Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Less lonely, not scared..low on patience

Hi J,

I can't add to the above ^^^^ from TVS and AJM. Awesome stuff...

Congrats on the quitting smoking, I was a pack plus a day for a LONG time, I quit 2 months after BD, so I can relate...

Hang in there, you are doing awesome!

T^2

Thanks for everyone's encouraging words. Saw W very briefly at soccer game as I mixed up the times. She hugged D10 goodbye and looked at me real sad like she always does and said goodbye. The kids and I went bowling later in the afternoon and had a whale of a time.

At 10pm my local time, W sent me the following in an email, the first one sent since mid Oct.

J,
I am ready to file our divorce papers. Can we talk details and then just hire a lawyer to file for us? We can talk face to face or via email will work too.
I am proud that I chose you for my children's father. You are a good man and I hope you find all you want from life and more.
W.

I am weirdly calm about all this. My first thought was to respond with "Knock yourself out", but I refrained. Haven't responded at all actually. Some of this is obviously MLC script. Notice how it's OUR divorce now. I don't think she has the first clue how this will go. However, that doesn't mean she wont' figure it out. She has really and truly convinced herself that it is over between us and this is what has to happen, probably for her own piece of mind.

Part of me is willing to do it, take control and compromise with her to make sure the kids are the number one priority and I am not financially ruined in the process. If we went into mediation now, I can probably get a really good deal as far as spousal support and child support, probably a few hundred dollars less than what I deposit in her account now every month. Sounds heartless, but true. If I contest this and it becomes adversarial, it will only cost both of us more money in the end.

I was telling a friend earlier tonight (close confidant actually dragged into all this after W sent him looking for me at one point to make sure I was ok), she is mentally disturbed. I feel bad about even leaving her like this, though she's gone out of her way to encourage it.

Any advice?

J

Plenty of advice. Not much time right now.

Your instincts seem correct on all counts. I see a lot of depression, but a willingness to go through with it. And you are correct that becoming adversarial about it won't end well. And will protract all of it.

I suggest you go with her wishes while she is in this frame of mind. She may not stay so friendly about it, so get it signed quickly. I don't think I'd even talk about it with her knowing what I know now. Keep your comments as brief as possible. I let mine know it wasn't what I wanted, but was going to go through with it. That may not matter or be appropriate for you.

Try not to make any future promises in your sep agreement either. You can't see the future, so you don't know what things will be like, and you don't need the added burden of a contract telling you. If she's as nutty as the squirrel poop she makes out to be, things won't stay this friendly. You may only have your contract to fall back on. Plan accordingly remembering this is her choice, not yours.

As for feeling like you are taking advantage of her or leaving her "broken"... believe me, that is what you MUST do. This isn't about you. She needs to see it through on all counts and she'll need the good with the bad. These were her choices and you helping her won't help her learn new skills.

I felt the same way with mine. I helped for a while. But she had other resources she could fall back on, and did. Things I didn't see at the time.

Your W will be fine. She will need to feel the pressure and the feelings. She won't grow until she does. You don't need to be mean about any of it. Let her do that. But you can protect yourself and the kids with the idea that this will become adversarial later.

Oh. And don't let the lawyers get in your heads. They will try to twist you into anger because they know it protracts the divorce and brings them revenue. Shop for a lawyer wisely my friend.

More later....

AJ

Hi J,

AJ has walked that path, so his advice is good.

When my W presented those thoughts around month 4 or 5 post BD (though not NEARLY so complimentary of me as you got...lol) I just told her that I did not want that, that is was her choice, and that she would have to do the work. I haven't yet heard her bring D up again. Many other things and schemes, lol, but not D in any calm seriousness like she did that time. Funny thing is she doesn't remember it...she was quite perturbed last early summer when I admitted to thinking about and consulting about a D on my own. So maybe throw it on her, see if any ACTION gets taken. Who knows, you may have a mlc'er like a certain poster here who needs to walk right up to "D-day" to suddenly "get" what may be lost...and since my W is a last minute king of person, it has crossed my mind to initiate a D to push her into really thinking...but that isn't my path or lesson I believe. I believe I am to learn patience, not fixing, letting others find their own way, and such.

