25, if you have followed to my new thread and I just want to clarify one important point before we move on to me.
My W did not say that it is worth the risk to try out OM. Well not in those exact words anyway.
She actually said: "There is this guy and he seems wonderful. And there is you who is wondeful to me. But if I don't try this guy I will never be able to be happy in this marriage because I will always worry about what if. But if I try it and it doesn't work out, then think of how wonderful our marriage could be?"
I call BS on this^. How would it be ANY better after her affair flames out? (Yes the marriage could be better, but not because of the affair) It's clear she sees NO risk to this, for HER. Only you bear the risk -- of losing her. She doesn't lose you in her equation. NOTICE THAT....
After their first proper encounter with the comfort of knowing that I know now and it is not "cheating" in her mind, this is when it turned to a PA. That is when she went to see him then messaged me that she will not be coming home tonight and that she will see me in the morning.
I called her immediately and she was angry and screaming and shouting completely out of character. She said it is over and if I want to pack up all her stuff and put outside for her then do it"
I talked her into coming home that night. She came home and sat on the couch and said ok I am here now. She was somewhat calm but the severity of the situation was evident on her face.
I told her that we should try to go to counselling and try to fix our marriage and that we owed it to each other, and most of all to our D3 who will not have a chance at a normal life unless we try.
She said "OM makes me feel incredible. I want 6 months to try it out but I can't ask you for that because you deserve better than that. You are a wonderful person. So I think we should separate. in fact she IS "asking" you for 6 months or more, to "try it out" but isn't admitting it. She's threatening YOU by saying "give me what I want or I leave..." and she knows you won't call her on it. And you say that often enough, we all know it too.
So don't think she's not "trying it out" b/c that is exactly what she is doing. Except, she's not "asking"...
OM makes me feel so good and I don;t know how I can give that up. I would have to fall in love with you all over again and I don't know how to do that. Then she busrt into uncontrollable crying.
I made a silly remark that she has to be open to falling in love with me again, and then I will do the rest. Maybe it is not so silling because after all that is what we are all trying to do here right? It seems typical of affair type stuff. She knows what is the right thing to do which is why she hasn't told her family yet. She has a huge family of about 9 aunts and uncles, 18 with their spouses, and something like 20 cousins. None of them know yet, and I suspect they wont know until she confirms it in her mind that this is what she wants.Her father also does not know. Her mother knows but only because I called her for help that first night and she helped convince my W to come home and not stay the night.
more useless "analysis" of yours..you use it to explain and justify her choices. Why do you do that? We aren't married to her. You are.
She has not mentioned divorce again since that day on the phone during her anger fit. And She won't mention it b/c she does not need it now. OM only offers her physical intimacy for now.
And she gets the rest from you and d. IF OM wants more or if "They" want more, THEN She'll file...not before.
No need to...and no need to end or change things b/c you are, apparently, letting her do this. Why would she not believe that? She continues to be very nice to me, cooking, cleaning, asking me how my day went, asking me if I slept well etc..
She has not touched me, but I see baby steps. The first few weeks she was mainting a foot radius around her all the time. Lately i can come near here and she does not move away like I have a contagious disease. and is this^^ enough for you?
We both went dark on each other for the first few weeks, but then I noticed she began to pursue. She pidked up the texting, first to tell me something about D3 as an excuse, but then how is your day, and what would you like for dinner questions.
25 I have one UPDATE from today that I would like you to comment on since we are suspecting she wants to keep me as a back up plan.
I left for work and then after I got in my car I realized I had forgotten my VITAMINS that I need to take to help with sex drive.
I went back into the house and she was standing right where the vitamins are. I said "I forgot my vitamins that I need for today".
As she moved away to give me room, she said "How are those working out for you?". And she seemed genuinely interested.
Now this is the second time she has mentioned my vitamins. The first time she asked me if I was remembering to take them. Is this looking back? or too early?
