Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Here we go loopty loo. Here we go loopty li.

You're having a hard time with it? Just imagine living with it in your head all the time

Know what I heard in all of that? His struggle. And yours. He hasn't hit rock bottom yet though. Hence the continued struggle. He seems to think, much like an addict, he can stop any time and make everything right. There's a lot of similarities there. As my exBIL once said to me (he's an addict and spent a lot of time watching people while in jail)"People have to hit bottom before they'll change" He's right in some ways. I think it fits with your H.

Time is not an element your H has a handle on. His perception of time is warped. But he is working through some pieces of the issue. Be patient. If he stops now, he won't finish the trip and will retreat to some dark corner for a very long time.

I'm impressed by you. Your ability to listen and have compassion is very rare. And your strength (even if you don't feel like it )

Peace,
AJ

I think I've reached the point I need to have a boundary talk with H. He is opening up to me more and more. We had an interesting talk about his grandfather who was an alcoholic, serial cheater, and his grandmother took back time and time again. This turned into a convo about being used. I said for his grandmother to continue to take him back, made her weak. I talked to him about some thoughts I had on that, because H also mentioned he feels his life would be easier if people didn't let him away with everything, like his grandfather. I talked to him about people using each other and that one person may be in the position of strength and the other weak, but they are both using each other. More on this later, as it turned into a convo about addiction too. AJ, i agree and have felt he is going through an addiction to this lifestyle with OW. It doesn't make him happy, but he can't stop it. It was really good to have this convo where it wasn't seen as an attack on him but got some ideas out in the open.

He is playing with fire and that must be all the more exciting for him. He goes from OW#1 one night to OW#4 the next and making plans with OW#3. All of this he thinks is completely secret from me.

So he has that going on, but he is sending me a lot of signals. He says he misses me, being with the person that could understand him and who he could read so completely. He mentioned that he almost kissed me (again) but didn't want to offend me. I told him later we need to talk about that.

I feel like I need to tell him I can't kiss him if he has anything going on with other women, physically or even just flirtatiously. That I can't be involved with him that way if he has any kind of contact or communication with anyone he has had flirtations with or beyond. Tell him that I appreciate he hasn't done that to me and that I just want to make sure that is out there in the open and I just have to trust that he cares about me enough not to do that to me.

I also want to sent another boundary that he does have any kind of communication with other women while he is here at the house or with the boys. Not that I think he is, but just so he knows that. I want him to know this is mine and the boys safe haven.

It's been my experience that boundary "talks" are not very productive, but rather setting the boundary and enforcing it is. Be careful that the boundary is a "no-kidding" kind of boundary and it is only for YOU. You will be tested and it is important that you set it and realize the implications of having to enforce it. Choose carefully and choose your boundaries for you is my suggestion.

I wonder if he is acting out his Grandfather's behavior and trying on that "persona"? Maybe as a way of reconciling what he saw? It doesn't sound like that is his life so much as somebody else's? I wonder if it's an addiction as much as it is a need to figure these things out so he can internalize and reconcile them. One of his issues perhaps?

I don't think setting a boundary ahead of time will be as effective for you as would dealing with an issue when it occurs. A list of rules to live by may get lost, ya know?

I think you handled it last time very well. It came up. You gave it some thought and you dealt with it. I think that works well.

My $0.04 worth anyway.

Peace,
AJ

Maybe a better way to say it is I should explain to him why I'm not letting him kiss me. He is interpreting it as I am offended by him or annoyed by him. He knows the boundary is there, because I'm not letting him, but doesn't seem to be correctly interpreting why I'm feeling this way. He is interpreting it is like when we were together and I would get annoyed by him being overly affectionate when I was trying to get something done.

The other part is something I can't really enforce or know its happening, but something I want him to know.

Do you think he doesn't know? What would be different in his actions if he did know your boundary? I don't think it hurts to state a boundary you will enforce. But in my experience an MLCr doesn't understand the meaning behind words or for that matter, anything a normal person would understand. Kind of like a two-year old.

So I'm curious what telling him does? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for clear communication in a normal relationship. And if it makes you feel better to say it to him, I don't see a problem with firmly setting and enforcing boundaries. I'm just trying to understand your expectations of the transaction.

Make sense?

Peace,
AJ

Yup I get what your saying. I do agree and feel now I'm thinking of this too far into normal and relationship setting. You help me step back and remember what this is. would a normal person would be doing what he is doing right now? It's so absurd. He is playing with all of these other people's emotions like they're pawns in some game, but trying to justify it as "hey we are all friends here. We are just helping each other out." I don't want to be a part of it. But I am.

I know I have power over him right now. I know if I say jump he would. Multiple times this week he has asked me to let him know what i need from him. I don't want to use that and I feel myself getting pulled that way. ^^ case in point. I don't think he really texts them when he is here, so why try to make a big case for it? I know I'm just gearing up for me being in the hospital and him being here with the boys and not wanting to get hurt by some action he may or may not take. But I'm already hurt. Ill leave that alone.

