Well thank you, I hardly feel as though patience has been used to describe me often. And it certainly wasn't me when I was dealing with what you are ( or very similar).
I CHOSE to become patient, and I know that you can do the same.
The people that are posting to you, have all been where you are. And even though they appear to have it mostly figured out, WE all started doing the things that you are doing.
The mindreading and over thinking, over anal-izing (yes, I meant to spell it that way).
We were all that way until we chose to be different , adn not to let the actions of our wayward spouses define how we wanted to act.
That choice is yours to make as well, and we are all here to help you get there...
The only thing in the way, is you have to chose to do that work...
And when you are ready, I will point you back to your first couple threads, and see how much support that you have here....
I'm not going to speak for PON here....
The frustrations....???
I would assume that you really strike some old feelings in him, of a person that he has zero interest in being again.
And he is trying to save you that pain, because you really do inflict a lot of it on yourself....
Telling your W to lose OM or D...yea, not going to make you feel any better & she will probably chose OM. I find making any decisions while in pain & turmoil is a bad idea. My decisions & boundaries that I know I need to do stay when I'm calm. when my H wanted to move forward with our R while keeping IW as a FB friend & being secretive with his phone, I knew that wasn't going to work for me. I stated I needed those things or we separate. I did not do that to get him to do anything. Frankly, I knew he'd move out. It was my truth.
My H is in a full on EA/PA right now. Can't decide between her & I. Still puts the moves on me, and up until Friday I told him I'm not in an open marriage. I did it, and now feel like junk. So, I won't anymore. If you are sleeping with her & sexting her expecting to be the only one in her life that she is doing that with, then you have your answer. Dont do it then.
I know your pain all too well!!! This weekend was painful for me. I got obsessed with thinking about my H & OW, I'm less than, what does she have that I done...bam!! Sucs! But, it hurts less now than in the beginning because I have tools. I've never missed a day of work during this. Now, I've been totally unproductive but I go. I do things I enjoy, try to snap my brain out if the obsessive thinking. This is NOT about us being less than. Nothing anyone does is a reason for someone to cheat. It does not define my self worth, it defines my H's. All I can do is work on being a better person for me, for my kuds.
HUGS!!!!! This place is hard!!
M: 9 yrs T: 13 yrs H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs Dbing 12/12 S 1/13 7/13 H moved back in basement. 8/13 #3 born 10/13 still cheating 10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
JP, I hope you get some much needed rest. When you awake go outside and take a nice long walk if its nice outside. Start thinking about what you really want in life and how you plan on getting there. I dont have a confirmed OM in my sitch. So i cant speak to exactly how that feels. But i will say there was a weekend a month and half ago where i did some snooping of epic portions and it didn't make me feel better, only worse. For those couple days I was where you are right now. Like I said in an earlier post, it got better when I finally told myself there is nothing I can do to stop it or control even if something is going on anyways. I also believed in my case that I did have some responsibilty for her getting to that point if she actually had. The one questio I had to answer was, "does it change things?" Meaning if I did find out for sure would I not want my W back. My conclusion was no! It wouldnt change anything and I would still want to at least try and work on our marriage. My W is in FLorida all week with a couple of guys. Guess what, for all i know she could be having a threesome every night. But she could also be telling them that she is having second thoughts and wants to work on our marriage. The point is I have no way of knowing for sure. You have control over your thoughts and actions. Once you realize you have that control it will get easier. PMA!!!!
M 37 W 30 S 7 Together 10 years Married 9 years BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day) I moved to apartment 1/11/13 W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13 Peicing: 6/3/13 Reconciled: 7/2013 BD2: 4/20/16 still working on it
I consider my W had an EA while physically separated. The OM then made a pass at her and she broke it off. I believe she had another one while separated under same roof.
Mach1. Yes and know I see your frustrations.
JP. You need to stop immediately focusing on your W. Please do this for yourself. I understand you are in panic mode. The more you panic the more you push her further away.
You gave up the passwords. That is GREAT. You can't control if she is having another EA.
