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hey hiya -

well- welcome to the land of oz girls -

wow - i cannot begin to fathom your h and life with him and what is going on IN HIS head. (heart- whatever) the battle with God thing is a real wierd one. i have no ideas on that- you are correct i think to keep yourself not involved... i'm lost in admiration for your stamina and clear head



interesting outlook here- i've been finding myself think ing a variation of it for past couple months. with this last episode of my mom's hospitalization and sister issues - and looking at H - you know, i'm NOT GOING BACK either.

i do not think i deserve it. i may be a person with my own wacky issues - but i'm not mean or cruel or unkind. my h is somewhat like my mom- they seem to think anyone who is "reliable" and "they can count on" is someone also to wipe their feet on. i do not know what signals that response in a person - it's the old:

"bites the hand that feeds them and licks the boot that kicks them" routine. i can't fathom- don't even want to- don't even care what motivates them or what they "feel" on this count- if it means hurting me or abusing me (even verbally) i'm out.

no kidding-



my h's old aunt says i'm "his rock" - i'd say, she'd say you're his "rock". what the heck exactly that means is up for grabs. WHY they get to have a "rock" to know is there to save them and be there for them - in life, ultimately - and we don't - again, wtf???

the offer to keep you sexually satisifed - again, wtf??? i can see why you're confused to the point and chucking the tolerance. how in the world could you ever untangle the mess going on in his head over this all. to me - it seems he's determined to have you in his life and keep you around as the person he can "let loose" on. i've been told this a million times about my mother (it doesn't really help) that she's "sure of me" and that she "knows i won't leave her or totally ditch her" - so she's most awful to me. because i'm the one person in theuniverse she feels free to - (and - get this- that i should be flattered?!!!).

i say sick and sicker - that i should view it as anything other than what it is- dumping crap on someone you see as willing to take it.

i'm working on the not taking it thing myself. it's a wierd thing- THE LINE - and drawing it in the sand. i'm trying. i've walked out a few times- haven't hung up on anyone because i don't like it- but am considering it if i need to.

somehow - someway- i'm taking a step back from alllll my relationships and making a stand for "not deserving" alot of what i'm getting lately.

everyone can go jump in the lake - somehow - someway your h is hanging on to you like grim death. saying he wants you to kick him out (he can't bring himself to do it- like me- ) to me that means there;s something big and he's banking on it being there "at the end of the day". just humble ole me-

i can't say same for my h - i'm too involved and too tied up in the outcome - i don't know what the heck he's doing or thinks he's doing- today i don't even care what the heck he thinks or feels.

i'm really really tired - need to just enjoy being here away from sitch up north and ignore the rest.

i do find myself waiting for him to drop some bomb on my head about seeing ow or leaving here so he can- i dread it- trying to keep the demons at bay and not go there.

he just hugged me when left for tennis - first time in a bazillion yers- wtf??? can he not see how psycho he is? apparently not. i'm cool- i'm with you- nothing's changed.

oh well- going to have a pleasant day or die trying. my toe is about three times the size of the other foot- hurts less tho, so fingers crossed that it's not broken / cripes - last time i go walking around in dark. whole damn house can fall down- i do not care these-a-days. that's a good thing - rite?

Hey Nero, You have to start a thread so I can fill it up with my wisdom, lol! It was good to hear from you, things are weird here. Not-H was actually H this morning for about a 1/2 hour, it was really strange like a coming home for those moments.

He talked to me about falling at work and how it made him feel mentally as well as physically vulnerable. When security came he told them- I don't need you, my wife knows how to handle all of my paper work Oh, I'm his wife now.

Then he went on about the g-baby on the way and how that is making him feel like life had gone on while he wasn't looking, dah you stupid sh!t head, and how were not prepared and we can't have a house of unsettled issue's between us. WTF??

He went on about his coat and asked me if he should use it...two days ago it was - your not my mother! Then he asked me to look at his back for damage and if I would call the doctor, and what pills should he take, omg!

It was like for those minutes he was tired of being alone. He couldn't even make coffee, dropped the cream, and called me over to help please. I made a comment that I was always the one who picked up his slack and vise versa like all good couples. He says to me - what slack do you have, none.