She may test you out. If I were you, I'd take whatever medication (yes, for ED) I needed to, to KNOW I'd be "ON" for the event. If you have a medical reason not to, then ignore me.
I say this b/c I wonder if your anxiety might prevent you from feeling comfortable, or instead as if you are in a competition, and then you might freak yourself out and blow it.
IS that a possibility? IF so, consider my suggestion.
Also, what should be my response to this? I was caught off guard and said "Yes they seem to work great. I have much more energy and I am more alert". But I didn't mention that along with the anti depressant (wellbutrin which is NSSRI not SSRI so it actually helps with Sex Drive) I am feeling much more horny now.
"Yes W, thanks for asking. They ARE ALL working great. You don't know what you're missing..."
This might be too much information but I have spontaneous erections now, especially when I first wake up which is something that hasn't happened in years! She used to love it when I don't even wake her up but just attack her in her sleep first thing in the morning ready to go crazy! Then l would shower and get dressed and leave for work. She would text me later saying "Wow that was a wonderful way to start the day". The last few years i have not had that urge in the morning. It seems to be coming back now. But how can I tell her? You don't "tell" her that. You either let it show or you stay vague and "content" with the OLD YOU returning...and at some point you're going to need her to know you won't go with UNMET needs forever either. After all, you deserve intimacy too...
This issue i think is harder to deal with than some of the other issues I have seen on this board. Most people have a spouse who left because they were angry, or inconsiderate, or never spent time with them, or is a drunk, or something that can easily be displayed once fixed. some leave for purely sexual issues. See some in the SSM forum for that. IF sex is missing AND something else big, the marriage usually ends for good.
In our marriage I can say we had none of the above. We are best friends, maybe you WERE...but best friends don't do this SM...they just don't.
did EVERYTHING together, travelled, had fun, told each other secrets that no one else knew, We always considered each others feelings and opinions. We are great parents and we share in that responsibility.
We shared in waking up in the middle of the night to change diapers and feed our new born, I changed poopy diapers, i burped her, i bathed her, and I took care of the baby and the house while my W recouped from the birth. i was also in the birthing room, holding one leg! So I take part 100% in my wifes and dauighter's life and I know that was very attractive for my W.
I dropped the ball on the sex part. She said when it was the other way around when we were younger, I atleast took care of you. I was willing to "take care of her" anytime she wanted, but when I didn't follow up with actual sex she would pout and make me feel bad...not like what I did years ago. hey-SHE didn't feel taken care of, so whatever it means, the details are not important TO ME. That's all minutiae...what matters is that if you reconcile, you stop arguing with her feelings about sex. Understand her needs and do your best to meet them. Okay?
So the dilemna from the start of my sitch.....
HOW DO YOU MAKE SOMEONE SEE THAT YOU HAVE FIXED OR ARE FIXING YOUR SEX DRIVE ISSUE WHEN YOU CANT PRACTICE WITH THEM. Does she need to see me bang lots of women? =) she needs to FEAR that you will or can.
OK so now thats out of the way. Seriously. Time to work on me. So next post is what 25yearsmlc asked me to write about.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
AnotherStander yes you are absolutely right! GAL can be anything you enjoy doing. I guess I meant more like things to do to meet people. I need to have friends, some to call me.
I saw you posting a lot of good suggestions to people. Do you know of anyone else in my sitch where these is an OM but W doesn't bring up divorce or moving out anymore?
There was no OM in your sitch right?
I volunteered at a Women's shelter. Try a "Big Brother Group" or Boy Scouts. You will meet new people. I coached a softball team. I auditioned for community theater and did stand up comedy. I met new interesting fun people.
I joined a writer's group. I volunteered at my kids's schools and met other parents. Joined a group at Church.
I took flying lessons, and a class in Conversational French, and Italian cooking. I learned how to cross country ski, hunt for big game and deep sea fish.
I got in great shape and used a tanning booth in the winter. I looked good. I saw a therapist at times too.
I joined an Officer's Wive's Club for the first time in 17 years of active duty service. And thank God I did, b/c I made 2 life long friends there. They saved my life while living in Alaska's interior.
