Part of me wants to say, "well, that is your choice, I have mine" sorta thing, or something along rH's line of "deciding on her timeline" to her H, or nothing except "thank you for your honesty, I appreciate it"...
^^^ The first is too cold, the last too unhelpful. She's reaching out to you for help/advice. You have to do better than that.
Originally Posted By: snodderly
Your wife is thinking out loud. She still has a lot insecurities about the way she looks and her life as it is right now. I would respond with something like this: "W, I read your email and I want to thank you for sharing your feelings with me this morning. I do understand some of what you are feeling right now about the boys and the house being empty. Would you like to sit down this evening and discuss what you are feeling with me?" Put the ball back into her court and see if she will respond back to you w/a yes.
Your wife is reaching out a bit w/these snippets.
^^^ This is how to respond. But I would step up the "would you like to" to a more assertive "Let's get together tonight so we can properly discuss this."
She's reaching out to you for guidance and support, seize the opportunity! She NEEDS you right now.
I look forward to hearing how things go.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
just to be clear, the below was only for the not wanting to stop her online OP activities completely, not the other issues, those I am all over
Quote:
Part of me wants to say, "well, that is your choice, I have mine" sorta thing, or something along rH's line of "deciding on her timeline" to her H, or nothing except "thank you for your honesty, I appreciate it"...
thank you for the responses so far...mulling over things and doing what I have learned...no knee jerk reactions...wait...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
I would just point out that these are typical depression symptoms and that she would be wise to follow through with her plans to see her Dr. and restart Wellbutrin.
T, You do not want to be too assertive when suggesting that the two of you get together this evening. If you go gung ho and be assertive about sitting down tonight...it may very well scare her back into her shell. She needs to have control and/or option of whether she wants to sit down and discuss it w/you...that's why I made the suggestion the way I did to you earlier.
Tread lightly because she is very fragile right now. She is like a fine piece of china and you do not want to shatter her inner self. She needs to have the freedom and feel safe in expressing her concerns out loud to you and if you slam dunk her w/assertiveness, she will shut down. You've come too far to change your course now. Stay the course of being a good listener, a gentle and patient soul. Please be patient! She is starting to open up more and more and she needs to feel safe.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Snodderly, you are right. In my sitch, pre-BD I was the assertive one, the dominant personality and W has said that that isn't working anymore (and I have learned that it wasn't exactly good for me, either). I do want her to lose the "parental" figure perception of me she has had. And any new R must be more balanced for both of us, because I rather like the changes I have made in letting people be responsible for their own stuff...neither of us want to return to the old imbalance, it has to be different than it was, so in my case, avoid too much assertiveness and continue letting her drive the dance.
kml, she did go to the Dr and restart on the wellbutrin, so by end of this week it should be built up enough to start being psychoactive. I have been telling her that a lot of this "sounds like depression talking" (I use "sounds like" so I don't come off as a know it all, that turns her off these days) and it seems to help her get more grounded. Now if we could just get some CBT or DBT thrown in...eh, baby steps...The good thing is that she is realizing how much depression is running through this.
So, after not responding to her emails, W did call me and we had a nice chat, though her voice might have belied a wee bit of worry, but I was just "me" myself so I think she calmed down and has moved forward for now.
Thinking more on the online stuff she shared...I have to realize that she DID tell me something, that she is trying to not hide, or lie. I could read that as she has been trying to stay away from it, but was having a strong pull back to escape her current discomfort...and she communicated that. And I get that, lord knows how many times I wanted to escape my hurt for a bit at my favorite remote mountain hot spring with a 12-pack these past 18 months, and I gave it serious consideration quite a few times...so I can choose to make allowances and just assume she is trying until I know otherwise.
This is a hard stage...be there, but not too much, etc.
I think I will let her know I'm available to talk more when I get home, as I can give her undivided attention better when I'm not at work.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Oh, T^2, lots of issues, but at least she is reaching out to you.
Even though she hasn't eliminated all these replay behaviors (as neither has my H) are you getting more of a sense of "we" between the two of you?