Yours may differ and you might be in a different place, but I support you however you choose.


T^2

Thanks AJM and T, the two of you and all the other folks who have replied to my posts have really helped me come to terms with what is happening to W and how I need to take care of myself first. I don't think I could have done that without all of you.

I don't want this obviously. At the same time, I think she believes this is absolutely what she needs right now. I think she's one of those MLCers who want to totally cut all links to the past, particularly those that do not support her current feelings. She has convinced herself that I am hanging on and hurting, though I have been very good about not showing it.

Anyway, here is my thinking on how to proceed. I will agree to the divorce. I will contact a mediator and get an appointment as soon as possible. A few days before hand, I will send W my proposals for how to settle spousal support, child support, division of our property, assets (what little there is), and debts. Between W and I, I'm fairly confident that I am the only one of us to have read up on divorce proceedings in my state, family law guidelines on how to calculate SS and CS, actually read and filled out the various divorce documents, etc. It's really kind of odd, I feel like I'm going to have to educate her in all this.

I'll wait to hear the rest of what AJM and anyone else has to say before I respond to her, but I think I should do so soon.

J.

Hi J-

Great responses from the guys. They know what they are talking about.

I have considered myself lucky (if there is such a thing during a S's MLC!) that my H has never brought up the D word. Even when things were at their worst here.

I do have a few thoughts to share though..

I have read many times here the vets giving newbies the advice that "divorce = space". That what they MLCer is looking for may not be what you think.

My H never brought up D or S, but he did bring up leaving a few times so that he could "figure things out".

Which goes back to understanding that its about them, not you.

The other thing is this...

It took me awhile to come to this understanding... That no matter what happens, there isn't a scenario in which H and I never see each other again. We have children together, which will bond us forever.

During a big fight about a month and a half after bomb, my H told me that he wished he could run away and never have to see me or deal with me again.

And I have no doubt that he meant it at the time. None.

I think (and this is only a guess) that he either has learned or is learning that is not an option. As the parents of two small children, he is most certainly going to have to see and deal with me. But he had to figure that out for himself.

Your W seems to be questioning everything about herself and her life. I feel like the MLCer has this warped checklist in their minds of what is wrong with their life/making them unhappy. They seem to be compelled to go down their list, checking off each item they try.

And what happens when they get to the end of their list and they are still miserable? Very scary for them, I'm sure. Self-inspection time...

I wish you all the best with this. I have also read here many times that a D is just a piece of paper, that as long as you have hope, there is hope.

Only you can decide if you still have hope

TVS, I love her dearly, always have. She has let her childhood trauma (her own parents divorce and then the death of her mother when W was 17) fester for the last 25 years. Since her mothers death she has been depressed off and on (understandable!), timid with strangers or in groups, scared to put herself out there, and not very ambitious. She has had pie in the sky kind of dreams for herself, but always failed to take the first step to seeing them fulfilled. I've so wanted her to take control and responsibility for her life, of course I never imagined it would be at the expense of our family.

In many ways she has snapped back to her 16 year old self full of hope, dreams, and wonder at the world. I would be happy for her if all wasn't so obviously yet another attempt to avoid the real past. She just does not know how to deal with this or anything as far as I can tell.

She still takes very good care of the children and is cordial with me. We will always have a bond with the children, very close families, and 25 years of good marriage (she admits as much, she says now the marriage was not good for her with regard to dealing with her issues). I think that she just really feels she needs this divorce to move on. She wants me to let go, I think out of guilt for the EA and how much misery she has put me through. I firmly believe that this will have to happen and the sooner the better, for her and me. I also believe that she will regret this in the future. I hope she has the courage to say so one day. I want her to heal herself and be happy.
J

Her email to me was titled 'tomorrow'. I didn't know what she meant by that. Had she filled out the substantial amount of paperwork and worked her swiss-cheese brain to develop a joint custody plan and calculate child support as required? Did she intend on filing tomorrow?

