Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Life, continued (22+ months)

Acc, it does help. What you said appeared an unconstructive insult because it was so vague and subjective; since I didn't understand what you were talking about I could not envision or possibly do anything about what you suggested I was doing.

Your explanation takes it out of vague insult territory and into the realm of constructive criticism, so I appreciate that. However I'll have to explore more to find an example because I'm pretty sure it was a lot more subtle than "so there" - I don't believe I've said that or would.

But in the abstract... When I think someone has said something to me that's both wrong and hurtfully expressed, I can believe I respond strongly.

Cat's not a good example because I don't recall being actually mad at her. There was a series of times where she said I had not changed, and I knew that I had changed because I would proceed to tell her how, but I also knew that there was some other kind of change she was really looking for, which I didn't really understand. That was pretty frustrating. But I feel like her challenges and my justifications provided an opportunity to look harder at what I was doing. I'm not sure my justifications were offensive to her; I think if she wasn't trying to help me get somewhere she wouldn't have bothered coming to my thread.

Crazyville yes, I've been mad at. She's a very smart and funny person and I know I'd like her a lot in real life, but the way she used to speak of her H could almost be channeling my H speaking of me. It's excruciatingly hurtful at times. When she came over to criticize me on the day we were telling our kids we were breaking up their family, I was very upset. I don't even think I said I told you so, nor cited any facts as is my usual argumentative style. I think I just told her that was pretty crummy. And she apologized. I'm actually not sorry that I didn't accept that on that day.

But we do get a little closer to what the issue is that I'm working on with my sister. It's like this: if I don't like what you said, I feel mad that you said it in the first place. It's a control thing. I don't do it to everyone. It's like only certain people get so close inside your personal boundary that they can hurt you and you want to be able to control their ability to do that by making sure they have all the information they need to arrive at only the right conclusions in the first place.

When I first walked into IC with my H the very first thing we discussed was the difficulty of understanding and accepting different realities, and the necessity of learning how to navigate between those realities without hurting each other. I got a fair amount of practice at that with H while he lived here. I learned to try to understand the interpretations he was placing on certain facts that caused him to have certain emotions, while my interpretations of the same facts led to different emotions. I learned to recognize the boundary of my own reality, so that his words and nonverbal messages could come up to me and be evaluated before I would react, so I could respond with my own sense of identity/beliefs/thoughts and not simply react at gut level.

I think this thing with my sister is similar. I find myself wanting to control what comes out of her mouth, and so being angry that it did, rather than being able to let her have her own reality that's different from mine. Again, I think you have to be very very close to someone to have that kind of a problem. You're so close that you fail to understand how different you perceive things, and that that is OK.

I also notice when I'm not taking good care of myself, my fuse is shorter, so that's in play too.

Anyway, hope I haven't bored everyone to death.

Feeling proud of myself; our furnace broke and ifigured out how to get it fixed.

H emld me about sharing dependent medical expenses. I told him i think we need to get a written agreement in place as the expenses are getting more complicated, and i will get moving on that.

I also told him we still need to schedule time for a conversation about the kids and reminded him that two weeks have passed since the one he cancelled.

He changed the spring break plan from atv to a mountain bike activity. Thru me S15 said he didnt want to do mountain biking but wd like to do a campout. Last night H decided on Busch Gardens and bought tix. He called me at 10:30 to make sure he had all our birthdates right and to tell me that he thought hed buy my ticket even if i wasnt going to go on this trip. I agreed bc of course i will be going this season. Seemed like h was trying to make a decision without forcing the issue of whether i go or not. So i need to decide and feel like i should go bc 1) it wd smooth things with S15 if were all going and 2) i wd have fun.

But i dont know. It wasnt clear if h has an opinion, it was late and i was feeling nauseated from being sick so it was a very brief call.

I think if I go with the family to Busch Gardens I will get my own room. I've seen many other people on here do family trips and share a bedroom. I could see myself doing it, and I share a bed with S12 and H with S15 or, actually a lot more likely, S15 would get his own rollaway.

I read that it is very confusing for kids whose parents are divorcing to see them acting like this, they get their hopes up that maybe their parents will stay together. I think I read that in The Unintended Legacy of Divorce. Even if I hadn't read that, I would think that the acting my H and I have done was hard for the kids. We acted like we got along for 18 months in which we were not actually working on the marriage at all, so H's all-nighters and the huge amount of quality time he was spending with his friend and other people than his family were very confusing. And then telling them he was moving out came out of left field and took the ground from beneath their feet.

In my opinion, in my situation, it is time for us to act like divorced people. I think it would not be appropriate for me to share a hotel room with H. I think it would be very nice to meet for a day at the amusement park all four of us.

I wonder if those of you who know my specific situation would let me know if you think this makes sense.

I have very close friends who we have always stayed with when we were in that town, so it's a first for any of us to stay in a hotel room at all. If my friends knew we were coming they would invite us to stay there, and if necessary I'm pretty sure they would even be polite and friendly to H and say of course he's welcome too. I'm pretty sure trying to get two rooms instead of the one we usually stay in there would be imposing. I think H made the right choice not even bringing them up and going ahead to get a hotel room.

Although we have known this couple since S15 was born, and we've camped and socialized and stayed with them, I feel very much that they're my friends and not so much H's. When I needed an escape after BD and a place to go to recover, sleep late, and talk over wine or coffee, it was with these friends. It would be very weird for me to be in town and not see or stay with them.