Has there been more interest in affection from you...hugging and the like?
I copied Michelle's golden rules yesterday from the piecing forum. I really liked the "don't forget to laugh". A few days ago when H responded to an email of mine (not a forward but my own ideas) and said "HAHAHA!!!! That took me a while to get it! Hil-freakin-larious!!" I instinctively KNEW that was a good thing!
Does W joke with you much..texting or emails? It seems easier for me to joke with my H electronically. Sometimes it's so heavy when we see each other but then again we don't live in the same household.
H spent a couple of evenings ago here just with his headphones and his PC listening to comedy skits on YouTube and laughing a lot. I thought it was SO healthy
Hope tonight goes well for you, T, Thinking of you as always, And thinking very highly of you as always, rH
Me54/H47 '08 H is "done" March '12 H moved out Brink of D, December '12 2014 totally reconciled! ...... "I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal." Jim Conway
FY, I do have to be careful with the assertive card, I want to save it for when I think I will get the most out my limited uses, sooo, I went assertive "lite".
When I got home I did my usual check in with the boys, then W, except this time I sat down and said basically what Snodderly said to say...W at first said she didn't want to talk about it, so I said okay and stayed put on the couch and read some email on my iphone, as if no big deal I always do this (normally i say okay and go head to do my meditation)...well a couple minutes later she started talking...we talked a good 45 minutes or so and it went very well. The chatting/OM thing wasn't brought up, and I think I am going to let that lay for now, it's only been a couple weeks so past experience taught me that it will take a while longer...Do I trust her? Nope, no way, not yet...BUT, I DO trust myself to know or be able to tell if she gets all EA again...the pattern I have noticed is that about 1 year ago, she was trying to stop but couldn't and told me she needed 6 more months. She did tell me this recently in our talks, confirming my observations and thoughts I wrote down at the time...then this summer she warmed up to me when she was trying to stop and went back to it once school started, again confirming my thoughts and theories at the time. And yes, that text saying "last one" with the naughty pic attached in mid October was indeed saying what I guessed.
So I think I have enough confirmed field observations to trust my instincts, intuition and Sherlock Holmes powers of observation to trust myself to know, without any snooping. That's kinda a cool feeling...
Another thing occurred to me this evening, that she probably isn't thinking D, because her emails are really loading me up with information leverage if we were to go that path. She must really feel safe with me that I'm not going use it against her...so idk, I'm not putting too much energy into that thought.
rH, sometimes I get more a feeling of "we", like I have a name again when she is talking with school parents, teachers, etc, instead of just "my husband", I am "T^2, my husband", and I did get a couple brief looks like the old days...that "cherished", and/or, "safe/secure" look...idk how to describe it correctly, but I recognized it. But then again, I got her "mlc face" a couple times too.
I have been trying, but mlc has taken her humor chip pretty often. She goes in phases where she will watch a lot of humor, and look for/be open to it, and it's great! Then she'll swing into a negative funk and nothing seems to work. She says she feels bad for me because I do try so hard.
One funny thing was that she is trying to get the family set up with this hypnotist for an issue we all share, and I replied back to her that I should NOT get an appt because "aside from her, no one has ever been able to hypnotize me", she responded back all serious "what do you mean "aside from me"" and I just replied "i meant exactly that"... I got an "I see" response back. Later in the weekend she skirted around wondering if that was me flirting, and I basically replied "only if I was successful, otherwise, "h3ll no!" with my daring-est mischievous grin...I don't know why I shared that...hope it gives you some idea of the dynamics...so much these days I am just too wiped out to figure out and so I put them in the "mystery bucket" for later...
Thanks again everyone, this board is a sanity saver...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
T, I'm glad things went well last night. You gave her the option of whether or not to talk about her email and when she saw that you weren't going to force the issue, she started talking. Mlcers have to be given an option so that THEY can make THEIR own decisions. It's about control, nothing more.
