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Hi AS,

Followed your sitch but not really commented and a big thx for your input on mine.

I know this sounds like a cliche but I guess it boils down to how much you love your W and how much you want to save your M (even if it seems lost). FWIW IMO I agree with cadet in that they all say its done..it is script.

But and it is a big but, the dating, retrauville etc all seems like pressure to me and she is backing right off to the point she is crawling in her shell again...when it looked like she had just started to come out. No one here can tell you whether or not to date but your W may see it as an ultimatum, i.e. if you are not working on the M I am going to do this, so make your mind up quick before an OW snaps me up. I don't think you have given it enough time to get to that stage yet...but I know you feel differently.

It still sounds like she is confused, does not know what she wants but her wall (that has show some cracks) has gone right back up. If it is MLC (I know you don't like labels) then this could be a much longer haul than the months you have given it.

Just my opinion AS and you know yourself and W better than we do. But reading your sitch it does not sound like she is done, it is whether you have any patience left to stick with it...because that is the motto here right? patience and more patience and just when you think you havent got any left......even more patience.

Take care AS and good luck with whatever you decide. Your dedication to these forums has been great and you have helped me through some tricky moments in my short time here.

^^ agree completely.

I just wanted to comment one more thing. I remember in your old threads you talked about how people around you were once WAS and they wanted to come back at some point but LBS were not interested. If I remember correctly one of them was your mom. I just wonder how many months/years later she realized she wanted to come back and your dad wasn't interested..

You always keep positive attitude but I'm sure it must be so unbelievably painful to hear your W repeatedly say she's done, but I hope your love for your W would help you wait for her little longer. Just my thoughts Hang in there!

Sounds like you misunderstand our current relationship, it would be classified more as casual friends. Last sex was labor day weekend (over 5 months ago), before she moved out. I would definitely not classify our R as best friends, more like neighbors. We don't see each other much, as I mentioned before we go to kid events together, but that's about it. Texting is extremely limited and only about the kids. On average I'd say maybe one text a day. She spends much more time with OM than me.



Actually I'm kind of surprised that people are offering condolences, LOL! I've tried to make it clear in my posts that I am extremely happy, I'm really in a great place mentally and physically! Is my marriage going to work out? Not likely, but my happiness is no longer tied to my marriage. I am no longer dependent on my W for anything, especially my happiness. So thank you and every one else for the thoughts, but I really am great!!



It is not at all discouraging, because I WILL be fine with or without my W, I'm beyond thinking I have just got to save my M or I will be miserable. My current thoughts are that I'm focusing on my own life with my kids and my friends. And with W too to some extent as she is the mother of our children and as such we will continue to have a relationship. And we do get along quite well as friends.



Not waiting for W. I actually quit waiting for her before she signed us up for RV, but when she signed us up I thought well maybe she was showing interest again. Now that she's made it clear the interest isn't there, I'm pretty much back where I was before and moving on. As for the new person, it's just dating, so there's not really any telling where it will go yet.



The only thing I've convinced myself of is I am ready to move on. I understand that some of you take issue with that, but it is MY decision. Don't ever forget that, it is each of our decisions on how much time to allow before moving on and it is not any of your places to criticize someone for moving on. As for your mind-reading on my motives for dating, "fireworks love"? Really? LOL!



What am I doing where, on these forums? I'm just sharing my story, that's all. Do you think that every thread on here should end with a saved marriage? As great as that would be, it rarely happens. The vast majority of posters here are heading for divorce. I'm trying to let people here know that they can have a happy, fulfilling life even if their spouse doesn't return. For the small number of people that save their marriages, good for them. But the ones who won't save their marriages are in much greater need of help than those who will save their marriages.



W signed us up for RV, not me. And yes, RV does not dovetail perfectly with DB'ing because it's all about talking about all that stuff that DB'ing tells us not to, so yeah, you could say it's pressure. There's a lot of pressure to reconcile for your faith. But that's the program, not anything I did. I would say RV is better for people who are ready for piecing, if both spouses are interested in reconciling then I think it would work quite well. It did work for us in that it helped us with communication skills, but not for saving the M.



She is confused because she knows it's not what the kids want and she feels bad about that. But she feels nothing for me. And that's not mind-reading, she's said that many times.