SM, I did ALL THIS^^^-- WHILE living in the interior of Alaska, mostly in the winter. And we had a newborn/toddler, younger than yours.
Except for flying lessons, nothing I did cost much at all. And I made new, interesting friends at each place.
For you to have "no friends" is co-dependent of you. I notice your wife has some.
Don't make excuses anymore. There are TONS of things for you to do. Get out of your comfort zone and it will expand... WE hammer the GAL here, b/c we know it works.
So, GAL
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25 once again your insight is extremely valuable. It is good to get a woman's perspective, especially one as knowledgeable (and as blunt, in a helpful way) as you.
Have some follow questions/comments:
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I call BS on this^. How would it be ANY better after her affair flames out? (Yes the marriage could be better, but not because of the affair) It's clear she sees NO risk to this, for HER. Only you bear the risk -- of losing her. She doesn't lose you in her equation. NOTICE THAT....
You are right on this point. Definitely. This is the only reason why i have any hope at all in this situation. I feel like she really is undecided. She admitted to me that she thinks if we had gone to counseling just a few weeks before, she would probably be really happy by now because counselor would have told me to pay attention to her needs. But she says unfortunately OM popped up at a bad time and now she HAS to try this.
Frankly i know it is not helping the respect factor and even in the event of R there would be issues with that. I can't remember if it was you that said this, but someone told me my issue would be trust and hers would be respect.
Advina once told me she thought she likes me because i think highly of myself. And I think I do. I am from "good stock" if you will. While that may not have helped me keep my wife satisfied, I think she knows we could fix this and we really would have an awesome marriage. The problem is OM has confused her completely because now she has butterflies and all the stuff that comes with a new relationship.
So my confidence in myself says she will be back. The problem is, as her mother told her, will I be available when she is done with this loser? She is betting on yes at this point. Probably because she knows I have no friends and I'm not very social, and really my family was everything to me. Never wanted to spend any time with anyone else except her and my D3.
So while she is here in the house and co parenting, I need to make it seem like I might be in a position to move on. That is why I act like nothing is wrong around here. It is tough but honestly it is getting easier. I think because again I think highly of myself =). I have faults like everyone does, but she knows I take good care of her in all other aspects. I need to work on the other complaints she had and I'm doing quite well at taking care of DIY things around the house, and finishing projects I started.
Also, looking sharp now and always freshly shaven. I shave my head because I don't have that much hair left. Everyone keeps mentioning changing the way you cut your hair but that isn't an option. She thinks a shaved head is sexy anyone so no biggie. I just shave it closed now so it looks nice and clean.
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She may test you out. If I were you, I'd take whatever medication (yes, for ED) I needed to, to KNOW I'd be "ON" for the event. If you have a medical reason not to, then ignore me.
I say this b/c I wonder if your anxiety might prevent you from feeling comfortable, or instead as if you are in a competition, and then you might freak yourself out and blow it.
IS that a possibility? IF so, consider my suggestion.
Do you mean she might make a sexual move sometime and see if I can perform well? I think you are right that might freak me out a little. When you are up against someone knew isn't that a little hard to beat? I mean if I had some new chick I was banging I think it would probably be awesome even if she sucked in bed. We have been together for 14 years, and faithful, so anything warm may feel better temporarily right?
So what do I do? Keep a viagra handy? Hold on I need to go to the bathroom real quick. lol
Anyone tried those gas station pills they sell?
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"Yes W, thanks for asking. They ARE ALL working great. You don't know what you're missing..."
You don't think that is pursuing? Its like asking her to try it isn't it? The rules are so confusing sometimes!
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Does she need to see me bang lots of women? =)
she needs to FEAR that you will or can.
There is something interesting with this point. The first week after BD I was pursuing heavily as everyone does at first.
After reading DR I pulled back immediately and started acting like I really don't care what she does. She began to warm up to me.