I called her a few minutes ago and, as I suspected (knew), she has not even looked on the court website to see what docs would need to be submitted. She has no freaking idea about any of it. No doubt she is handing this off to me. I am going to contact a mediator tomorrow. I am going to make a proposal that will express my desires as to how things should be mediated. I am going to do what is best for me and my children. She is clueless. It's just pathetic.

I told her I had always hoped she would take control of her own life, I just didn't imagine it would be at the expense of us and our family. She said, what do you mean. I said I always knew you could do more, follow your ambitions, etc. She said, and you were always disappointed in me because I didn't and that was one of our problems (she is very, very hard on herself, serious self-esteem and confidence issues). I said no, I was not disappointed in her, I just wanted the best for her. And then I said I would let her know when I could get the mediation appointment and send her my divorce agreement proposal when I can.

She is making the biggest mistake of her life and as usual, she needs my help to even get to step one. After this is finalized, I will not be in that role again. I will bet my left you know what, heck, both of them, that within 2 years, probably less, she will realize our marriage was not the issue and what she lost to find that out. I don't know if she will ever let me know that, I don't know if I will even want to know by that time, I don't know if I will even be available. I suspect not, as she said, I'm a very good catch.
j

J, you may very well be right that she'll figure it out later. But she may not. You might have at one time been surprised to see how the thinking goes and how devoid of logic (as we know it) there really is. It's really all about emotions and coping with them. For somebody that has not yet learned to deal with emotions in a constructive way, that's a daunting task.

She's obviously conflicted right now. She wants to be "free" but knows she may later regret what she is doing. She's afraid of the future but going forward anyway. Regardless what she tells herself, this is her choice.

I can recall thinking the same of my ex. She acted like she didn't want to hurt me, but couldn't help it at the same time. Later, she turned to anger (her go-to emotion) to deal with it. She's still using anger, and is aiming it me. Presumably so she doesn't aim it elsewhere. i.e. where it belongs. 5 years later and she's using the same tool to cope. When she left, she wanted to be friends (not sure what she had in mind after lying and cheating and the anger, but it wasn't on my agenda I assure you.) But the anger and craziness was always there under the surface. She took my pain as a reason to leave. She didn't deal with the guilt well. What she didn't realize is that my pain was for her and my kids, not the loss of the marriage or the lies and betrayal. I've been lied to before I also realized it really wasn't about me early on. If it was, we'd still be married or at least friendly by now. She is not.

The hardest part coming is that one day, she'll have to deal with this. It won't be at a time of her choosing. It will be difficult to say the least. You may be long gone by then. But no matter how you slice it, you'll be done long before she is, J. That's a tough road for her. A lonely road.

But it's a road she has embarked on and must finish. There is nothing you can do but heal and be compassionate without being too friendly or hurting yourself. Fine line.

It'll get crazier from here, J. I know you can't see that right now, but if you really think about it objectively, you need to get away from the blast zone as quickly as you can. Let her grow and learn what she needs to learn. But do it from a great distance if you can.

As for the divorce, helping her with it is one thing. I see no reason you should educate her on it. She'll use that against her later saying you manipulated her. Kind of like teaching somebody to play cards. They always suspect you cheated "somehow" to take advantage. Let her follow your lead, but I don't see why or how you could help her other than making the calls etc.

Last thought. By doing what you're doing and furthering the divorce, you are becoming the leaver, vs. the lbs. That won't become apparent until much later in the thinking. That's not a bad thing, J. It will play out later in a different way than you might expect.

Keep the objectivity in your actions. Watch out for your best interests and structure the divorce in a way that doesn't keep you on the hook for ever. This is not about being nice or helpful, but rather just business. I strongly suggest you get the advice of a lawyer before finalizing.

Peace,
AJ

Thanks AJ, duly noted.