AJ thanks for helping me work through that. The next time something comes up about him wanting to push my limits, I'll address it then.

I'm in an interesting position right now of carrying so many splintered personalities, where each must play her part. The one who is aware my H is a complete jerk right now and I should have nothing to do with him. The one who is the lighthouse to get H through this, with the sole purpose being of him getting through this, not us getting back together. And yes, there is still that person who loves him beyond measure.

It's clear he has strong feelings towards me, and those feelings are growing, or becoming unburied. He wants to be so close to me, literally, taking opportunities to get close and whisper in my ear. He talks about things he misses about me, things that I would assume he is not finding with anyone else or feels he possibly could, all along the lines of what the expert posters have posted here: The LBS is the prize, and eventually the MLCer will realize that.

Right now he will tell me things, but I'll let them stew for a bit, and then I'll bring it up later, such as, "Thanks for sharing that with me. I've been thinking about it, and it's made me realize some things. I want to talk to you about it sometime." Then it will come up again and I can. I've been able to then take something he has said, and discuss it with him, outside of it being about him, which seems to work really well.

AJ you've made a really interesting point about him trying on different personas. He may have fallen for OW#1, and been hurt by that, or not have that relationship measure up to all he thought it would be. So when something happened there (and not sure what, since he is still connected to her too) he started taking on more and more. He bounces between the two extremes of hating himself, thinking he is worthless, and thinking he is so amazing he can get anything he wants. This cycle of using women to make himself feel better about himself, then feeling guilty for doing it (or not getting lasting satisfaction from it) to back to using them again to feel better.

We had a really good discussion where I feel like some ground was made for him to muse over when he is figuring himself out. I talked to him about his grandfather and some points to consider, and also his feelings that his life would be easier if he couldn't get whatever he wanted from other people--if everyone didn't like him so much and let him off with everything. I told him just because he can, doesn't mean he should. That he has the upper hand with a lot of people, but using his strength to take advantage of the weak, only makes him weak. But knowing he can, and making the choice not to, gives him strength of character and that frees him from guilt and regret. It doesn't matter if other people like him, if he doesn't like himself. He seemed to take this to heart and really agree with it.

I also said to him that people who use other people are only operating under the facade of strength, because strong people don't use weak people to boost themselves up. I said it's a co-dependent relationship, where both are using each other, but neither is really getting what they want out of it, and therefore it will fail.

So I said take this into consideration with your grandfather. What caliber of people was he really able to use? What kind of person was he because of it? Was he really liked and respected? He mentioned about his grandmother always taking his grandfather back, time and time again. I said this was a weakness of hers.

This is where it seemed to really hit him when I said this: Sometimes people do the same acts over and over again, expecting a different outcome. Or they think about those temporary moments of happiness and think, if I can just do this again, but hold onto that moment when I felt on top of the world, then I will be happy. That's addiction. And if a person is addicted to something, they won't stop until they hit rock bottom. No one wants to hit rock bottom, so they're circle the bottom, drag themselves out again, only to drop back down. And they'll continue to do that until they hit the bottom and make a lasting dent.

Wow Raine, this is some good stuff!



EXACTLY what W was doing, except with OMs, and she is realizing that dynamic now. It is heartening that he is starting to listen to your thoughts, and considering them...keep planting those seeds at the right times, and you know your H's "right times".

Oh I so get the personality split feeling..it's tough, be kind to yourself...
T^2

I saw the same thing in your latest post and similarities in your wife too with OM. One of these latest ones threw me for a loop. H spent a night with OW1, the next night with OW4, and then I saw him the next afternoon. He was a complete mess. I was thinking, shouldn't he be feeling like he is Fabio right now? Shouldn't this be the moment he is at the top of the cycle? What ever kind of joy he gets from this, doesn't seem to last beyond the moment. For me, I can understand that. If I were to sleep with someone without love, I think immediately afterwards I would feel shame, guilt, remorse, yuck. But I'm not expecting that from Mr. MLC. Especially when he keeps the cycle going. But what would be do without these little surprises and ah moments in the mix of everything else? Something has to keep us on our toes.

No, it doesn't. But some MLCr's will lie about it, even to themselves. Appearance is very important. Always reminds me of the Rolling Stones talking about how "White my shirts can be" - it's all about what somebody is selling them and they are buying anything that they were told would bring or epitomize happiness. Kind of like the beer commercials? "Men doing manly things - it's Miller time!" As opposed to reality - "it's five AM and you woke up naked in an alley with your car keys in your a**. It's Miller time!" (from a skit from Robin Williams - paraphrased somewhat) The point is the same - reality vs. what others tell me I "need" to be happy. Until a person figures it out, they'll continue to try anything to stop the pain. Anything.

Peace,
AJ