Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Walk-Away-Spouse ILYBINILWY

Cantslowdown, I'm certainly not a saint, and I'm not beyond lying. For example, I've been known to call in sick for work when I really wasn't sick. But I can say I've ever lied to anyone I cared about, and definitely never to H. In fact, I grew up thinking it would be wonderful to have people think about me as the person they could go to if they really wanted an honest opinion. I'm the one that would tell you that you had something black stuck in your teeth, while everyone else sees it but won't tell you and just let you keep on talking.

But I've learned that's pretty unique, and most people don't really want honesty, or to be honest for that matter. It's easier to live in ignorance, and to live selfishly when the only cost is a few twisted words. I haven't actually picked up lying, but I have certainly become less honest. That doesn't mean I like being lied to any more than I did before.

AJ, my reference to being grateful for H making the decision for me is just that then I wouldn't continue struggling with how to fit a square peg in a round hole. Of course there would be other struggles, but at least they would make more sense in my head.

To answer your question, yes, I do believe it is H that hurt me. He's not the only one in my life, of course, but definitely the biggest. I don't fly with the "sticks and stones" philosophy that people only hurt us if we let them, if I interpret what you're saying correctly. I wouldn't be particularly upset if a co-worker lied to me. I expect my H not to, and when he does, it hurts. Mostly, it hurts because the things he lied to me about are things that destroy my safety and security. Sort of like sleeping with the enemy.

How do I trust someone that I know will put his own comfort and interests before mine? What kind of life/M is even possible?

Certainly a tough struggle, CV. I wish I had answers that would magically work for you. I'm sorry to say I don't. That's something for you to figure out.

I wonder though - what was the tipping point in all of this? Do you recall that? Can you share? Was it something you shared when with your BFF's a month ago? Or is that possible with them?

How's your life otherwise? Do you keep busy?

Peace,
AJ

Thanks, AJ, I don't expect you to have the answers, though it would be great if you did of course. I just put this thread out there hoping others could share some of their successes, or at least we could all talk it out together.

I don't think there was a tipping point. I think it deteriorated steadily. I have one BFF that I can/do share everything with. Otherwise, life is busy and enjoyable for me. School is out right now, so I'm busy with Christmas and doing a little redecorating. Met with some GF's just this morning for breakfast. I'm not unhappy otherwise, just at a stalemate in my M. H and I can get along fine with regular (superficial) life, I just don't know how to get to anything deeper.

If I had the answers, I would of course give them to you. As a Christmas present

So if you feel it deteriorated slowly, do you recall when you noticed? When you became aware for the first time?

AJ

Too bad you're not Santa.

I'm not sure of the "first time." He lied a whopper 3 months into our M, but I don't think that's what you're referring to. I would say (sadly) that two years into our M, I was already feeling like I made a huge mistake, that I chose incorrectly. Part of that was that I married a man with 4 children who put them before me from the very beginning. I used to think it would get better once the kids were off on their own, but it didn't take long to realize that they were just a symptom of the problem, and the problem lay with H.

So I guess I would try to answer your question by saying the disillusionment started pretty early on, and was reinforced pretty regularly over time. But I'm not sure that really matters. There's no going back. This is today and this is where I am. I know who/what H is. I'm not expecting him to change. I just don't know how to wrap my head around the idea of creating a healthy M with all the factors I have to incorporate into the R (eg. lying, loyalty first to kids, etc.) I've seen similar struggles here on a number of other posts. It's discouraging. I wish it was as simple as just acting as-if, but that doesn't seem to be a solution.

So is it safe to say that you "woke" up recently to the past? Is that what happened? Is that why the need for change now? What I'm trying to get at is the time/even that you decided it was time to make changes. Curious to know what was going on at that time.

Hope you have a merry Christmas and that Santa brings you something you want for a present.


AJ

No, there was no waking up. It was always evident to me that there was a need for change. I've incorporated various things over the years. It's why I've been in the other bedroom for some time now. It's why most of my activities now are things that don't include H. Are you asking why I want something better now? That has always been the case too. And I would still like NOT to be D'd and have to put friends and family through that, too. I just don't know how to make "healthy" out of what I have available to me.

And, yes, Santa always brings me what I want for Christmas. I buy my own presents.

I pulled this list from RLA's post. It's the formula for how the WAS is supposed to respond to the changes in the LBS.
I wish it were that simple.

H (the LBS) has always seemed content with the person he is. He'll make a comment occasionally about how he needs to lose some weight or get more organized or match his actions to his words, but he doesn't appear to actually do anything differently to accomplish it or even skip a beat in his daily life because of it. So basically, step one is already done for us, and has been for a long time. I would definitely describe him as a happy, fun, confident person.

It's what interested me in him initially. I really enjoyed him at first. He was always upbeat and ready to have some fun and didn't mind blowing off other responsibilities to do so. And if only I didn't have any interests of my own and would continue to follow him around doing his, and didn't mind picking up all the responsibilities that he dropped, then we could have a M made in heaven.

But I do have interests of my own, and I do mind being responsible for his negligence.

"Talking about R" with H is the absolute worst thing I could do. H hates to talk about our issues. It has always been a problem for him. He even used his last counseling session to devise a boundary where he would only have to listen to me talk about our R for 15 minutes and then, per the counselor, he would just walk away. Honestly, if he's not wanting to participate, then I don't need him to listen either. At that point, I figure he's just watching the clock. I googled Stosny as was advised to someone else, and read a lot about how that's not uncommon, that there are actual negative physical reactions for men towards "talking." I suspect he's on the high-end of this response. So there's really no point in my putting him through even 15 minutes of it, and he NEVER initiates anything himself.

I'm finding that I'm losing sight of any sort of image of what a healthy M is even supposed to look like, of what I should be hoping for or working toward, what I'll have when I "arrive." Of course, I don't want to use the examples on TV or depicted in romance novels, but then what? Maybe I spend too much time reading posts here where I see all the bad R's, and where the LBS is doing everything they can just to keep their WAS from leaving, including biting their tongues, not saying or doing anything that might upset them, doing 180's and 100% of the work, while having no expectations of the WAS, even being thrilled because they didn't talk D today. That doesn't sound like much of a life. Maybe I've just been reading too much of the bad side of things and need to spend some time instead on how already-healthy M'd couples interact.

Also, what I've learned about what I need to do to correct my own issues won't really bring H and me closer together. In fact, we've both done a really good job of GAL'g -- without each other. He does his thing and I do mine. Last night, the 3 of us sat in the family room with the tv on, half-watching a program as H surfed on his laptop with headphones (or slept), I surfed on mine, and S12 played his iTouch while a fire burned in the fireplace. It was really rather pathetic, though everyone seemed perfectly happy doing their own thing. Is that it? Is that what I should cherish about family? About M? We didn't argue. We weren't mad at each other. We really weren't anything except co-existing. I remember that about my grandparents and thinking, "How sad!", that I never wanted my M to be like that. Maybe it is supposed to be that way and I was just expecting too much.

I wish I had the answers CV. Snodderly says " Sit quietly and the answers will come" .
I'm done looking for answers. I think there's some things we may never get the answers to. Have you tried writing him a letter? I think things sink in more when they are in black and white.

Why didn't you try to organize a game like apples to apples or something? Could you have looked to see if a movie was playing? What was going on in town that the family could have done together? Is it someone else'e responsibility to inject quality time together? If it bothers you, is it your responsibility to try???

I hope you find peace in your quest, unfortunately it takes two to make it work and it sounds like you both could care less. Like your both waiting for the other to change.