Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? How is it SUPPOSED to work?

I read that post by Country_song that you referred to.

It reminds me of our snowstorm a couple weeks ago. My power was out, so my house dropped to 40 degrees and I couldn't cook and my phone didn't work and I didn't have an internet connection and there wasn't light to read by. I missed hot food and warm showers some, but the biggest irritation was the isolation. Church was cancelled on Sunday and then six days of school were cancelled. I couldn't call anyone; I didn't see my colleagues and students; I couldn't even surf these forums. It was like cold-weather camping, where all my waking hours are consumed by basic survival with some hiking thrown in, but I wouldn't choose to go winter camping without a friend in the tent I could talk to once the sun went down. I think you're trying to communicate that I need other people too much and I need to learn to enjoy my solitude, and one of the clear messages of the DivorceCare workshops is that you have to learn to be alone without being lonely. But telling me I have to learn it doesn't give me any idea HOW someone would go about learning such a thing.

My husband likes to tell this little joke: "A man goes to the doctor and says, 'Help me, doctor. It hurts whenever I do this." The doctor responds, "Stop doing that." I am miserable when I spend extended periods of time alone. Why, then, shouldn't I avoid doing that?


This rings really true about my marriage, but with the roles reversed. When we first started dating, if he worked late, I would stop by his lab and bring him dinner; if I worked late, he'd show up at my classroom with a pizza. Sometimes he'd help me with my work (I couldn't really help with his - he was writing a Ph.D. dissertation in experimental physics); mostly we'd just take a break together and then he'd do his thing while I did mine, and then we'd go home together. (We were roommates even before we started dating.) We got to a place where _I_ was frustrated by his spending the night at the lab - I might go two or three days without being in the same room with him (what I wouldn't give for that "infrequency" now!) - and I got him to agree to one night a week and one weekend a month and we would write ONAW on our calendar and go do something simple and pointless, like ride the train to an unfamiliar part of town and walk in widening circles until we found some place we wanted to hang out. He used to tease me, jumping up and down in a fake temper tantrum, whining, "Pay attention to me," in imitation of my childish attempts to get him to drop what he was doing when he brought a lot of work home. He now says that he only started working long hours because _I_ did, and he tells a story of my saying, "you're my first priority, but please don't make me give up my second," but I have no memory of ever saying that, and if I wasn't making time for him, why was the running joke about me trying to get his attention?


I assume "do not know" doesn't mean ask a complete stranger to have lunch, which might seem kinda creepy, but rather to invite an acquaintance, and there's a woman at work I've tried to connect with several times, but she's a single mom and has always had other commitments. That is the challenge you have in mind, right? Or do you really want me to try to connect with someone entirely new?


I don't much care for shopping, but I "wasted" $36 yesterday buying food for the astronomy club meeting (where "wasted" means it was an expense I didn't have to pay. So I got $72 from the bank today and left it with a post-it that said "spend me" in the Dr. Seuss sculpture garden downtown. I'll confess this wasn't an entirely uncontrolled release. The closest park to my house is in an upper-class suburb, but I left it instead where it's much more likely to get noticed by someone waiting in line for the soup kitchen at the church that borders the sculpture garden. How did it feel? The loss of $72 won't have any impact on my life. The only uncomfortable thing about it is the realization that I am spending $72 to comply with a challenge that I don't understand that was given to me by some guy on the internet whose name I don't even know. I'm not sure why I am cooperating with this - I guess just on the gamble that you will eventually offer some explanation, some insight, that I wasn't going to come to on my own.


"during your work day" is a little loosely defined for teachers, since we're expected to plan lessons, grade papers, check in with parents, etc. during the hours when we aren't at school. So tell me if this rises to the challenge:
This coming week I'm only in school Monday and Tuesday. I've already cancelled Math Team on Monday because of the faculty meeting after school. I won't grade any papers or make any parent calls after I come home Monday night, unless something drastic (a fight) happens during the day. I won't bring work home Tuesday night, with three exceptions: (1) I'm allowed to plan lessons for the coming week; (2) I'm allowed to finish recommendations for students with December 1st college application deadlines; and (3) I'm allowed to watch and take notes on the video I have to have edited for the following Tuesday. Thanksgiving dinner is an "extra" thing I have planned, but I can still do that. My divorce support group Wednesday night is an "extra" thing I have planned - will attending that defeat the purpose of the challenge? And it's okay to do things on my to-do list, as long as I don't sit down at the start of the day and plan out my schedule, so that what I choose to do at any point in time during the week will be spontaneous. Kosher?

