A quick profile for you.. together 9years.. wife is 39 and I am 38.... she has a daughter from a previous relationship... as do I .. mine is 16 her's is 15..... For the past 8yrs we had a great relationship.. no relationship is perfect.. but ours was pretty close.. almost never fought.. (couple of times a year).. we went on vacations to the islands twice a year.. we both had newer cars.. we both had motorcycles.. a nice house.. not the best of everything.. but it was good for us....
She lost her job a few years ago.. it wasn't a career or anything.. just an average job.. but she had always wanted to be a nurse.. so last year she started the nursing program. Her first year was extremely stressful on her... her hair even started to thin out a little.. a year ago she started having female problems and the Doctor determined that she should have a partial hysterectomy which she ended up having last June. Ever since she has turned 39 last May, she has been talking about turning 40! and how old she felt.. .... So yes.... turning 40.. having a hysterectomy... felt like her body was falling apart...all part of feeling old... (mind you she is a very attractive woman)... So last year when she was in school it was very stressful on us.. not that we fought.. but she was so stressed that all she did was eat and breath school.. which was fine.. we talked a lot before she started school that she would need to spend a lot of time and effort on it... Then summer came and we made it thru her surgery np.... everything was good.. we had one of the best summers.. hung out by the pool. were really close with each other.. but I had noticed every since she started school she was withdrawing from everyone else.. Her family.. .friends... I was the only one she was still close with.. When she started school this past fall everything had changed.. my daughter who had never lived with us full time before came to live with us... so that was added stress.. of course school was a huge stress.... she was fighting with her mom... felt her mom was taking advantage of her. (they are snowbirds and live with us a few weeks out of the year before they head to florida) ...that was causing major issues.. about a month after starting school she started dressing up and younger.... . which she had never done before.. losing weight... staying after class for drinks with friends from school.. stuff like that.. but I was happy she made friends (even though they were all 19 and 20yrolds) because it was giving her a way to blow off stress.. she told me one day in mid October she felt like the head cheerleader.. everyone thought she was soo cool and fun to be around.. by november she was going out and staying out til 2 or 3 in the morning... only about 4 times.. but so not like her to do that.. she always believed married people don't stay out and party alone like that so late.. if they are staying out like that then they bring there spouse.. I still didn't say much about it... only because it seemed like she was having fun.. but she would make comments like "she was having the best time of her life" and stuff like that... and I would look at her like what?? your hanging around with people that are 20yrs younger than you and your having the best time of your life? When the bomb dropped early Dec it was one of the nights she didn't come home at all till the next day... so at that point I knew things were going to go from bad to worse.. and they did.. she started staying she needed space.. she wasn't happy anymore.. her daughter wasn't happy.. and yes of course over this period of time I was getting moody as well.. only because my wife was changing infront of me and until I came to this site I had no idea why she was..
So yes to answer your questions I do believe it is a MLC... an the stress of turning 40.. starting a very hard program in school after being out of college for 20yrs... having a hysterectomy.... and having a childhood where she was not wanted at all by her mother... even to this day her mother shows her very very little love or affection.
Hope this helps with giving advice..
M-39 W-41 T-9yrs BD-Dec 2012 “regardless of your choices and the fact that they may have caused me to experience painful emotions, I still love you because I recognize the purpose of our journey.”
also one last thing... I agree with you 100%.. I am not a perfect person .. or spouse or anything.. I had been working a lot over the past year.. .but again it was something we talked about .. that we both knew I was needing a vacation.. stuff like.. and I was starting to get into a bad mood all the time over the past few months.. but it was more of a reaction than an action. I was feeding off the environment I was living in. Not an excuse.. but before I came on this site ( which was after I had already caught her with the OM) it was already too late for me to DB properly. So needless to say I had done all begging and pleading with her not to do leave and move out..
M-39 W-41 T-9yrs BD-Dec 2012 “regardless of your choices and the fact that they may have caused me to experience painful emotions, I still love you because I recognize the purpose of our journey.”
If your wife didn't love you for all of those years, she wouldn't have remained w/you. Also, you would have "sensed" if she didn't love you.
They stuff those loving and good feelings that they have for their spouses when the switch is flipped at midlife. What bubbles up to the surface is all of the stunted emotional feelings/growth that needs attention. They need to travel back to the time when their emotional growth was stunted, thus this is usually at a young age. Once there, they will act out and eventually (hopefully) resolve those issues, i.e., come to understand that they were not at fault for the way that they were treated and/or mistreated.
Yes, your wife loved you, but right now, her personality is the exact opposite of the pre-crisis woman. She is the "mirror image of the woman you love. During the crisis, she will try on various masks and personas to try to figure out who she really is. You may see the behavior of a child, a teenager and then an adult all in one afternoon. They do cycle back and forth through the stages, except for acceptance.