Ok, I'm glad he went to a side job during the day because that was all to weird to fast. I know tom. will offer no change and it will be MLC as usual, but I have to say even my D19 saw a glimpse of her F today.

So your alien hugged you? Did it feel weird like an awkwardness you couldn't imaging? Mine kissed my cheek again yesterday morning.

I think the offer to keep me "satisfied" may have been a momentary effort to keep me from chucking the M (as he did) because he wants to keep me honest. After all we can only have one a$$ in the family at a time. Who knows!

If your H drops a bomb like he's going to be w/ow I don't know what I would do, but maybe you should at least be alert. I don't know if I would be able to refrain from saying something. But, like they say here if you do than he goes there feeling justified because you just gave him that.

When all else fails, I give the wide eye stare....and I have big eyes!

Good luck...enjoy your visit...I envy the weather my toes are cold. I hate winter without a warm body around me, gonna have to get me one of those if next winter brings the same ole sh!t.

hey hiya -



wtf in deed. nice if even for one brief moment in time he was "back" and functioning somewhat normall. i'd give quite alot for one word of "normal" conversation that had some meaning and thought in it- instead of just jokey crappola.




so- i've thought about that very thing many times. these jerks go out with ow to be able to be a big big cheese to someone needy- and they need all the gratification of "fixing" tings for some loser going down- YET - they picked us because of our strength of character- seem now to hold it against us- my own h is critical of any show of "needieness" in me- yet he's apparently entranced by his ow's neediness. wtf - your guy too- do you think it's same with him??? as much as he liked your strength- why the heck do they need to go find someone who neeeeeeeeds them. it makes me nuts. i don't see myself laying on a couch asking him for help- not me. but then- ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BECOME NOT-US TO GET ALONG WITH AND ENCHANT NOT-THEM??? could we even if we tried- i don't think so- they would be grossed out i think. i could be wrong- i guess i usually am (come to find out) w/men anyway.



oh crap- i've been thinking this same thing. biting my tongue is making me nuts. i think the same thing- i swear i don't know if i can do it or not. i saw a receipt on tab le yesterday in front kind of where i sit- it was for a card from target. all i can think is valentine for his ow- his one true love, blah blah gag gag gag..... that little thing bums me alot. was it you in one post saying your h didn't get cards for you- and something abouty a card for ow? someone did- it struck a cord for sure.

my h used to give me lovely cards - the things he couldn't say himself without having a stroke (uh hem image i guess, you know!). anyway- i managed to NOT say anything ratty or sarcastic about itallllll lyesterday. this morning it's gone- jerk- jerk jerk jerk jeark jerk jerk - WHO ME_ NO, I DON'T have feelings, i don't have a brain, i don't feel pain, i don't have a life (well, true enough sometimes) etc.

ONLY HIM- HE'S the sensitive guy with feelings,e tc. (NOT)

I'M OUTTA HERE- BACK LATER XXOO not so rosey here today i'm afraid- working on it tho

hiya again-

h left for tennis- here's me running here - ta da...

soooo- of all things- i was sitting at table trying to balance one of my gazillion check books (don't even ask) and something he said made me just say rite out- so, are you acting all wierd because you've got "travel plans" and don't have the courage to just sayit rite out? he said no- and wasn't i a bit dramatic guaging his "wierdness".

his usual old "thing" - make it about me "watching the r too much and too constantly" - which, honextly i don't really do.

if i notice something off kilter- i say so- if i don't - i go along and don't. I probably shouldn't have said anything- it just was the rite opening and i did. anyway- glad he doesn't have plans- it really is a hard thing to cope with. i managed last time to not talk- but even "not talking" is a sign to him that i'm acting differently-

this business of knowing each other really wel - or thinking we do more likely- is stinko.

oh well- then after a few exchanges ic an't remember- neutral in tone- nothing heavy or icky- he said soemthing that promted me to comment on the stupid receipt for a card that's been sitting in my face - his valentine for his true love.

he said "fag, you ahve a birthday in a couple days! it's that). i had to say in my own defense that i'm not likely to head for pleasant explanations since i feel like i'm an outs ider in a house i've thought of as my "home" for 35 or so years. it's all weird- excuuuuuuse me if i'm a bit defensive.

ended lightly- this moment i just don't care . long logn talk with sister #3 about sister #4 and HER issues - which i also just don't care about at this moment.