I'm not a therapist, just a guide...

It's your story...

Our answers are always within us...

Your story appears to me to be oriented around deep connections with others and perhaps an avoidance self...

That's only my interpretation of what is only a small part of you...

And I could be wrong...

People tend to be our mirrors, reflecting back to us what we give to them...

I stopped paying attention to my W so she stopped paying attention to me...

She felt hurt by what I did so she hurt me...

You stopped paying attention to your H so he stopped paying attention to you. Even if you feel he did it first... We're mirrors... Until we stop... and reflect something different...

How you might go about learning to be with yourself will be up to you. Winter camping as you mentioned above, some people will go on "walk abouts", others go high into the mountains to mediate... You will find your solitude when it appears. Embrace it for what you can gain from it.

On breaking bread, I am talking about a complete stranger. One personal experience I had was in San Francisco. I went to a chinese restaurant and had lunch wit a homeless man who emigrated from Hungary. It was quite enlightening and heart warming. I learned a lot about him... and about myself...

I am truly impressed with your "giving" challenge. Interesting about what your mind brought up, regarding the challenge. It wasn't about who might get the money or whether that money might end up in the trash or that money might be found by a druggy or perhaps someone who didn't need the money took it...

Rather... your thoughts more went to relationships and trust... very cool... also though, you do have certain expectations of where that money might end up... the good it might do someone...

These are the things you can ponder on... what more can you infer about yourself and how you conduct yourself...


lol... I love that you're negotiating the "time" challenge... interpretation of a challenge is often as important as participating in the challenge, itself...

Notice... even while you are negotiating the challenge, you want to ensure you are doing it "right". As you did with the money challenge...

I will leave you to your interpretations... just think about how you feel as you "bend" the rules to fit within what you believe is conducting yourself within your perceived beliefs of what others expect of you... Ultimately, the goal is spontaneity and focused on you and your personal time.

I am truly impressed and I am grateful to be part of your growth.

Don't intend to interrupt the flow of this convo but just had to say this is the best thread I've read on this board.

...just reading the money challenge induced anxiety in me. But I know scarcity of money has always been one of my issues.

I hope this conversation continues.

Time to report out on my week of spontaneity:



I think what I know about myself from the monetary challenge is that I have few worries about being able to pay for my necessities, and I've been broke enough in the past to know that everything else is, well, not necessary. I also think it shows that I'm a bit of a control freak, since I didn't just drop it anywhere, I was trying to up the odds that it would go to someone I would have wanted to give it to had I just controlled it completely. And I suppose it reaffirms my sense of myself as someone who pays attention to poverty and "the least of these."

The time challenge leaves me with a much less positive view.


When I'm out to take a walk just to take a walk, I don't need directions, 'cause I don't really care where I'm going and it's no crisis if I get lost and I end up walking for a long time. On the other hand, if my car runs out of gas on a cold rainy night, I want clear directions to the nearest gas station, 'cause now I'm suffering an unpleasant experience for the sake of reaching a specific goal. I really don't understand where this challenge is supposed to take me, and it was really uncomfortable for me while I was in it, so I'd like to know that what I'm doing is going to serve the purpose of taking the challenge on. I suppose that's partly a concern about what you expect from me - you are the one person on these boards who is taking the time to respond to me, and I appreciate that. That said, I know I did a lousy job of keeping to the directive that I not make plans in advance.

In fact, I made a lot more social plans than usual. Sunday by email, L and V and I made plans to go out to dinner Tuesday night - we'd been trying to get together for weeks, but L's daughter got sick and then V's husband made conflicting plans - suddenly everyone was free and I couldn't bear to pass it up. Then Tuesday, my former student S stopped by as I was on my way out the door to dinner, so I agreed to meet him over lunch on Friday. Then I heard about the new Muppet movie, and my (6-foot-tall, 42-year-old) husband still likes the Muppets, so I asked him if he'd go see the movie with me, and he agreed to that and to having dinner afterward, which essentially "booked" the entire second half of the day, by the time I rented a car and drove to his part of the state, did movie and dinner, and got back home. I wasn't social Saturday, but I did partially build my day around the holiday hours at the rental car place and the pharmacy. Today, figuring I'd already totally blown that part of the challenge, I went ahead and went to church as usual.