What I use to do when I couldn't sleep was get up at 545 am and goto the gym and workout for 2 hours so at night I was so dead tired I could sleep. I also did CHI GONG breathing every night. See if you can find a local Raike or Chi Gong specialist in your area.
You must GAL every night. Do not worry if your W is cheating or not. She is going to do what she is going to do.
Are you still under the same roof? IF so I would come home and do father duties and then split after.
You are on what we call the "net hamster" wheel. I made this a DB forum phrase. You are only skimming posts and missing valuable information. You are so CODEPENDANT on your W right now you are making yourself ill
Yes M1. I am trying to save JP pain. In my sitch I was so hyper focused on rings being on, OM, Lawyers, if she cooked for me, you name it.
You have 2 choices:
1. File and Get a D 2. Not file, work on yourself, and reinvent your M down the road. WHICH requires YOU to start working on yourself ASAP, look inward, do some serious self growth (fix your anxiety/fear and panic which I am guessing stems from childhood). Don't post on your thread what your W is doing. Post what you are doing to fix your sandbox.
Re-read how you are worried about how worried you are about her having EA and how you can't monitor it so it drives you crazy. That is not health bro. I did it too. I actually still have urges. Like trying to quit Marlboro Reds but all your friends smoke. I get it
Forgive me if someone already gave you this list. Print it out. This is what I did. I kept it in my wallet. In my office. Everywhere:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
CPTDAD...I see your signature includes RetroV (maybe)... in the same boat and hoping y'all make it as we're scheduled this weekend as well, but I still think it's a coin flip if she's going to go through with it. We started MC two weeks ago and there's been a lot of soul searching already.... We're in the 4th week of separation and I'm truly happy with how much my eyes have been opened to my contribution into our mess and excited about working on me for me.... Still hit the pity party all the time, but less frequently.... Two beautiful kids that keep me going everyday.....
Before I found this website, I gave my W the same ultimatum. To my shock, she chose OM. I had to backtrack because I wasn't really willing to go there.
First off well done with interaction with W. Act as if you're fine with everything and try to show a PMA whenever she's around. Well try to HAVE one all the time but babysteps... Yes it's extremely hard, yes it's acting and may not feel right, but do it. You might be surprised at the results.
Also someone once told me if you're DBing right everything feels wrong. It's very true.
Looks like today was a good first step. Keep it up! The next big step we need you to take is the first one towards working on you and your attitude about yourself.
Originally Posted By: jp787
Spartan how did you learn to give up the need to try to control, to know everything?
My issue is more about controlling situations, not necessarily my W. These two sometimes blended and that's what I own. Don't get me wrong, if you ask my W she'll tell you I tried to control her. I see some of her points and understand how she would think I was controlling and I've corrected those faults of mine. Many of the things she used to say are more about her perception of situations due to her upbringing and not reality so I don't let it worry me anymore. It used to drive me crazy because I couldn't fix it but I no longer try to own her stuff; funny that an IC told me this years and years ago and I wasn't in a place where I could learn or understand it. W and I have even discussed it before and she's agreed that a lot is/was in her head.
Side note - this is one of the reasons I ask people if they understand their S's complaint and if they agree. Many of the things our S's say about us is there own crap being projected on us, the LBS. It happens all the time, someone will come here and spend time doing 180's on stuff they don't believe in just because their S wanted a change. Those 180's never stick so you have to own your crap and fix it but also understand what isn't yours to fix. I spent years trying to figure something out that probably isn't mine to fix.