AAANY WAY- hope your day is going well. i wonder about this flipping and flopping allover the place they're doing or do. it's sooooo unjust to not just pick something and go with it. it's sooooooo USING us like mad becasue we understand and tolerate and "stand" and they get to gratify every stupid whim & fancy regrdless of who they're blamming into the ground.

i keep thinking lately of a stupid stupid mental attitude i had in my first job for a young lawyer. a real jerk and not that great of a lawy3er- i did everything- waaay more than i could or should have been doing. he was such a putz- anyway- my usual attitude was "ill show him- i can do this all and then some" and all about "proving myself" i guess. THEN ONE MORNING - it occurred to me, why was i killing myself to prove what to who? to him (a jackass??? and not that greatof pay anyway???) it shifted everythign. i quit -

why in the world would i continue to be overworked, underpaid and not appreciated to boot. i find myself wondering if i'm doing the same thing here. this business of i can tolerate this and that and give him every last single "chance" -

COULD IT BE i'm just trying to Prove something to someone that doesn't give a darn anyway? using me for alllll whatever he's getting - maybe even just the infantile gratification of me enduring his sh_tfest? oh man- treasonous thoughts.


BACK TO YOU.- your H - views you as his wife - WELL THANKS GUY- YOU ARE..... ALWAYS HAVE BEEN - if he wasn't such a putz himself you always would be. Trudi is rite- you're his rock- but do these guys necessarily deserve rocks in their life?

guys like us (rocks) deserve rocks - guys like them (shifting sand) deserve just that. BUT they're clever-er than us- they pick us, whereas we pick them.????

nopt even going there- so you are sounding a bit empowered with one of your recent posts saying you are coming to terms with life without h and he'd need to be an even better h before that changes. is this truly your bottom line these days? what exactly would heneed to change and never go back on?

i'm still struggling with my addiction and not sure of what my bottom line is. i know I WILL NOT go back to walking on eggs to avoid his anger- my gut turns rite off - i can be silent and go away from it becasue i'm not going to participate. it's crazy and i am undeserving - wonder if he GETS that lately?

i can't think what else- the ow thing will have to be over before he and i can fix anything. i'm waiting and biding my time (JUST) - I'M Hanging by a thread most days.

i wonder ifhe knows that? i wonder if they know anything of what is going on with us? i wonder if our attitude shifts are clearly apparent to them as they are to us? i'm assuming they know us somewhat better than the average civilian?

do you think your "changes" of mind and heart are apparent to your not-h? do you think this is what has inspired his latest foray into old-h-ness? i hope to God your h is returning from his abyss... wouldn't it be nice if a miracle had occurred.

yeah- another addiction i have - this darn upbeat pollyanna junk- need to get a handle on the optimism.

my h- i have been watching tv and seeing allll the valentine ads and wanting to cry becasue i am so pissed off and missing what i had - love , etc. it's nice that i had it for a long long tiome- it's hard as heck to know EXACTLY what i'm missing and whose got it now. wah wah wah.

my 4th sister pointed out this moring how nice for me to have had a "rock" in my life for such a long long time. i am grateful- it still stinks. she feels she's never had it - ever. sad that. the good news about sister 5 being a total jerk- 4 has alwasy had a rocky r with mom- she's now being appreciated somewhat and it is a bit better than ever. my mother is (i hope) realizing she's there and she can be counted on- and that is something HUGE in life. i believe 4 will help her have a life she wants - i believe 5 is pretty sure she knwos what is best for everyone in universe and she will give mom the life she thiniks she needs. oh man-

anyway- i'm ranbling- i'm glad to hear you're hanging in there and i'm interested in teh wierd twists & turns your not-h and then real-h is taking- it's sure crazy. i feel nuts sometimes too- last nite he watched tv by self in tv room til sleeptime. nite before he came in and watched with me and has been doing that more and more in bedroom. wtf? i assume his level of guilt keeps him distant or not.

