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I've recorded the snoring. He knows. It hasn't made a real impact though.

Breakdown, you are right that I need to be cognizant of and focused on the way I say things. It's a universal issue for me, not just with H. With the kids too. I k ow I need to work on it.

SS, why were the 3 guys worth a mention? Because I need to know I still "got it", even if I just smile and walk away. It's important for my ego. I don't get that kind of reinforcement from H.

Had a session with my IC this am and he helped me figure out that all ofmy complaints about H boil down to a lack of engagement. He's engaged with the kids, with work, but not with me or in tune with any sort of logistics. This leaves me feeling very vulnerable and alone. That's the crux of it, right there. Something to bring up in our next MC tomorrow.

I no longer get this reinforement from my H and when I've asked, he tells me that I should know this is how he feels. So now that I've lost a good bit of weight and stocked my closet with mini skirts, I no longer care whether or not H makes comments. I know in my own mind that I still "got it", and if we split, it is H's losss and he will never get the complete package that I have to offer from anyone else. Can you try to think of yourself like that and not seek the reinforcement from H? I think that will help with your resentment.

I'm by no means perfect in this area. I see that you are seeking a lot of outside validation of yourself for your own happiness and self-reassurance. You know you don't get that from H and have not for some time. Are you setting yourself up for failure going forward? Is this a character/personality defect of H? And will it ever change?

Do I get mad when H gives other women compliments? Yes, but I try not to let it bother me any more like it used to. H recently said something about 2 women being hot or something to that effect. They are airshow performers, so I looked at their website. They are dried up. I had to laugh to myself and ask what the h3ll he saw that was hot. Maybe the exhaust pipe on their vehicle?

Let us know if you were able to talk about this in MC and what happened. Do you see MC helping your M at all at this point?

Amen At least you're in piecing, so you're getting at least that much interest from your H although I will say he's a fool if he thinks he doesn't need to tell you because you should just "know". Has he read 5LL? He needs to practice it.

It still amazes me that the woman who told me how sexy and good-looking I was for 25 years now can barely force herself to tell me she likes my new shirt, LOL! Strange how they can just flip a switch like that. After BD I felt utterly ugly, old, uninteresting and unattractive. I was downright surprised when women found out I was separated and started showing interest. Women who were younger. A LOT younger in some cases. It was a revelation to find out that women DO find me attractive. I really bought into my W's concept of me being unappealing and not worth any effort, but once I found out that it was specifically her view and not shared by any other woman around me I realized that this really is all about her. And I think your comment about the 3 guys is just your way of pointing out the same about yourself- you're good-looking, desirable and attractive and you deserve to be reminded of that whether by H or others

Sigh. Obviously other men find me attractive. I have proof of it - 3 times over at least. But like you, Another Stander, I started to "buy in" to my H's concept of me being unappealing. It's part of my own self image of myself and got reinforced by my H's rejection. I think now that I am more aware of this tendency - to seek validation - that I can avoid falling into the same sorts of traps that I have in the past. I don't know that it's a deficiency on H's part. I think he's withholding because he isn't "feeling it."

I'm not sure if we've hit a snag or what. Things were going ok and then after the ski trip things went downhill (no pun intended). I brought that up in MC. What came back was that my H is still hurting a lot about my infidelity and it can't just be wiped away. That I needed to acknowledge it more, factor it in. Probably true. Unfortunately though, the effect on me is that I'm "held hostage" a bit. Yes, it's of my own doing, but the result is that I don't have a lot of grounds for complaint. I think I've mentioned this before, but I have a little joke with my stepmother is that now my H can respond to just about any request with "No, because you cheated on me." So be it. I will probably schedule another call with my coach to work through some of that stuff.

I still struggle a lot with those little things about H that bother me. He made dinner tonight and went to the market while I took the boys to the movies. This is great, really. But I focus on the fact that he went to the overpriced market (which is a lot farther away), because he "knows it"; he made something that was good but not particularly healthy; there was no vegetable. I didn't mention any of this to him but it all still bothers me.

