I didn't even do that because I feel like if D3 was old enough to understand what mommy was doing, she wouldn't get her anything either. But that might be too harsh.
That thought disturbs me for some reason. Maybe it's because I sense that you have some hope that your D will be against W's actions. My kids are 10, 16 and 18 and old enough to understand my sitch. They know W left and they know she offered no reasons(to them), and they are upset about it. But they love W very much, and they still enjoy "family" get-togethers for holidays and birthdays. I've gone out of my way to make it clear to them that despite our sitch, we BOTH love them very much and we BOTH want to spend as much time as we can with them. You should encourage your D in the same ways. Your W will always be your D's mom and regardless of what happens between the two of you, you should encourage a loving, strong relationship between your D and W.
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I was definitely the H who said "whatever you want", the complete opposite of controlling. And she has mentioned it to me many times over the years that she would like to see me plan something and execute without her input.
Good, then you know what you need to do. In my case I was the opposite of you, I was very alpha in my M and made decisions for us all the time. This is one of the things that makes me so good at my occupation, people come to me for answers and I tell them what to do in no uncertain terms. My W HATED it. A 180 for me has been to involve W in decisions great and small, and she told me at RetroV that she really appreciates that. I'm just mentioning this for others who may be reading, just to highlight that there is no "one size fits all" approach to this stuff.
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and told me to purge the indecisiveness from my psych.
Just to clarify, making decisions with your W is not the same thing as indecisiveness. Indecisiveness would be something like "where do you want to eat?" "Gee, I don't know, what do you want?" And yes, you should purge that if that's the way you were. But if there's a decision to be made, for example, like sending D to a private school, if you just make that decision without W's input then that is NOT the same thing. If she's anything like my W she will resent that you didn't talk to her first. Now that doesn't mean go to your W and say "what do you want to do?" Rather, it would be going to her and saying "I was looking at XYZ school for D and it looks pretty good, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this." The former is indecisive. The latter is involving her in the decision-making process.
Personally I think you're walking on thin ice if you just blow off Valentine's Day and then tell her "well I decided not to get you anything." I don't think she'll perceive that as a strong, decisive move on your part so much as an a-hole move. But you know her better than we do, so judge accordingly.
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I planned the Saturday night outing to the psychic show and bought tickets, and then chose where we went to eat afterwards. I have also done this several times during the last 2.5 months and had written about the positive response I got from her, here on the board.
And that's good stuff! So if you blow off VD, you're basically doing the opposite of the above. What result do you expect? I'm asking that honestly, do you think it will bring you closer to your goal or farther away from it?
I spent many hours last night reading your posts and your original sitch. GH31 has recommended a long time ago that I read the threads of the successful male veterans.
i have read a lot of David, Nathan, Denver, and now your threads and I am honored that you have been coming to my thread to offer me support! Your story is inspirational, and I think you would probably agree with my previous post that sometimes tough love can be very effective with spouses active in an affair.
Call it consequences, call it the "reality stick", call it boundaries, call it what you want. The bottom line is that us LBS need to get out of the way of the lesson that our wayward needs to learn. We cannot protect them, we cannot soften the landing, we cannot keep providing the emotional needs that OP is not meeting.
I saw that you said you think you were successful with your wife because you were stern and not accomodating, but at the same time you showed affection (like kissing her forehead, covering her when she fell asleep on the couch etc..) when it was the right thing to do. I admire your abilities, and hope I can have the strength to do the same.
Laurie has had me experiment with light touch, similar to what you did with your W. My W did not recoil or back off, and was even willing to touch me, at least to give me a nice back rub. Not sure what Laurie will have me do next, but I would assume it is probably more physical affection. I just need to work up the courage to also come down hard on the financial aspect. That will allow me to exhibit my tender, soft, loving, affectionate side, and my strong confident and masculine side at the same time. From your sitch, and the other vets I mentioned earlier, that seems to be the effective combination when dealing with a WAW who is not "done" with you yet (when you seem to be plan B).
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
I spent many hours last night reading your posts and your original sitch. GH31 has recommended a long time ago that I read the threads of the successful male veterans.
i have read a lot of David, Nathan, Denver, and now your threads and I am honored that you have been coming to my thread to offer me support! Your story is inspirational, and I think you would probably agree with my previous post that sometimes tough love can be very effective with spouses active in an affair.
Call it consequences, call it the "reality stick", call it boundaries, call it what you want. The bottom line is that us LBS need to get out of the way of the lesson that our wayward needs to learn. We cannot protect them, we cannot soften the landing, we cannot keep providing the emotional needs that OP is not meeting.
I saw that you said you think you were successful with your wife because you were stern and not accomodating, but at the same time you showed affection (like kissing her forehead, covering her when she fell asleep on the couch etc..) when it was the right thing to do. I admire your abilities, and hope I can have the strength to do the same.