The point related to your comment is that I guess she told her girlfriends I was acting like everything was fine and of course that is a little odd. So she told me "My girlfriends think you must be dating someone, but I told them I really don't think so". So she does think its probably not possible.
I told her I was taking the time to find myself, and find out how i had changed during our marriage and I was not ready for a relationship until I am done redicovering myself.
Should I have said yes there is someone hopeful? It seemed to early and honestly I was a little insulted. Her friends know, and know my family, and know how loyal everyone in my family is. Did they really think I was already moved on after being an LBS for 2 or 3 weeks? Or did she make that all up?
I need to figure out how to make her feel unstable about me. Like you are saying, she needs to feel that it is possible she could lose me. Any suggestions? Is being mysterious enough or do I really need to have some girl friends? In a platonic way of course. I don't agree with opposite sex friendships in a marriage because it spells trouble. And generally she went along with me, until this guy came on board.
You are only as faithful as your options. I need to make her feel I have options. Or is just looking sharp and attractive enough?
This is a real mind game now. Reminds me of a game of chicken.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
Of topic question. Is there a way to know when someone responds to your post? i just found a thread I had commented on a long time ago and the thread owner has asked me a follow up question. I had no idea of the question. how do you all find out when I reply to your posts on my thread?
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
So what do I do? If I pressure her now without finishing my 180s it's a done deal. Everything I know says it's not time for that yet.
At some point I will need to gain some respect, by respectfully asking her to follow through with what she promised. Moving out and doing her own thing.
Then go dark as much as possible with a D3.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
I don't know that you have such a high regard for yourself. Your self esteem sounds pretty low to me. For one thing, meeting new people is a lot easier when you offer something and are not just 'needing friends" which is the same in a r. And you would not have been content for a whole life time with only one friend. That's codependent. I said it before and I stand by that.
Get that old confidence back, whatever it takes. No, I don't think it comes from business success.
It comes from within. OTherwise every CEO or investor like Trump would lose all their confidence when things go badly. I know Trump declared bankruptcy.
You think HE lost HIS confidence? I don't.
Once you're "back" you can think straight.
And as I said, YES you need to make sure IF the chance for ML comes up and IF YOU are interested,
be ready. OF course, you might want HER to take an STD test first, so you don't catch something from her. (You don't know OM or where HE has been...and neither does she...)
food for thought. Yes she needs to fear losing you. But how can she?
Instead of pretending to be dating OW, imagine dating...at all.
MAYBE...maybe, tell her that you promise "not to introduce any OW to d3 UNLESS it's getting really serious." You hope she agrees to do the same.
But get other input b/c that's off the top of my head.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
So what are you doing to GAL? Don't tell me why it's hard FOR YOU as if the rest of us found it all easy.
Just tell us your plan for GAL. What are you joining or attending THIS MONTH?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
SM I will expound more on what 25 said about codependency and the fear of her losing you. Its all about POWER and I was told that by my W after her A. Ill post in the morning.
M 44 W 43 S 23 S 15 INILWY 9/11 Divorce Mediation started 3/13 June 30 the day W is moving out
MAYBE...maybe, tell her that you promise "not to introduce any OW to d3 UNLESS it's getting really serious." You hope she agrees to do the same.
But get other input b/c that's off the top of my head.
That's exactly what I did. Not to get a reaction, but b/c I saw it as the right thing to do for S2.
But...it didn't take long be for she started "fishing" for clues, and then asked me straight out if I was dating.
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I told her I was taking the time to find myself
That's pretty much along the lines of my reply as well.
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The problem is OM has confused her
If she ditches OM it doesn't mean she'll come running back. The problems you had gave room for OM.
It took me a while to see it that way, but now I really feel that's the realistic way of seeing it. Working on ourselves is more likely to help than getting rid of OM. Otherwise it will just be someone else next time around.
Together for 8,5 years. S2 Interest in OM. She left 29.09.12 b/c we couldn't work things out. No signs of OM, not digging. Living in seperate homes, sharing custody.