he's such a jerk- ifhe'd just give up- we live together and quit this crap of apartness he'd remember how fun it was. (maybe) - maybe mwd is rite and he's got to go thru this in his own time in his own way- your h too- it stinks for us.

i hate being philosophical. that stinks too. hey- i sure am saying everythign stinks about everything today aren't I.

i wish my stupid h would get his stupid ow in perspective and realize he didn't "go with her" 25 years ago because she's a redneck jerk-

okay- end of tiraid - gotta do that sut5pid checkbook.

xxoo and thanks for listening and thanks for sharing- i'm here with ya- for better or worse dearie - keep the faith.

My h just laid some crap on my that I am reling from. He said he doesn't want to loose me, he doesn't want me out of his life, I have many great attributes he would miss. He would miss my cooking! Major wtf?

He asked if being friends with ea had to mean he looses me, I said what do you think, he said I already know, I said if he was still struggling with life,with no ea, I would be more willing to try.

He said he has to see this journey through, but he's getting sick of her. Then he said maybe we can all be friends...I said I would rather shoot her in the face with my air soft gun. I was so angry it just came out!

He said he doesn't want me to go in that angry direction...too late! He said he is trying to journey home and rediscover some loyalty, adding that since he never left and continued working for the family, and is not doing "wrong", he never 100 percent left his loyalty.

Then he said he will never ask me for my forgiveness, it's not his nature, he still needs to work off of the negativity. He asked me if his presence here is still of any importance?

We talked about my loneliness...he wants me to be content with the love of family and God. I said I don't have a problem attracting guys...he said no, you wouldn't, but why? I said nice for you to say you have a secret life of friends and ea.

He said yea, but you don't follow my route....these are people of no value, they are empty, they are making me sick and I'm wondering what am i doing, I don't even know what journey I'm on any more and I've accomplished nothing. He said he just can't go back to being a good guy...but then wondered what he's doing bad!

He even said his being bad spew and then said I don't know...how bad am I really, not even the cops thinks so....when I'm caught with a crowd of losers. As soon as I start talking they see I'm not like them, I don't come off ghetto or uneducated so they say your just a nice guy why are you with them!

I was heart broken to hear my 52yr old h is getting patted down by the police in the streets of Chicago. Then he says he needs to come to the peace and beauty, and warmth of home and go back to some sense of himself.

It sounds like he wants to keep me on hold...don't go and do anything or gal, that's my way, reserved for me! You stay we're I can find you when I feel like it, but don't put hopes in that. I don't not want you...I just don't want you to want me.

When he said were here just surviving I said no, I'm going to move on, life will not stand still for you and realize that includes me. You are not giving me anything to hold on to....your are addicted to ea' s abuse. He thought about that...gave it some possible truth.

He said I'm just to tired lately, it this my life now. I said it doesn't have to be, I think your have low testosterone levels. He was very intrigued and listened about his anger, strength, muscle loss, ect. He then said, well loosing the house we were building was a trigger for me, so what did that manifested out of.

I am at a consequence be damned point so I told him, MLC! He asked if I researched it cause I'm so smart and complimented a few things about me. I said of course, I didn't watch the man I L go through something without learning as much as I could. I told him I learned how to react and he said I do very well.

I told him how he is text book, like he is reading a script, how his words were right on cue. He said so am I stuck like this cause I think I'm ruining S21's life. He seems to need/want his dad and I take blame for him not having me around.

All I said was medically you need a checkup, testing and to stop smoking. It's up to the doctors to regulate your chemicals so you may start to feel better. The other stuff will follow as your ready, I'm not pushing you either way!

He said he is so filled with guilt, his stomach is turning as we speak, it does affect him and that's when he has to turn off his emotions. Feel nothing for me, let the niceness stay to the side.

Oh, woo is me....I'm sick from this merry-go-round!