Laurie has had me experiment with light touch, similar to what you did with your W. My W did not recoil or back off, and was even willing to touch me, at least to give me a nice back rub. Not sure what Laurie will have me do next, but I would assume it is probably more physical affection. I just need to work up the courage to also come down hard on the financial aspect. That will allow me to exhibit my tender, soft, loving, affectionate side, and my strong confident and masculine side at the same time. From your sitch, and the other vets I mentioned earlier, that seems to be the effective combination when dealing with a WAW who is not "done" with you yet (when you seem to be plan B).
SM, thanks for this; it really touched me that you read all of that. I had a LOT of posts (as both Chocolateeyes and Puppy Dog Tails) !!! To know I've helped you in any way is humbling.
As I just stated in my previous post to you, I see a lot of my wife in your wife, and a lot of ME in YOU. Despite my hard-ass personae on here, I was always very much a classic fixer/pleaser/rescuer/"Mr. Nice Guy" in real life, and adding these new decisive and boundary-setting tools to my toolbelt did NOT come easy. They STILL don't, nearly 6 years post-bomb and post-reconciliation!
Trust me, you will FULLY need all of the "softer" skillset tools before this thing is over. You just have to keep most of them in your toolbelt for now. Not all, but most.
You can do this. And the good news? The new skills you pick up along the way will improve other areas of your life dramatically.
Oh one more thing I forgot to mention. Wife told me, and her mom, that she thought I should be giving her money because she still cleans the house and cooks and cleans. =)
Like paying for a maid service? If she mentions that again I am going to tell her that she does those things because she wants to and feels obligated to do for our marital home to be guy for D3. Like I provide a roof over W head, and food for her to eat, etc because she us the mother of my child. But you don't clean for affair money. How would you guys word this argument?
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
When I pay for her and give her money, I am told I am a doormat, and too accomodating.
Well yeah, because you ARE!!!!! Do you have some other spin on this? Because you are funding her visits to OM!! How can you perceive that as anything but being a doormat? There are times on these forums were "doormat" gets thrown around in a sitch where it's a little grey and unclear if that's actually the case. But in your case, I don't think you'll get any argument from anyone here, you are clearly being a doormat.
Don't argue. Just state that you will no longer finance her affair. The end. Nicely. Don't justify, you don't need to. It's the hardest part, but it has had the most positive effect in my sitch. Cause there is no fight. My H acts crazy, gets mad, yells, I don't engage. Then he comes back & apologizes. In the past, I try to "get" him to see, fight ensues...I'm crazy. Get it?
M: 9 yrs T: 13 yrs H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs Dbing 12/12 S 1/13 7/13 H moved back in basement. 8/13 #3 born 10/13 still cheating 10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
Oh one more thing I forgot to mention. Wife told me, and her mom, that she thought I should be giving her money because she still cleans the house and cooks and cleans. =)
Like paying for a maid service? If she mentions that again I am going to tell her that she does those things because she wants to and feels obligated to do for our marital home to be guy for D3. Like I provide a roof over W head, and food for her to eat, etc because she us the mother of my child. But you don't clean for affair money. How would you guys word this argument?
Well SM IMHO a stay at home mom is a job but you know and I know what she will do with any money you give her. I would tell her up front that any money you give her is for food bills etc. You know necessities not for going to see OM. I would suggest she is transparent with any money you choose to give i.e. you want receipts. This is a consequence of her seeing OM. under no circumstance do YOU want your hard earned money going to finance her A and I would be clear and upfront with her about it. Don't be mean and nasty when stating it be strong and firm. If she balks or has a fit or refuses to comply then don't give her any money.
I think she needs to know where you stand in regards to her A. If it were me having an A and my W said those things to me I would be thinking that she isn't going to tolerate the A for much longer.
M 44 W 43 S 23 S 15 INILWY 9/11 Divorce Mediation started 3/13 June 30 the day W is moving out
I don't think I have ever posted to you and I do have experience in affairs. I do suspect there might be OM in my sitch, although since we are S there is not much I can do except work on myself. I am done snooping as it does nothing for detachment. With that being said I think there is one common thing that most all of us share.
That one thing has to do with respect. I don't believe our spouses would cheat, lie, and leave us if they hadn't lost respect for us. I believe there are different levels of respect and they have lost enough to do the things they do. They lose that respect, probably for a lot of reasons. Some might not have anything to do with us, but more often than not it is because we have ignored, or may not even understood their needs.
When we married them we shared the deepest level of respect for each other. Over time it has waned to the point where we find ourselves here. I don't believe your w was any different. And now with what she is putting you through tells me she has very little respect for you. If you want to be the guy she married, the guy she respected enough to say "I do", the guy she had a child with, it is time to gain the respect back. Seriously placing some boundaries is a great place to start. And yes there is always a chance that she may leave and it will be over, and if you continue down this path there is a pretty good chance that OM will be replaced with another OM.
One question for you, do you respect yourself? Is what you are doing increasing that self-respect?
Me 37/W 32 S 5 D 4 ILYBNILWY 5/12 Sep 8/12 Starting to find myself 11/12 on