The best thing you can do is live your life as if she may not return. If you know that you have some changes to make, then make them and be sure that they are permanent and not to win her back. Take up some hobbies or do the things that you've put off while she is time traveling. You are now on your own journey of self discovery. Time, patience and knowledge will help you in traveling the mlc path.
snodderly, thanks for posting this. for whatever reason, reading this today really helped me advance my understanding of my own situation a little further. Have read many of your posts and certainly appreciate the time you spend sharing on this board.
Negril, sorry for the brief hijack. I am relatively new here so no advice yet but you are getting great commentary from some of the vets.... Stay strong!
Me-48,W-51 M-22,T-24 S- 18,16,9 Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
M-39 W-41 T-9yrs BD-Dec 2012 “regardless of your choices and the fact that they may have caused me to experience painful emotions, I still love you because I recognize the purpose of our journey.”
Negril - just got caught up on your sitch a little bit. If you think this is MLC then you know you're in for a long, hard road my friend. There is absolutely nothing you can do to speed up the process, all you can do is get out of the way and not let it consume you. Quoting something that was recently asked of me:
The goal, is to outlast her MLC. Can you do that ? Do you want to do that ?
Take some time to think about these and be honest with yourself. I see a lot of your posts revolve around what your W is doing with this young asshat. You have to let it go and start living your life. Your post from JP's thread is what actually got my attention tonight:
Originally Posted By: Negril72
Thanks JP.... sorry for the moment of weakness... but wow that hurt.... and worse yet she looked good..... of course he looks like shaggy for scoobby doo... .and that's no lie... he actually does...
you have been thru something like that I assume??? it destroyed my night.... 40 secs messes up my who night... I came home and cancelled my plans for the night... (just hanging with friends).... but still.. like someone punched me in the gut... how someone who is 40 can be with a 23yr old loser who lives with him mom still??? what did I do wrong in life...
she had it all here.. a new house... a new camaro... going back to school... it was all hers.... and she burnt it down with no regrets.....
Did cancelling your plans tonight help you at all? My guess is it likely did the opposite. Hanging with your buddies likely would have taken your mind off your sitch at least for a little while.
As snodderly posted to you earlier:
Originally Posted By: snodderly
The best thing you can do is live your life as if she may not return. If you know that you have some changes to make, then make them and be sure that they are permanent and not to win her back. Take up some hobbies or do the things that you've put off while she is time traveling. You are now on your own journey of self discovery. Time, patience and knowledge will help you in traveling the mlc path.
Originally Posted By: Negril72
what did I do wrong in life...
If you believe this is MLC then you know your W is dealing with a lot of stuff right now and who knows how much of it is because of you. Ask the question more as a way to look inside yourself and figure out things you want to change for YOU and not feeling like a victim of MLC.
I feel your emotion and have felt very similar feelings. Problem is, that I learned the hard way, is feeling like the victim will get me nowhere I want to be.
If you haven't already, I would dive into the MLC resource threads and really try to figure out what you're up against. Make sure to check out heartsblessings post about 6 stages of MLC. You'll soon realize that there is a definite script to MLC that they all seem to follow and it $ucks for us LBS. In learning the script it has helped me deal with it when my W starts saying some of the crazy things. My favorite post is MLC for dummies (once you've done the other research). Pretty sure my wife bought smurfs 'book' and used many of the lines word for word. Good times!
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
(ADMINISTRATIVE SIDENOTE for you and other new posters=== Please understand that it makes it a lot easier for us to help you if you
STAY ON ONE THREAD. I mean, sure post to others about THEIR situations when you feel qualified or want to support someone,
but don't start new threads so often or so fast. I have lost people I've followed b/c they change names or start so many new threads in the hopes of getting more advice, but inherently the advice is piece meal b/c we lack the context or history or whole story. AND besides, then you have to retell the story to update. I thought you should know AND FYI, I DID THE SAME THING WHEN I BEGAN HERE...or worse, I'd "hitchhike" someone else's thread.) [/i]
Originally Posted By: Negril72
I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me.... I have been reading all kinds of post on this site now for just over a month now... and please someone correct me if I am wrong because I think I am. Since all these MLC stuff comes from there childhood and the issues that weren't dealt with properly. I rarely say this phrase b/c it's such a turn off to good communication, but here I go
You are wrong.
First, you do NOT KNOW that this is MLC.
Second, so what if it is? That Does not change YOUR COURSE OF ACTION.
Third, even if it is MLC, it's NOT ALL about their childhood. OTHER events happened and ARE STILL happening and you are in the show too. This isn't a solo act.
Ever notice that when some LBSers says "Oh my WAS MUST be in MLC"
it seems to them to mean two things, 1) maybe they'll return, just because....so I'll wait here...and DO nothing new or different. AND 2) since it's NOT ME, it's all them & their wacky crazy MLC,
THERE IS NOTHING I DID OR CAN DO. I SHALL BE A POWERLESS VICTIM...