She's baking up quite nicely and a slow way, which is good. You don't want to rush the process and then she run back up into the tunnel the first time something isn't to her liking.
Keep up the good work. Your skittish kitten is starting to feel safer in her own skin.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
FY, I do have to be careful with the assertive card, I want to save it for when I think I will get the most out my limited uses, sooo, I went assertive "lite".
Originally Posted By: T^2
In my sitch, pre-BD I was the assertive one, the dominant personality and W has said that that isn't working anymore
I had forgotten this.^^^ Quite different from my sitch, where W said she felt she was driving the boat and I was just tagging along for the ride! (hay, what can I say, I was easy to please and didn't ask for much)
I'm so glad to hear things went well last night, you certainly are on course, keep it up!
Originally Posted By: T^2
Another thing occurred to me this evening, that she probably isn't thinking D, because her emails are really loading me up with information leverage if we were to go that path. She must really feel safe with me that I'm not going use it against her...so idk, I'm not putting too much energy into that thought.
Interesting. I didn't think you were still concerned that she wanted to D.
Originally Posted By: T^2
rH, sometimes I get more a feeling of "we", like I have a name again when she is talking with school parents, teachers, etc, instead of just "my husband", I am "T^2, my husband", and I did get a couple brief looks like the old days...that "cherished", and/or, "safe/secure" look...idk how to describe it correctly, but I recognized it.
That "We" is what we need to build on IMHO.
Originally Posted By: T^2
I have been trying, but mlc has taken her humor chip pretty often. She goes in phases where she will watch a lot of humor, and look for/be open to it, and it's great! Then she'll swing into a negative funk and nothing seems to work. She says she feels bad for me because I do try so hard.
What is it she thinks you are trying too hard at? How can you change that perception?
Originally Posted By: T^2
One funny thing was that she is trying to get the family set up with this hypnotist for an issue we all share, and I replied back to her that I should NOT get an appt because "aside from her, no one has ever been able to hypnotize me", she responded back all serious "what do you mean "aside from me"" and I just replied "i meant exactly that"... I got an "I see" response back. Later in the weekend she skirted around wondering if that was me flirting, and I basically replied "only if I was successful, otherwise, "h3ll no!" with my daring-est mischievous grin...I don't know why I shared that...hope it gives you some idea of the dynamics...
Hey, if you can get away with a little flirting, (and it sounds like you did) you should. If she didn't like it, you'd know.
Thank you so much for all your help in my sitch. It really means a lot to me!
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Hi T! Following along, even if I don't always get a chance to comment or post...
I was thinking about your wife being jealous of the mom that she saw. To me, that epitomizes that "teenage" thinking of competition and jealousy. I thought it was great that she could verbalize what she was thinking, that she recognized her feelings.
It also goes back to what we have discussed before - it seems they want/need validation about their attractiveness from someone other than their spouse. Which may be tough for us to understand, since we are thinking the exact opposite... We would like that validation from our spouse.
My posse tells me all the time, you could get any guy you want! Ummm, that's not the point. There's only one guy I'm interested in right now (even if he is an alien pod person)!
I think it's good you did a little "lite" flirting, nothing that makes her feel pressured to return the feeling, yet lets her know you still think of her that way.
We can never assume anything, right?
Continue to do a great job at listening without judgement. Unconditional love.
I remember when H and I had a big blowout last March. I sifted through the spew after the fact, and found some interesting insights that I can relate to your sitch...
- he said he wanted to be around people who made him feel good about himself
- he said he wanted to be around people who wouldn't judge him
Days later, upset that the boys wanted me, he told me with tears in his eyes "I just want to be loved."
Some things to think about
Continue on your path, you inspire each of us to be the best we can be and love our spouses the best that we can, even if they don't appreciate it right now.
Btw, I can totally picture you as a Robert Downey Jr. type Sherlock Holmes (who also meal plans and cooks )
Keep up the awesome work!
Bomb January 2012 - doesn't feel the same about me
~ "There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance."
to trust myself to know, without any snooping. That's kinda a cool feeling...