I'm now wearing noise-reducing headphones in addition to earplugs to combat the snoring. I handed him a few overdue bills today (pre-collection notices over a $15 bill). He hasn't had his car serviced in months, nor gone to the dentist, the doctor. He has high blood pressure and hasn't addressed it. He is self-medicating with food. In other words, I don't see him taking a lot of responsibility for himself. He takes responsibility for other things, like the boys, but isn't great at taking care of himself.

By the way, Hopeful, I do think MC is helping. We have a good MC. We both like him. He speaks our language and shoots straight. H thought I didn't like the other (awful) MC because I didn't like what he had to say, but our new guy puts us both in our places. It's very helpful.

LA, i used to fret about my H's health, too. but i came to realize that his health is his business. he's overweight and takes BP medication. he's borderline diabetic. his triglyceride levels are too high.

why is that my concern? because i want him to live longer and not be in the hospital. but, is it mine to control? no. is it his? yes. does it impact me? not that much. he may kill himself but it's his body, his life, and his business. i can't control it and i no longer want to.

as far as you H's shopping and cooking, if my H does grocery shopping, i'm grateful. if he cooks, i'm grateful. does he do it like i do? no. does it matter that much? no. i'm grateful for whatever he does for me and our home.

focus on the positives.

Have you guys talked about forgiveness? How H thinks he'll get there? What it'll look like? Does it understand it can't have conditions attached to it? Does he understand and accept responsibility for his role in the EAs?

On one hand, I do feel like you are in a position to talk about it and perhaps help H work thru these feelings. On the other, if he's withholding forgiveness to be in control or to further punish you, that's BS.



To me, this is normal stuff. You just have to accept it and be thankful for the positives.

It would be easy for me to make a long list of small things that irritate the hell out of me about my W, but I came to realize that a lot of those things are things I really love about her too. On others, if it bugs me enough, I simply take the lead on them.

Hi RLA,

I'd be grateful if my H cooked something at all and extremely appreciative if it was good to boot. In my books, that's huge. I agree with SS's views on her H's health but like you it really annoys that my H doesn't take care of his health. I'm not sure how one gets rid of those feelings of annoyance.

As the H's snoring, I find that most of the time, the earplugs I use are pretty good. Have you tried lots of different types? Mine aren't foam, they're the consistency of wax and can be moulded. I can make them any size I want and if I really get the size right and push them in properly they work well.

I'm with you with the complaint about your H's 'lack of engagement' when it comes to you. I do think though that your H's comment about not taking for granted that all of you were together for the ski trip is very significant. When my H is in pain, he becomes even more self-centred and unhelpful. Your H may be the same. I like the advice about how to ask for help in a different way. I could use it too.

Hang in there, RLA. It does sound like progress overall.

Well, first I'll address comments from the past few days and then get to today's MC session:

Health - well, true, it's his problem, not mine, BUT, and this is different from you SS, I have 2 little kids who need a father. He owes it to THEM to stay healthy. Like I said, he self medicates and I think he also punishes himself a bit when he overeats or makes bad choices. It's like a way to disrespect himself because deep down he doesn't believe he's worth more than that.

Snoring - Wendy, I do use the clay type earplugs. They work pretty well but it's the vibrations that bother me more. It's not a perfect solution but better than nothing. Still, I don't like waking up in a bad mood or starting the day angry with H because of his snoring, but it's up to him to do something about it. I'm not sure why he doesn't seem to understand that. I've told him that his snoring puts me in a bad mood, and I don't think anyone should have to suck it up when their partner snores. It is just not fair.



Breakdown, this is a very tough one. On the one hand, H states that he is having a hard time getting past the infidelity. On the other hand, he has made no effort (at least no effort that includes me) to actually get past it. So we don't discuss it, we don't talk about it. I had suggested reading After the Affair together but he didn't want to do that. I have suggested Retrouvaille but he doesn't want to do that either. I have suggested many things that he doesn't want to do. I'm not sure what he does want to do, except that I do know that he seems to be very stuck and has been for a long time.

So far, there has not been a lot of ownership for his role in the EA's. Actually no ownership. It gives me little hope that we will ever resolve our situation. So let me give the update on MC which kind of answers the rest of it.