Negril, I reject that^^^.
My h MAY have had an MLC. All I know is he changed SOME behaviors, and some others got worse, but had been building.
I had attributed those worsening behaviors to work stress or things UNrelated to me or our m. I spent far too much time wondering what was going on with my h, what HE was thinking/feeling/doing/planning...or with whom...that's my biggest regret and notice, we reconciled.
I read a ton about MLC and a few were fine but mostly, not very helpful b/c
I should have STARTED with the question It me took a year to get to, which is "What can I do NOW to become a better woman/mother, and maybe wife, the best ME I can become?"
In other words, how can I become a woman only a fool would leave?" I also had children to consider and they were hurting. My pain did not help them. Letting them see my work through it, probably did. But I wasted a lot of time.
The focus must be on YOUR OWN WORK IN YOU b/c
1) you have no control over hers, (SHE's not here trying to save the marriage. You are.)
AND
2) you DO have work to do on YOU. (We all do.)
So Don't blow this horrible but excellent chance for the most personal growth you'll ever experience,
by wallowing in self pity and blaming her. Don't stay stuck. GROW and IMPROVE AS A MAN and become a man only a fool would leave.
BACK TO YOU...and yes let's focus on YOU.
What has your wife EVER SAID to you about your marriage that indicated dissatisfaction on her end?
You referred to ups and downs in your first post, before any OM came along. What were they?
What would your w SAY TO ME if I were to ask her WHY she wants out of the marriage?
And is ANY of it valid?
B/c if it is, and let's hope so, then you can work on those traits that you choose to work on so you can become the best YOU that is possible.
Why did I say "and let's hope so" when I ask if any of your w's complaints about you are valid? B/C if you really were a perfect h to her, and she left anyhow, then you are powerless in this situation and that's a tragedy. How will you ever trust another woman if you know they'll leave even when you are perfect?
But if any or all of it IS true or valid, then YOU ARE NOT POWERLESS...
TRUST ME, you want at least some of this to be your fault b/c then at least some of this is changeable.
Make sense? For me this^^ was a dang important and powerful insight.
Please wrap your brain around it asap.
And a lot of people say that they have been wearing a mask all this time and haven't been able to be themselves because of it. So does that mean my wife whom I have known for all these never really truly loved me??? and if that is true..... then why would she ever come back to me if she was never really in love with me in the first place? I want to stand for my marriage and the woman I love dearly... but did she ever love me?
You say you want to stand for the marriage but you sure spend a lot of time and energy on HER past/present and a lot of mind reading too.
Have you really read the Div Remedy book?
Okay I'll answer your question but then you answer mine, please.
YES your wife once loved you OR she's a psychopath & you're lucky she left OR she's the world's great actress and missed her real calling.
Your wedding and honeymoon and your entire courtship were all a charade & she used you for...sex? Money? Status? A car? Only to leave you when she wanted to make a career change so ...wait, she can't have used you for sex or money or status b/c the OM offers her none of those...
So she had no reason to ACT in her own TV life story...and unless you say she's a sociopath without a conscience, I'm going to bet YES she once loved you very much and at some level, still does.
There are layers of other emotions that are fogging that for her now. I don't know enough to tell you if it's anger or resentment or a low self esteem (or all those which are often combined)
0r she felt neglected and under valued or critisized or any of the above... But somehow we want her to let the good memories of your history together and the good positive emotions she feels, down deep, to resurface.
You'll have to counter whatever negative images she has of you and the m, that she must be using to justify leaving
with positive images and behaviors. Do not fuel her negative images of you. Counter them and contrast them. You want her to think her negative data about you is not true AND OR that it is not true NOW...b/c you have had an awakening.
Make sense?
So, what are YOU DOING TO SHOW HER ANY CHANGES IN YOU?
B/c if you want "the secret" (there really isn't one) but I'd sum my comments into one sentence. Your wife will NOT return to your marriage UNLESS
she believes it'll be better/different than before.
So what are YOU DOING to show her that?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
wow... ok I am going to attempt to answer all of that..
First you are right.. I was posting on Jp's thread.. and I did respond to you on there already but from now on I will stick to this thread.
I am assuming that it is MLC... and there is no way I can prove it is.. but because of her actions.. her behavior from the person she has always been to the person she is now I would have to say it is... her morals and values have been tossed out the window. Our friends have all said they can't believe she is doing all of the things she use to think were wrong and bad for a relationship.
I do believe that she loved me very much at one time.. and still does deep down. Yes I have a good job now.. but for a period of our relationship I didn't.. she was supporting me and was happy to do so. We always had a very high respect for each other like that and would do anything to make the other one happy.