All this turmoil in my head is to figure out what I want. I like the amusement park, I love going places with my kids, I think a fun day out with H would be healthy for us, and of course at the back of my mind I also think my being there makes it easier for S15 to go somewhere "with" H.

H has not been really clear about what he wants. He called me late at night and with me sick on top of it, I only remember him saying he was buying me a park ticket and if I didn't go with us I'd probably use it anyway, and I agreed that was true. After that, he sent the three of us an email:
We have hotel in Williamsburg Wed and Thursday night. We should arrive early Wed. Our passes are good through Sept 2 so we can use them all summer.

So I don't actually know if I'm invited but it kind of sounds like it because he didn't specifically say it was him and the kids. I don't know where he thinks I'll be sleeping. I don't know how involved in this trip he wants me to be. I feel silly inviting myself along and getting in the middle of it if he was thinking he'd take the boys away for a trip. I feel absolutely sure if I ask him any of these questions he'll say "whatever you want is fine, if you want to go or stay home that's fine, if you want to stay in our room or not that's fine." If I ask him what he WANTS he'll say, "I don't care it doesn't matter." He leaves these things to me.

So I thought I'd think out what is best to me, what is best for me, and for the kids, before he tells me to do whatever it is that I prefer.

//I wonder if those of you who know my specific situation would let me know if you think this makes sense.//

No, none of this makes sense to me. Your husband waking up, realizing he has a family and stopping this nonsense is what makes sense. Outside of that, it is all a little rediculous. With what you can control, however, I think a little distance and privacy would be good. A seperate room would give you that.

//I feel silly inviting myself along and getting in the middle of it//

I don't think this is silly. This is your family and you are still married. Of course you want to be a part of the vacation. He is a big boy, if he doesn't want you there, he can say so.

Rock, sometimes I think the only time he's been a big boy in the last 24 years was the night he told me he was miserable and didn't want to be married to me anymore.

Separate room for sure Ad, no question. I think your instincts about the kids are right on. I also think you can't lose if you go or don't go -- either is fine, and you should feel free to stay with your friends while H stays in a hotel and not feel at all awkward about that. You are separated and this is what separated people do right?

Just catching up here. I'd say a separate room is a good idea.

The stuff with your sister is tough. I have a similar deal with my mom. Working on that in IC & reading facing Codependence by Pia mellody.

Hope you are feeling better!

I'd stay with the friends.

It's so much easier to be strong in other people's threads.

H came over to work on our taxes on our computer and I was there part of the time. (As I was headed out on an errand I asked him if he'd like me to bring him any tax-doing snacks or drinks; I think that was nice of me. He declined though.) But as he got ready to go I asked him "So, what's the plan for W'burg this week?"

He said "Well, we'll drive down early Weds and come home Friday. I got us a hotel room about a mile from the park entrance, and I got the tickets we can use until September. It was a package deal and breakfast is included." I said "Great! that sounds really good." He said "Oh yeah I never did mention to our friends that we'd be there, we probably should see if they're around." I said "yeah, I'll let them know we're coming."

I was getting uncomfortable with my decision and having trouble spitting it out. Then I said, "Um, so how many rooms did you book?" He said one. I said "Well, I think probably we should have two rooms don't you? Well, don't worry about it I'll see what I can do. Maybe I'll stay with our friends. I do think it's great that you'll be so close to the park since that always adds so much time for driving there and parking."

What's hard for me is that it would be so normal for us all to share a room. It is so normal for us to be frugal and not pay for two rooms when we could have one. It is so normal for us to put down any silly needs for the greater good. It is so fun to be all in one room, watching tv together, getting room service together, enjoying the kids (or not) together. And the feelings this brings up are the feelings of the old days, the marriage and family I LIKED, I was FINE with, I still WANT. And that, I believe, is gone. So it creates this little glimmer that things really are just like they were and this divorce really is unreal.

Half of me says that's silly and just go with the flow, don't be a party pooper and insist that we are SEPARATED and should act like it, then I'm the meany changing things that could be just fine and fun. But I'm not, he's the one wanting to end our marriage, he's the one not living with us. I'm just trying to live out the reality that he put in place.

But me getting my own place will bring up questions the kids will ask, why are you in a different room, why can't we be in your room, can we be in your room? Why do you get to stay with our friends and not us? And it will be a weird different kind of vacation where I meet them places instead of be right in the middle of it.

I guess the relevant thing is, if even just thinking about all this is painful and confusing for me, and sets up expectations that maybe we'll really be ok and drop this divorce thing, is it doing this in the kids' heads too?

The kids love our friends. They have a really cute little boy and a nice dog and cat, and it's great to stay in their house with them. I will expect that if I stay there I'll definitely be asked by the kids why they can't too. And I will not make my h's plan for a family vacation into H staying all alone in a hotel while the rest of us hang out with our friends. The kids must stay at the hotel with H and get their free breakfast and be close to the park, that's non negotiable.

I felt sick to my stomach trying to get to sleep after even suggesting to H that I should get a second room. This in-between not married not yet divorced haven't even started negotiating the separation agreement but knowing it's coming stage is VERY HARD on me emotionally. I feel like a raw nerve ending.