Things seem to go ok during the week but when we get to MC all hell breaks loose. I am a "tough cookie" as my MC puts it and I put it all out on the table, for better or for worse. H and I had a dust up yesterday am which started off the conversation. To sum it up - he had an early am call and when I woke up I said that it was almost 6:30 and he needed to get up. I had no idea how awake he was, just that he was still in bed at 6:25. He angrily snapped at me. "What's your point??"

Half an hour later, I brought it up, told him he snapped, he looked me straight in the face, blankly, denied it, then walked out of the room. Morning goes on. Needed H's help with the boys. I started to get tense as the morning went on and started yelling. H didn't help as needed (failed to get S6's soccer gear etc despite my asking). I end up having to do it. Last thing before I leave I ask for an apology. He says, "F you, you're a screaming maniac" and turns his back.

So, a few comments on this - first of all, this is exactly the kind of dismissive, disrespectful interaction that set us up perfectly for me to be vulnerable (my IC said it was abusive). It has been going on like this for years. Secondly, yes I did yell. I own it and have been trying to resolve the problem of getting out of the house more peacefully for a few months now. H still doesn't understand how he needs to help and I rely on him. Not sure why H takes it so personally. It's not meant personally, but everyone has to pull their weight in getting out of the house. H does not go to an office and hasn't in years so he has no idea what that is like. He did call to apologize later btw.

To make a long story short, H thinks that I do not "own" my stuff. So even though yesterday I acknowledged that I would try to do a better job of not yelling in the am, somehow the fact that I didn't own it in front of the therapist made it null and void. MC said that H needed to give me the benefit of the doubt, just a little bit because he's not doing it at all. MC also said to H that he doubted he was really "in it" - as in, H says that he believes in marriage and wants to keep the family together but isn't actually doing anything towards fixing things or trying actively to forgive. MC asked H what H liked about me. H said he couldn't really think of anything except that I work hard. Then later when I got going he said he liked my strength. I guess that is something but in the end it is probably not enough for me. He likes the strength but resists it wholeheartedly.

One thing that H does a lot which really bothers me is he brings things up from years ago to illustrate my behavior. He tried this again today. I got so frustrated that I had to say very clearly that I've been working on my issues for the better part of a year and that I didn't think H was giving me any "credit" (benefit of the doubt as MC had said earlier in the session). For example, when H broke his rib I did my best to be very understanding and cool about it, which I think I was. But that's not seeming to matter to him. I don't see how we can make any headway if he's not willing to change his perception or see things as they are NOW.

On my end, MC told me that I needed to work on "owning" my stuff. I know I can be very defensive. I do it here on this board, it's part of my nature. Part of the problem is that I often times don't understand what H wants or I feel that he wants so much mea culpa that I can't possibly ever prostrate myself enough. It seems that it's never enough for him for me to just apologize and say I'll work on it. Also, I made the mistake of saying that when H says stuff like "F you" it's exactly the same as me being unfaithful to him. Obviously it is not, and I know that, and I shouldn't have said that, but it does hurt a lot and feels very disrespectful and I don't think that H understands the impact. H's takeaway was that I don't own the infidelity.

So, kind of a depressing start to the day.

Yes, you are defensive. How do you think that might effect your piecing and your M?

H says that it's always "my way or the highway". I don't like to be wrong, that is for sure. This is one of the reasons I put that line about being right in my signature. It's a big thing for me and I have to remind myself that it's not always about being right.

We have gotten to a place in our M where I feel like if I am not defensive I'll get walked all over. I was told here for months to "get a backbone" so I tried to do that.

I guess I feel like if I'm not defensive or defending my position, then no one will. It feels like no one has my best interests at heart sometimes, at least not in the moment. Certainly H does not and many times I feel like he will take advantage if I do not defend. Maybe I ought to practice just saying "Yes, you're right" and then shutting up. One of the reasons I like my MC so much is that he is good at putting things in perspective and explaining stuff without making me feel defensive. It allows me to just listen to him and to hear what he is saying without any of the static.