Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Is there light at the end of the tunnel Part 1?

First, thanks for taking the time to read this rather long request for support and help but I could have easly wrote a lot more. Thanks again and sorry for the length!

Me34/W 35
15month S/9 YO D not living with us (mine)
M7/T13
OM suspected in 10/12
ILYBNILWY 1st in 10/12
OM confirmed in 10/12 (but not admitted by W)
ILYBNILWY 2nd in 1/13

I’ve been lurking the forms for a few months now and I know I need to detach. I have been doing 180 and GAL. We are both in IC and MC. I have been sleeping in the living room since 5/11 when she was pregnant. She had a hard time during pregnancy and was depressed. I tried to be there for her and told her it will all be ok but she pushed be back. My hurt feeling of thinking she did not want to have a child with me made me withdraw and do things around the house to prepare for our son. Once our son was born 11/11, I thought it would be some time before we can get a handle of things and start working on our M. After that, she withdrew more and kept doing her own thing. I asked for us to spend time together but I was not in her list of priorities. We start MC in 6/12 had have had 3 (they were councilors that were finished up their schooling so when they did it only lasted a few months each). Now we are seeing a pro who I think is good at breaking down our feelings and where they come from. We both have a tendency to think we known what they other person is thinking or feeling and some communicate about feeling as much as we used to. In our past, I was the one who did not communicate well and kept it all inside, now she is the one doing that.

In 10/12 I suspected a OM (maybe a EM) and had some evidence and confronted her and she said they are just friends. She lied about where she was but she says its not a lie and that she just doesn’t have to tell me everywhere she was. And believe me, I am not the type of person who keep track of where she is but when I am lied to, it feel like she is hiding something. She withdrew more. Said she doesn’t feel comfortable around me anymore and dropped the ILYBNILWY. That day, I told her that I loved her and understand how she feels and if she truly in her heart feels she has given it all her best then I cannot stop her. I also asked if she feels in the last 6 months of seeing MC, does she feel like she has actually tried and she agreed that she didn’t but didn’t know if she can give us a chance since feels she is out of love. She said to give her more space so she can make a decision on even if she wants to try. Same day I called OM’s family and got his number and called him and texted him so we can talk but he did not.

I perused more and she withdrew more. I snooped and found some things that led me to believe of OM PA. She was “hurt” how I would even ask. I did not accuse, I asked if something is going on let me know and we can talk about it and see where we go. She denied it and withdrew some more. For months now I have been the one asking for a hug and it feels a one way and I have stopped asking since it makes me feel so rejected that my W that I love is so hurt by me and have lost the feelings of love to even give me a hug or touch me. It is painful and I don’t wish it on anyone.

During one MC session, I asked if she has taken our son to the OM’s house she says she has and I filled out and told her I don’t like you taking S to the OM’s. You can do what you want but please don’t do that and told her how it made me feel. She said “alright alright I wont”. These days she avoids R talks. I did more snooping and confronted her coming out of the OM’s apartment building. She told me she was taking our S to the store and mall but when I followed her they were no mall stopping. Looking back, this was very stupid of me. I felt confronting her would make her see what she is doing and for her to decide one way or another. But what it does is push her more away from me.

So during MC, when C asked her about her hiding thing and how I does want to be married to a teenager and that she do not need to be married to her father she says she feels boxed in and trapped. She still needs to sort her feelings out. When confronted about the lying she flipped out and said she is not sorry she lied and that she doesn’t feel she owes me anything.

I have been calmer and doing more of my own thing and trying to validate her feelings in MC. We are not to talk about the M outside of MC so it is hard to wait for a week to talk about 13 years of relationship issues but I am doing it. At home I am doing more around the house and spending a lot of time with my son who is so nice to be around now since everything he does is funny. I have also been doing my own thing of reconnecting with old friends and trying to develop new hobbies. W sees some of the changes but I don’t know if it is too late. I know this is more for me than her but I also know I want this M to work. It is hard to be in house where you see all your dreams crumbling down but I don’t want to leave no stone unturned.

A few things I have a question about. I know it is said when there is an OM involved, the fog is hard for them to see. How do I know if this is the fog talking or if she is really done with our M?

Is it still ok for us to go to MC even though W says she hates going there and almost always leaves crying? We don’t bring up the OM in there but of how we feel and have felt and more of me trying to relate to her feelings and validating her. She says she feels judged by me and other, and am trying to tell her that I am not judging her and that I feel bad and sad for her she feels this way. She says even though it is empathy, she hears it as pity. And it is honestly empathy because I can really see how she is torn and is hurt but nothing I can say or do can fix it and I wish I would be able to be there for her but she doesn’t want me to. Is MC still right place to be since that is the only communication about our feelings and the M? The MC is really good at exposing issues that we both don’t generally see ourselves doing but seeing her hurt in there hurts me.