"There are layers of other emotions that are fogging that for her now. I don't know enough to tell you if it's anger or resentment or a low self esteem (or all those which are often combined)"
I believe that it's a combination of all those things. For the past year she has been talking about feeling old and ugly.. She has resentment me for my daughter coming to live with us. one day while she was spewing her anger towards me she told me she was happy with her life the way it was and didn't want it to change. But all the years leading up to my daughter coming to live with us she was first in line to support this and make it happen for us to all be a family.
I would have to say the biggest change with me over the past year was that I had been working too much... and because of it I haven't been near has happy and cheerful like I normally would be. That's not to say I coming home every night yelling and screaming and kicking the dog... nothing like that. If anything I was more quiet..... exhausted. But we had talked many times about me working so much and she knew the reasons why I was being different. We would still go out and do stuff every weekend.. dinner.. shopping.. hanging with friends. . I was never the perfect husband.. nor was she the perfect wife. But we were better than most. We talked all the time.. sit in the hot tub nightly and talk for hours.. I am starting to wonder if I was as good of a listener as I should have been... because obviously I was missing something that she was trying to tell me.
So one I would say I need to listen more.. stop always trying to be right or correct her.
I need to stop trying to be a fixer all the time. I have to separate my need to love and protect her... and just be there when she needs me to be instead of always trying to make things perfect for her. I realize now how much pressure this was causing her.. too much love .. sounds like it would be a good thing but it's not.
I need to learn to relax more and enjoy life... to find my own happiness... I was living in the motto" happy wife... happy life"
I use to laugh and giggle... be more a simple man.. stuff never really got me down regardless of what it was.. but I do know lately I was letting the stress of life keep me from being the happy go lucky guy I use to be. I know that my W has said many times that is what she loved about me the most.
after reading all of what you wrote it does make me look more at myself. seeing changes I need to make. As for her noticing them? I can't see how she can when we don't even talk or see each other. At least for now we aren't. It's also hard to make changes for her when I am not 100% sure I am making the ones that bugged her the most. it's not like she sat down and listed a bunch of stuff when she said she wanted to leave.. she was saying that this was for her happiness.. that she had to go out and do it on her own. she needed space to see who she was.
The problems or changes that needed to be fixed could have easily been fixed if we stayed together. But she decided to have an affair and run away. why do they feel they need to do this rather than work on the marriage?
I am still in FEAR of letting go of her... even though she has let go of me...... that's the next step I need to get over.
M-39 W-41 T-9yrs BD-Dec 2012 “regardless of your choices and the fact that they may have caused me to experience painful emotions, I still love you because I recognize the purpose of our journey.”
No I have to agree cancelling with my buddies last night didn't help me much at all.. But I do have a question to ask... when it comes to friends. I find my friends (maybe because were guys) are putting a lot of pressure on me to "get over it" move on.... start dating? go and and find a FWB... forget about her. she's a horrible person. I keep telling them I need more time but they can't figure out why. They think the minute I found out there was OM that I should have went out and been with another girl. I really only have one friend that is supportive of me standing for my M. Everyone else thinks I am crazy... Yes they all agree that they thought we had a great marriage.. but it's done.. move on. So standing for my M is not easy when I am getting pressure from friends and always trying to get set up on dates.
Yes I do believe it is a MLC.. and yes after spending a month on here reading everything everyone's sitch I can see that it is going to be a long hard road.
I have read over the 6 stages of MLC... she does fit into them very well..
"The goal, is to outlast her MLC. Can you do that ? Do you want to do that ?"
I really want to outlast her MLC. Can I? do I want to do that? YES.. but it is going to really really HARD. I am in my 3rd month.... some people on here are in their 3rd year.. and that scares the hell out of me.
M-39 W-41 T-9yrs BD-Dec 2012 “regardless of your choices and the fact that they may have caused me to experience painful emotions, I still love you because I recognize the purpose of our journey.”
Your friends see you in pain and they believe your W is the cause so they're telling you to move on to stop the pain. It's normal and pretty much everyone I know off the boards used to tell me the same thing. Wouldn't really be friends if they just watched you in misery and didn't say anything I explained to mine what I was doing and with most had to put the boundary saying no M or family talk. Unless you're in it most people just don't understand. Most are fine with it and don't bring it up anymore. Kind of a I don't understand but it's your life type of thing. Some can't do it and we've pretty much stopped talking.
It's a tough conversation to have with your buddies (and family) but one you'll likely have to have if you plan to stand. It just ends up being negative energy and thoughts and you don't need anymore of that noise.
Years of this is scary and why I asked you the question. Think about it this way, are you willing to give up 2 years of your life for a chance at a 50th anniversary knowing those 2 years are going to likely be hardest of your life? Good news is these boards are full of people that will support you all the way through.
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