Dawn,
He laid a lot on you and you had your say about the checkup, etc. Now you will need to step back and see if he "heard" what you said. Make some plans for yourself today and get out there and do something, even if it is just a walk or picking up a coffee.

oh gosh dawn-

you poor kid.



that sure was alot for him to say- and it was okay i'd think for you to have your say as well. i don't think i'm ever going to "tip my hand" and tell h anything about what i read or think or hismlc or anyting. i cannot imagine that it wouldn't come back to bit me on the butt. Anyway-

so- i know i always say it- and i know it's awful for you to hear- but it's got to be better than constant and continued silence forever and ever til you just die from lack of words.

(uh hem) that would be me. if this man talked bout one stinking feeling he had i'd faint- and that is no lie.

i'm afraid i'm so sick of trying to read between thelines- i don't even care what is going on in there - between them. either spell it out- or don't expectm e to guess any more. i'm tired to death of that-

SOOOO- I'M SAYIN, from my perspective - if he can be honest about how much he admires you (yay) and the good things about you (which i never ever hear except very rarely something non-committal like you lost weight & it looks good. never anything like what he feels in there or feels about me, NOTHING AT ALL.

MAYBE YOUR h is trying to establish contct and keep it- maybe it is keeping you in cold storage til he decides- maybe mine too- BUT - it's always been that to one extent or another hasn't it? imean- that seems to be a giant part of mlc- abusing the other guy and seeing if they leave you screaming or stay the course.

im not sure even why most of the time- our gut tells us to give it another shot, or hang in there for another day. i guess we're responding to o ur gut & heart like they're responding to their (what? brain would be too much to ask- gut? i honestly don't know. i know what i think my h is responding to - his - uh hem - you kn ow...

anyway- i'm glad your guy talks - i can't think anything heartfelt is bad to be putting out there- if it's sincere non-spew stuff -

i can see why you're tired- it's mentally exhausting to juggle this crap and try and figure and figure til you explode.

please do not explode today- chill and coddle you. just because. good luck deciphering whatevertheheck this all means - or doesn't mean. maybe put it rite out of your mind and leave the figuring to him.

sorry if that's disjointed and not too "wise" - good luck and see ya later.

xxoo - i would like to hear one time tht he doesn't want to lose me or want me out of his life. so far- he doesn't go or kick me out - but he doesn't say he would feel awful if i weren't here. last i heard - many many months ago "he cares a great deal" - geeeez buddy, can you f'ing spare it????

ohj well - as usual i'm here praying you get a miracle any minute now- let me go click my heels dorothy and see where i end up-

Yea, I stayed up a while going over some of the thing he said and reading my new book about healing even the most desperate of marriages. It's a good read about the 5 languages of L, and how to be kind and generous even if you don't L your S, it will bring them closer to you, and maybe even make them reach out.

And, I did just as you said, went out for coffee, and bought some delicious pastries for the family that even H enjoyed quietly when I returned. I kept it light, made his lunch (I will always be helpful to him when it comes to work) and said see ya later, he returned my goodness with a sink full of clean dishes, a swept floor, and kiss on the cheek

I keep thinking alien...mothership...deep down in the darkness, somewhere is the truth....we may never know!

you're a good person.

now i feel badly about my (just a few min.ago) rant of sorts.

i agree and i'm still being nice- i'm still confused- when he askes what's up with ____ (some phone call i just had) do i chat and be nice & share? or do i just say "nothin" and walk out.

hard to draw the lines. if he's being pleasant- i participate rite? because it's who i am - nice ole guy?

OR - do i not. you're way better at this maybe - seeing the lines. this business of being where we were soooo happy sooo long- makes it feel like old times smetimes - i have to fight to remember it's not- and never will be.

oph well- good on ya for your evenhandedness and caring.

i'm trying- will continue. so, i'm assuming today as usual our light is still shining out there - rite???

beam me up scotty

dawn, thanks for stopping by and commenting on my thread.

I've been trying to keep up with your sitch too and I'm glad that your h is at least saying that he wants to try.

It's so frustrating when they just can't stay away from an ea, especially when even they can admit it's not a good place for them to be. I hope that he can be strong enough to get rid of her and choose you.