In the case of my mom is was 2 or 3 months. My step dad went through it as well, his W wanted to return after 2 years but he had long since moved on. A buddy of mine is sort of dating his W again after 2 years. They spent a year barely talking to each other.

Here's the thing, after BD I had a serious case of rose-colored glasses on. I remembered nothing but the good things about W. But as time has gone on I have found the real me again, the guy that was happy with himself and happy with life whether a woman was in it or not. And there were several women in those days. I think that was part of why they were attracted to me (and maybe W too), because I really didn't care whether they joined me in life or not. In finding myself I've also started questioning if I really do want to reconcile. To be honest, W has MANY faults of her own. SHE was the cold and distant one in the marriage. SHE is the one that never, ever reached out to me unless it was because she needed something. She had an excuse every time I tried to set up a date for just the two of us. My jaw nearly dropped in MC when she said the sex was great, because I thought it was mediocre. Hell, she even refused to go motorcycle riding with me because she was paranoid we'd both get killed and leave the kids with no parents. And let's not forget that she racked up 15k+ of debt secretly, then after we (I) paid it off she racked up another 80k+. And then there's the OM, that was going on before BD. She's a wonderful mother, there's no question of that. A wife? She's been a lousy wife for a long, long time. Why would I want that back? I don't. In fact, I don't think I've mentioned this before, but I thought about leaving a few times over the years myself. I would consider reconciling for the kids, but I absolutely would not reconcile back to the old marriage and I have no interest in waiting years to see if maybe there's some small chance she'll change her mind.



It really is not painful at all. It sure was after BD, it was terrible agony. But I've moved well past that. I've forgiven her for all the pain and I've forgiven myself for the part I played in our M failing. That's all behind me now and I am happier and more optimistic than I remember being in probably 10+ years I love my life now!

I can totally relate to a lot of that AS. The rose colored glasses really did hide a lot from me. I didn't see how toxic my M was. I think that's what a lot of people don't understand.

If I thought my H could change and be the man I need, I'd probably take him back in a heartbeat. However, going off the last 13 years, that's not going to happen. At least not for me, he may change for someone else. I doubt it would be long term though.

I realized how alone I've felt during my M. Are you totally shore, this is what you want though? I don't believe in the perfect marriage. There will always be bumps along the way.

AS, thanks for staying in the kitchen this time!

idk, it sounds like a lot of convincing going on to me. Convincing us that you are happier now, (if you are, great. No need to spend so much energy convincing us) That W was a poor spouse and will never change. That she is DONE and will not change her mind. That you were never "Head over Heals" in love with her. (hence the search for "Fireworks Love")

I agree with others that you have helped many on this board. Yes, you can certainly talk the talk, and have excellent writing skills.

I also agree with you that we all are in charge of when to call it quits. Nothing wrong with throwing in the towel, even if others may think it's a little (or a lot) too early.

Are you filing for D?

This part caught my attention. Maybe a year ago we(me and x) was laying in bed talking about what made us come together. She said "before I got to know you, you caught my attention b/c you could talk/flirt/etc with girls, but you never NEEDED them, you were fine on your own, independent"
I remember thinking "yeeeah..I remember that guy, where the h*ck did he go?!" LOL.

You seem to be in a good place AS. I haven't had any "feelings-talk" with my X, but it would sting to hear "done" over and over. Keep on keeping on AS!

AS, if she's done, why hasn't she filed? I understand you making the decision to move on, but all the stuff you have said about her never changing is just an educated guess at best. You don't know what she will do in the future.

Like the others here, I wonder if you are trying to convince yourself that you feel better and are fine with things. It really sounds to me like deep down you are angry. I would be too. I am.

You are right in stating that each person has to choose for themselves when to pull the plug when the marriage is on life support and there is very little if any sign of life. None of this is easy. Whichever way you go, I wish you the best.

Just wondering AS, do you think deep down that maybe you think if you once again don't need your W in your life and that if she knows that, she might fall for you again? That is a risky road to take, maybe she really is in her own crisis and just not ready yet.

I'm not looking to date and I can't talk for AS but I really did feel alone for a lot of my M. I'm not looking for "fire works love" in the futcure but mutual, respectful love, where both people take the time and make the effort.

Just remember "Never ignore someone who loves you, cares for you and misses you, one day you might wake up and realize you lost the moon, while chasing the stars."