As far as doing my thing, since we live in the same roof, I am kind and offer help but I think I need to do less of that. I take great care of our son and his needs, I do stuff around the house as in the dishes and household stuff and she does as well. We don’t cook for each other and that hasn’t happened in years so what things we have together I don’t want to do 180 and not do it anymore. Other times we spend together has been me asking if I can join or asking if she wants to join doing things with our S. should I continue to do that? I know it doesn’t make her feel good but I feel if I stop doing that, the only time we would see each other would be during MC or in the house for a few minutes a day. She has detached from me for a long time so I am sure she can go without me and wouldn’t miss a beat so how do I work back into her wanting to do something with me?

Any advice if greatly appreciated especially about how to communicate in MC. Since the first time to now, C has said that she feels like I (and H) have to really slowly formulate our words like it is the last chance we have and we are walking on egg shell especially me. And I hate how it has come to that. What do I do about that. I don’t want share all my feelings because I feel she will hold it against me and put another satiric why she should leave. But I don’t want to be back in a relationship of where we were or go to one that is lopsided of me not being able to share my thoughts and feelings. I have learned from IC and MC that these thoughts have to be shared to at least get them out of your system and deal with them or they will fester into a problem in the end. What’s the balance of validating her feelings but expressing yours as well. Or do you wait to see where we go and then express/work on those later?

I have read both DBing books and find it helpful. I have also been reading other books and the forms a lot and trying to read the good outcomes and see where it relates to me and how I can apply that but every R is different. I am still confused if I have WAW or MLC (she has issues of self image and feel she is getting old and have lost her 20s) though.

On my issues, of temper, being lazy, needing to get a life, doing more around the house is changing and improving. I need to keep that going. I need to get my self-confidence back as it has taken a shot over the years and in need of a big repair. I am being less controlling of not asking and wait for her to tell me and not judging her action. I did not see my opinions as being judging but that is how she sees it and feels so I can’t argue with that and can only validate her feelings and try not to come off judging. I know I will be ok at the end of the day and I know at the end of the day I want to be in my M with my H that is a better M than we have hard in the last few years.

Thank you and sorry for jumping all over the place but I need your thoughts on my not so unique situation!

Just spent the evening with W, S, and her family as it was FIL’s birthday. It feels so awful to looking back how things were so much better before. MIL asking me when was the last time I took a vacation and how they can look after S so we can go out. Trying so bad to detach and gain that confidence I was known to have when all these emotions are going through me. I wake up at 5am in the couch feeling like crap hoping I just woke up from a bad dream then realize this is reality. Keep feeling like crap at work and then I boost myself up. Tell myself I need to detach. Read my little goals of all the things I working on and pump myself up. Actually accomplish some of the daily goals like being positive. I continue so well and then boom, back down to feeling like down and sad. It has been like this for a couple of month now and it has gotten easier but still has not stopped.

I have to go visit my family for the weekend as my father is not doing too good and I know they will ask how things are. I don’t know what to tell them. Since my father has been sick, they haven’t been able to seen my S for some time now and I need to take him with me on my next visit. I feel so bad that my folks are not close by like W’s where they see their grandson often but that’s something I need to fix and not feel bad about.

I had dinner with a close friend the other night and he sort of known some of the problems W and I are having. He broke up with his GF of 3 years a few months ago. I told how W wants out and how she is confused and does not know what she wants. I was telling him how I asked her to really thing about it and not just make a decision after a fight. He told me something I did not think of. He said he knows W is the type of person who does not like anyone influencing her decision. He has known her as long as I have so he is right. I did not see it like that at all but now I see it, she is feeling pressured by me feeling I am trying to influence her decision. All this time I am thinking that I am sharing my feelings, all before she use to give me a hard time about not sharing my feeling. Now that I am sharing them, she sees it as me pressuring her? I need to pull back, detach, detach, detach.

Before going to MC and IC, the way I saw things were just black and white. Now after all this emotional quest of experiencing and exploring the good and bad emotions, everything is gray. I mean really, if a year or two ago my W told me she wants out because she is not sure and there was a thought of OM, I would have told her GoodBye and don’t let the door hit you on the way out! But why do I now feel like I have my marbles cut off? Is it because of my S that I am willing to work hard through this feeling of hell day in and day out? I know even before I have issues of holding my feelings and hurt deep in and then they explode. I know I want to be a better father to my kids than my father was to me. He had a lot of good qualities but was very hard on me and did not feel his love even though I know he loves me. Am I doing all this because of the guilt I would feel for my S not growing up in a two parent family? I already feel so much guilt for not having my D with me. I talk to D on the phone regularly and visit but I want to have her with me. I told W that a while back and that was always a subject we didn’t deal with too well. Now as I write this and look back, a lot of our problem are because we don’t talk about them. We both sweep issues under the rug and without knowing it, it changes our attitudes towards each other. I wish I know how to communicate better from early on and know how to deal with hurt and sadness instead of keeping it all in.