Ok back to your question regarding the need to know... Yes, I admit to snooping in past and especially after BD because I went through a phase of asking why, who, what, etc... I felt like I needed answers. Guess what, I found out I didn't like the answers I was getting. Just as bad was I felt like crap in the ways I was finding the answers. I hated who I had become and there wasn't a dang thing I could do with the info anyway to help my sitch. It drove me crazy and it paralyzed me for longer than I like to admit. My W didn't give a crap that I knew and even said as much one time. So one day, after getting to the darkest place a person can get to (yes, I was VERY close) I said enough is enough. I decided it was time to man up. I stopped feeling like a victim, stopped feeling sorry for myself, stopped thinking I wasn't good enough, stopped the 'bad' thoughts that kept trying to get in my head, stopped taking all the responsibility for the failures of our M, and stopped asking her any questions, and I mean any. I'll listen and validate her when she talks but it's very rare I ask any non kid question. I realized the need for this info and the fear that it generated in me was controlling me. It was time for me to look in the mirror, fix my shidt, let my W go fix hers or move on, and start enjoying life again. Ya know what, it's working. I still have the occasional bad day but overall I'm in a much better spot than I've probably ever been. I look in the mirror and really like who's looking back at me (been a LONG time since I could say that). Basically I took back control of my life and took control of things that I can control (my changes, my decisions, and my actions).
So, when I tell you I know how you're feeling and I give you advice it's because I was in your shoes not too long ago. I don't like seeing anyone there and I know you can get out. You just have to "man up" and do it.
Doing the opposite of what I feel is very difficult. I do feel paralyzed, like I can't move. I know what I need to do,I just need to do it. Thank you for sharing your story and struggles, I do read and appreciate it.
M46,W41 D16,D18 M22,T25 BD 11/12 W moved out 01/13 Piecing 10/13 Divorced 01/15 "Whether you worry or not has no affect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can." UrWorthy
Think i will tell w since she wont give up OM we need to D.
That's your decision but I would recommend you think about this a little bit.
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Is there any benefit to making that statement now?
None at all, just would make me regret it.
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Do you think it will help eliminate the pain?
No, it would add to it
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Will it put you in control of the situation?
No
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Is this an ultimatum you're ready for?
Not at all. I think at times I set myself up to fail, I know I cause more pain for myself by my reacting.
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Remember what I've told you before about reacting to emotion?
Yes
Act instead of react.
Originally Posted By: jp787
I didn't sleep at all.
Not unheard of when dealing with this kind of stuff. I didn't sleep from BD day (a Friday) until that Monday afternoon (literally). I was a complete and utter mess. That weekend I was at a men's retreat and I'll never forget it. So awkward when gathered with almost 500 guys and one of the men's leaders is sitting in corner or against a tree crying most of the weekend... I was just telling one of the guys on here that I broke down in the middle of the championship paintball match, just bawling inside my mask (even took a paint ball to the neck and it didn't get me out of it). Trust me, the emotions you're feeling are perfectly normal and you can, and will, get past them.
I fall apart all the time, brought to tears out of the blue. I NEVER showed emotion, now it floods out and I can't control it anymore.
Originally Posted By: Spartan
The other thing I remember from that weekend and from my time on these boards is how amazing it is that total strangers will support you and lift you up when you're willing to let them. That weekend I wasn't, heck I wasn't ready for a good 4-6 weeks after BD, but when I decided it was time my healing has accelerated exponentially.
Originally Posted By: jp787
Tried breathing
Breathing is a good thing .
Originally Posted By: jp787
Will not go to work
Why? Does sitting at home accomplish anything? Seems like it's the opposite of what you should be doing (unless you're doing something fun today which then go for it).
My job most days is sitting at my desk doing absolutely nothing. I left a face paced job and regret it daily. Not ready to change jobs during this mess. At home I can sleep and escape ( I know not healthy). At work I sit and dwell on it. government job, I have tried to find other things to keep me busy. Can't read at work, not that it would help as I cant get through any of my self help books, my mind just wanders.
M46,W41 D16,D18 M22,T25 BD 11/12 W moved out 01/13 Piecing 10/13 Divorced 01/15 "Whether you worry or not has no affect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can." UrWorthy
but I go. I do things I enjoy, try to snap my brain out if the obsessive thinking. This is NOT about us being less than. Nothing anyone does is a reason for someone to cheat. It does not define my self worth, it defines my H's. All I can do is work on being a better person for me, for my kuds.
.