us on here have made some awful mistakes but every human is capable of that. There are plenty of things I wish I had done or didn't do etc.
I'm much like MWD where I don't believe divorce is an acceptable solution to marital problems (within reason of course).
If you "don't believe this" it's probably b/c you have not read the whole thread...as we all have. I've followed Bruce since about day 1.
AND as MWD says, marriages ought to stay together, "within reason of course" -that is KEY HERE.
You really really need to read his whole thread, as I have, to speak to this.
I began to list the things he did & did not do, for you to know why we are ALL saying what we are ALL saying (which is very unusual)
but it's literally too time consuming.
I support marriages as best I can, obviously. But this man, Bruce, at least in how he writes, has changed less than anyone I know, or he's changed for the worse, and my words have done nothing to help him in any meaningful way. So maybe YOU can get through to him but it won't be by coddling and enabling and letting him see himself STILL as a victim.
...don't project your situation onto him. I've written and spent dozens of hours writing to him and researching for him and trying to empathize AND help him to empathize with his wife but he's unable to do that.
WHICH it think is the core of love for someone. If you literally cannot empathize, with your spouse, you have a serious problem saying you "love" them.
I've tried HARD to show him the truth about his role in things but he can only hold onto to the truth for minutes before the truth is too painful for him. So he reverts. Repeatedly, which is very frustrating for those of us who have been trying for weeks to help him.
I regret that I cannnot reach him. But when you jump in and blurt out things that go against all that you are reading, surely it must occur to you that you might want to know more...first?
The fact is, he's here, fighting for his marriage. In my mind that's something to be very proud of.
"The fact is"--- He's not fighting FOR his marriage. I WISH!
He's fighting his wife over money & time with his son. He's willing to trade time with his son for money. Always has been willing to use his son as a pawn to get her to come back. He wants to WIN. BTW---
Last week he said he wanted to abandon her and his son to live in Africa, so he would not have to pay a cent, and he could just start over and have a new family.
Today he criticized some of the younger musicians he plays with, for not being real Christians...I see hypocrisy & false pride. I see someone who wants to take splinters out of others eyes and ignore the plank in his own.
But of course, that abandonment plan was last week's...and he intimated that is STILL his plan B, for when June rolls around...til then, HE's decided he'll obey the law.
After that, who knows? No, I'm afraid I don't call that fighting for his marriage.
I call that blaming, manipulating, controlling, whining, and STUBBORNLY repeatedly, playing the victim card. It's the most consistent behavior of his, and trying to control his wife. Even the IC he saw said he cannot control her, and that "disappointed" him...even now.
And to put it as gently as possible, I see a man who needs emotional and spiritual help, badly. At one point here, we ALL did. So there's no shame in it.
But his pride will keep him from getting that help. For that, he may lose all that matters to him...that's very sad for me.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
For that, he may lose all that matters to him...that's very sad for me.
I'm finding myself questioning what DOES matter to Bruce. His wife? His son? Winning? He accuses his W of only wanting to win, to beat him, but, his posts seem to indicate what 25 stated - he wants to win and for people to see things the way he does. That's not fighting for anything except control...
Hello, I'm thinking of what has been said here. Some or it is partially true, but it's not exactly like that either.. Let me think and reply as best as i can. Bruce.
Me:34 ; W:28 Son: almost 2. Married : 14 March 2009 DBomb : 18 June 2012 Separated since Jan 2012 (different countries) Same country and city since July 2012
Hello, I know I must seem the archetype of the bad husband at times, but that's only because I have the courage to vent here freely. Yes, the thought of leaving everything crossed my mind, because the suffering was unbearable. I didn't indulge in the fantasy nor acted on it.
And maybe I have this control problem, always wanting to do something to try and get W back. But I learnt to let go and not contact her, not give her gifts, only talk about son, be courteous and not more. Trying to say I was sorry and forgive me's wasn't working. As for my changes, it all starts with the heart. I think I see W's point of view. This doesn't mean I agree, just that iam able to see her point. To prove it, I am going in her shoes for you: "Bruce isn't a bad guy in the sense mean, but he always wants to be right, is selfish and never really cared for me or Brucie. Now he claims he wants Brucie but that is not his real character."