Use this other thread linked below

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2326732&#Post2326732

Disregard my post above, looks like more posts were added to this thread that I did not see from moderation.

Maybe this is the thread you should stay on.I will add my post from the other thread here.

Welcome to the board.

First of all try to stick to one thread.
Lets make it this one.

You are on moderation right now so you are going to need some patience until your posts show up.

As far as WAW or MLC you do not do anything differently.
It does not matter what she is, you do the same things.

Take care of your self, GAL, eat, sleep, and breathe.

Keep reading here and posting

Welcome Bel. Sorry you find yourself here, but hang in there.

That was a lot of information so I'm not going to address all of it, but a couple of really big things jumped out at me:

1) Stop pursuing her! Trying to hug her, telling her you love her, asking her to do things, asking where she's been, when she'll be back, etc....that's all pursuing. She is telling you she feels trapped and the more you pressure her, the further you are going to push her away...stop.

2) Stop the snooping. It sounds like you have some issues with control and judgement and snooping just makes it all worse. You find something you don't like, you confront in an attempt to get her to stop, she feels controlled and retreats further from you....it will be an endless loop with her going further and further away until you stop.

So what are you doing with regards to the items you are working on? Self-confidence, judging, controlling...those all ring true for me too...how are you facing them?

What did your W think the issues in the M were?

The timing makes me wonder if there's not some element of postpartum going on...maybe others with experience here can chime in.

Is your IC/MC solution based?

Cadet- Thanks for replying! I will try to post in small amount. I have a tendency to let it all out when things are bothering me but small amount is what I will try for now I will continue to improve my own self and these are things I have wanted to change but never got around to it. This is the kick in the butt I needed. I am making realistic goals of being healthier and more rounded person who is able to do for himself. I am hoping I stick to it and make it a lasting change whether things work out with W or not.

Breakdown- Thanks also for replying. Yeah that is a lot of information sorry about that. It was building up so much I let SOME of it out HAHA. I have stopped telling her I love her or asking her to hang out. I think I am giving her the space she has asked for but I am not asking her if it is or is not either. I did everything DBing says you shouldn’t (smothering, snooping, asking for reassurance). I wish I didn’t but it felt so natural to do so.

As for snooping, believe me I got more than I wanted to and to a point, I think it made the situation even more complicated. Sometimes ignorance is bliss is a true statement. I am curious, why do you think I have judgment issues btw? W says the same thing but I honestly don’t believe I am judging her. I have tried to figure it out even with my IC about this topic. Why is it called judging when I disagree with M but difference of option when W disagrees with me? I guess I am still confused about it. I might come off being judgmental but not my intention or goal. I have stopped asking about her whereabouts but she still comes out and tells me where she is going to. But that’s more for scheduling reasons rather than to share things so I don’t read too much into it.

About the things I am working on, I am trying to read as much as I can about all the issues and talk about them in IC. For Self-Confidence I am looking back into the man I was, looking at all pictures and thinking about to times where I felt like the man and I am trying to keep telling myself that is still the same man inside and I think it is working because now I don’t feel like it would be the end of the world is W left. I won’t be happy about it but I will move on. Judging, well I am trying to learn about it and how not to come off judgmental but I guess it is a true issue since W and you feel like I am. I need to learn to communicate better for sure. Controlling, I have let it all go. I am even trying to work on not asking about what is going on when S is with W. I know she is a great mother and I shouldn’t worry but since there is not line of good communication, I feel like if I don’t ask, I don’t get to hear even the funny things he has done you know?

The issue W said we had was not enough sex, she felt unsupported, abandoned, not priority. Funny thing is I felt the same way and still do. When we have issues we both close off and don’t talk about it and that leads to here.
Not sure about postpartum but sometimes I do think she is still depressed but she says she is not anymore during MC.
My IC is solution based as in I went in there and told her I need to figure out if I should be in this M or not. But I had to slow her down a bit since our MC is a lot slower. The MCer is solution based but W is not there yet. She is still saying she is trying to figure out what she wants to do. So we are not even on the “we are here to work out our issues” so it is dragging.

Sorry for another long one btw

With regards to being judgmental, it was not one of the first things I worked on....it was really in the second set. At first, I focused on being insecure, then controlling, and eventually, after a few others, I got to judgmental. I honestly didn't believe I was. I took an online quiz, I think more to prove I wasn't than anything, and I was big time. It really made me feel awful...I had no idea. So, I'm not saying you are or aren't, but a lot of what you describe reminds me of where I was.

Maybe others will chime in regarding the MC. Is W seeing an IC? It sounds like some IC on both sides may be in order for a while first, and then maybe MC. Or, you might change the focus to learning how to co-parent. I think you have to get W's agreement on how to proceed with the counseling though.

Keep reading, and keep focusing on you. Consider checking out Sex Starved Marriage by MWD.

You mentioned anger and controlling behavior....why do you think you are that way? Where did those behaviors come from?