As far as journaling goes, I haven't added anything to GAL but have been keeping at the old activities Still pumping iron on a regular schedule and get a lot of compliments for it in and out of the gym which keeps me motivated to keep doing it D16 is quite a little fashionista and we go shopping together, she helps me pick out trendy clothes. Ironically S10 got so jealous going with us on the shopping trips that now HE wants to shop for clothes as well, LOL! We just went yesterday and spent several hundred bucks on some fun new clothes for all of us I've started picking up my home gardening again because we've been getting some breaks in the weather. I haven't resumed riding Harleys with my new buddies yet because the weather has been too unpredictable to make plans. When there's a break in the weather I grab one of my smaller R/C planes or helis and fly in the backyard, so that hobby is still going. The R/C events will start picking up again in the spring. Habitat for Humanity just started a new house, I missed the kickoff last Saturday because I had the kids, but will go this weekend and will probably go every other week from now on (when I don't have the kids). I used to go every week before BD.

W and I rarely see each other, but when we do we get along great. Texting is very infrequent and strictly about the kids. Phone calls never happen.

We got a new client in at work mainly due to my past efforts with them, so that was great news



It does seem unlikely, but then again look at how much many of us changed at BD. It is possible for a person to change in substantial and remarkable ways. Mostly it's the LBS's that change like this, I've read a few cases of reformed WAS's changing too but it seems to be pretty rare.



What I want is for me, W and the kids to all be happy. For me being happy can happen with or without W. For W being happy requires life without me. For the kids being happy requires us to reconcile (although with time they will recover from D). So unfortunately there's no perfect scenario here, there's only moving on as best we can.



My posts here represent a teeny tiny fraction of who I am. None of us here really know each other. We don't know what we all look like, what our personalities are like, etc. All we have are these words typed out on the forum, it's not much to go by. Maybe 1/1000th (or probably less) of the actual person. So I try to describe as best I can what I'm thinking/ feeling, because you can't see it. If you think I'm trying to "convince" you, well yes, of course that's what I'm doing. Because how else do you know? You can't see me and talk to me, so you have no idea. So I have to tell you here. But I'm not trying to convince myself, I'm already there. I'm just trying to convey where I am to all of you.



I'm not searching for any kind of love right now. I just like female companionship and have gone without it for many months, so I'm dating to have that again.



W and I were going to discuss that last weekend but didn't get a chance. We've already discussed the terms quite a bit and are both committed to making it as smooth and easy as possible. We'll do it together, it won't be a case of one of us dropping a D bomb on the other.



Hahaha! Frankly I forgot that guy, it had been over 20 years. It wasn't until W left and I started detaching and GAL'ing that I started feeling like "that guy" and remembering what "his" life was like so many years ago. Of course I can't ever fully be that person again because I am a father now and wasn't then, but I can channel a lot of the good things about "him" and his independence



Thanks bro



My W is a classic procrastinator. Why do today what can be put off to tomorrow or the next day or the next



You're absolutely right. But the odds are definitely against her changing her mind. It's been just shy of 8 months since BD and she is as firmly entrenched in her position now as she was 8 months ago. At least she says she is, and I believe her. A lot of people here think I should wait longer, but how long is long enough? A day? A week? A month? A year? a decade? The answer is this- it is each LBS's decision as to how long is enough. And I've decided 8 months is enough.



I am not even remotely angry. I love my wife, but I've fallen out of love with her. We love each other on some levels and not on others. That's just where we are now. It's no one's fault. In grief recovery people often do cycle through many emotions including anger, but I never did feel anger towards W. I was angry at myself for a while for thinking I caused all this, but once I forgave W and forgave myself I never felt anger again.



Thank you!



No. Believe me, I thought about that one long and hard. But no, that's not why I'm moving on nor do I think there's a chance she's fall for me again.



I agree, no one should move on unless they are doing it for themselves. It cannot be a "strategy" to bring the WAS back.

Wow, AS, I am in awe that you have moved on in 8 months. Our BDs were in the same month and I am just now starting to "move" at all. I know our sitch's are different in a lot of ways, but the timeframe is similar.

I hope to be in your place some time in the not so distant future, but have a feeling it will take me A LOT longer. You have definitely done a lot more proactively to move on/GAL. I am just beginning.

Let us know how you are doing and check in so we can believe it is possible for ourselves too, when we are ready.