True, because of my inability to empathise, W felt neglected, and that she didn't count. And i've been struggling with the idea of what to do to make W see that I got it and that from now on I would strive to be more available and sensitive to her?
But it's almost moot point now. I don't see W, only communicate by email and get the cold shoulder (although i'm trained to not expect anything), so i'm miles from convincing W that now i am transformed. So what is left to fight for? Well, my son. Time with my son is obtained with difficulty, through lawyers, court and thousand of dollars nevermind wife trusting me again and asking me to take care of S.
One last thing your advice is useful. I am only slower than others be patient I thank you so much 4 your help.
have a good sunday bye now, bruce.
Me:34 ; W:28 Son: almost 2. Married : 14 March 2009 DBomb : 18 June 2012 Separated since Jan 2012 (different countries) Same country and city since July 2012
But Bruce out of all of the stories here, mine included, I think you are one of the people that has to AGREE with her point of view, not just acknowledge it. You said you were never there for her, and didnt hslp with baby stuff. Thats huge Bruce. Im not trying to beat you up. There is nothing you can do to change what has already happened.
But I think you would be well served to start realizing that you left her to do everything on her own in one of the most critical times in a womans life..the birth of their first baby. You needed to be there for her, to help her, to be by her side, to change diapers, to stay up all night with her when the baby is sick or isnt sleeping well, to fall asleep with your baby kn your shoulder in the rocking chair so that your wife can get a few hours of horizontal time in bed. Dont minimize this! It will not help you get her back because she will always he able to see that you still think you did nothing wrong.
I did a of that, and more for my wife. But I messed up on something different. As much as we dont agree with hiw they are handling their issues, we must agree with the fact that some of their complaints are true. Its the only hope you have to piece your family back together.
You can be that guy. It is in you, somewhere. And when you find that person, you will cherish the tims with your son and it will show on you. And then maybe your wife will soften. You have heard the ladies on here tell you and all of us men lbs that a woman finds it extremely attractive when a man is a good fathed. I mean truely good, not just to look good to her. She wants a father for her baby.....dont think for one second that a woman doesnt want the father of her child to be a good daddy, and a good husband. She wants that more than yiu know! She just doesnt think you are capable....prove her wrong Bruce.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
""Bruce isn't a bad guy in the sense mean, but he always wants to be right, is selfish and never really cared for me or Brucie. Now he claims he wants Brucie but that is not his real character.""
Trust me, this is NOT your W's point of view.
You writing this and saying that it's how your W feels, shows how little you understand her. She left you and DOES see you as the mean and bad guy. She feels you are selfish and never really cared for her and STILL is the selfish and mean guy and WILL NOT change.
Why do you think she refuses to even see you? As far as I can tell, no one I've come across on these boards for as long as I have, has had a spouse that didn't have ANY face to face confrontation with the LBS. Your W is done because she (and others here) see that you haven't changed from the selfish, self-righteous man you've become.
Last time I checked, there was only ONE man who could walk on water, and I'm sorry to say that it wasn't you.
It's why many people, including 25, have mentioned that they've given up on you. Because you don't change. It's why your W hasn't come back.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Bruce's reply, which was after the dramatic swings between admitting feeling utter despair and suicidal thoughts at times,
OR fantasizing about fleeing to other continents so he could avoid seeing his son (who'd "understand later that Bruce was powerless"-which I think NO son has ever understood in history) and "starting over with another woman and having a NEW family like his cousin did",
OR ruminating about giving it all over to wife...
Bruce said that he does not need meds or a support group. Also said he just saw "the best c in the city" and she told him he can't control his wife...
He seemed to know that, yet he said he was "So disappointed".
I'm Not sure if that's more cognitive dissonance, (saying one thing but thinking another) or language translation problems,
or a disconnect between what his mind knows and the emotional knowledge that is lagging behind. But according to him, as of last week, NO meds.
Before that, like last summer, might be a different story.
Like I said Bruce, no shame in getting help. The real shame is living miserably and doing nothing healthy about it. You and your son deserve a healthy Bruce.
Otherwise your moods will still swing and suffer and you'll probably say or do more things you regret.
Patience/Perserverance are admirable traits.
Stubborness is self destructive and takes others with you. Make sure you distinguish between those three.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