That still left me quite a lot of time to be "spontaneous" since I only worked two of the seven days. I was surprised that the decision to blow off work Monday night got me in trouble - a parent actually called my assistant principal to complain that I hadn't returned her call! I was also surprised that I didn't spend any of the stretches of alone time being catatonic - clearly I can last longer than 36 hours. I did sleep a lot. I played a lot of solitaire on my computer. My body got restless from being so still, so I did my chiropractor-assigned back workout on the usual days. Except for when I was out with other people, I didn't eat (I really think I didn't consume any food at all on Wednesday). It was never what I felt like doing, so I didn't do it, but I think the low blood sugar may explain the enormous amount of time I spent sleeping. I played with my cats some. I read some. I posted on DivorceBusting a little bit yesterday. I did some laundry. I finally put away my tomato cages. I think that's it. I kind of regret that a whole week of my life has passed. I guess I feel good about having learned how to discipline myself to accomplish things I want to do, since obviously my nature is to be a lazy bump on a log. I recall that when my husband first moved out, somebody told me my behavior was classic clinical depression (I sat around and cried and didn't eat and didn't do anything else) and I needed to just make myself keep moving. Now I'm thinking that setting goals for my time is an adaptation I made then, but I don't remember for sure.

Awesome stuff, gj!

Some of the following may hit a mark, other stuff not so much. Let me know what doesn't feel like it fits.

Control in itself is not a bad thing. From what I can see, your control is not focused around the control of others. When someone tells you that you are controlling, you might actually want to take that as a complement rather than a personal attack.

Just be careful and aware that as you make things happen around you, that you are not attempting to control others in a negative way or for some self serving purpose. I do not see you doing that from what you are saying. Some of it may be self serving, nothing wrong with that in a benign way, but it's not your primary focus, or you are not trying to capitalize on it in any way.

Your challenge with time and spontaneity is understandable. It's not how you operate. You have your schedule that works for you and the things that you've committed to and you plan your spontaneous time. You don't like down time because otherwise you aren't being productive.

You don't like surprises. You don't like when things happen TO you. And you prefer to plan your fun, rather than becoming PART OF the fun that's already happening. And you don't need to know all the details of something to get a job done. It just bogs you down, wastes time, when you can figure things out as you go along.

You may feel that you don't normally need to be validated, but you may be questioning yourself and so I did want to let you know that it's all OK... you are OK...

There are a number of things that you might want to look at as far as expanding your horizons, as it were.

You likely have a tendency to take on a lot more responsibility than you might really need to. I know it's part of what makes you, you... still... one of your biggest challenges will be accepting you can't do everything... you may find it VERY liberating to let other people take the lead and responsibility... as horribly difficult as that might feel, to do...

Let me rephrase that: You CAN do everything... you just... don't need to... the weight of the world doesn't have to fall solely on your shoulders. The only one that thinks so, is you. That is why when you fail to meet the expectations of someone else, you are probably the one who is hardest on yourself. And that's why so many people rely on you. Because they know you'll always come through for them and get the job done. It's your strength... AND... it's your weakness...

As far as next challenges, I really think the "breaking bread" challenge could be very enlightening for you. How you go about and have lunch with someone you don't know is not as important. The important part is taking as much part of an hour that you and the stranger can muster to have lunch with them and get to know them.

Why?

You may know a lot of people whom you call friends and who ARE your friends. It's about pushing your boundaries and comfort zone to really, spontaneously, make deep, meaningful connections with people who have no relation to your life and will serve no purpose in your future.

Really get to know someone who you are not saving and you are not enlisting for some purpose.

Again, what's it all about? From where I sit, this is all about experiencing a fuller, broader, more meaningful life, in as many moments as possible and allowing things to happen TO us, as often as we involve ourselves in things that are happing...

Make sense?

Some people like to figure out every last detail before they start a project. That's not you.

Some people like to enlist the help of 20 people to get the job of one done, and they prefer to discuss that job over wine and cheese, before tackling the job. That's not you.

Some people just want to be part of the job and try to fit in where ever someone could use their help and support. That's also not you...

You are who you are and that's good. Incorporating the qualities of others that isn't your "norm" helps you relate better with others and grow in very beneficial ways.

It's funny coming back to the boards after being away for a while - things that seemed to completely preoccupy me before are just no longer part of my life.

I never actually did the breaking bread challenge. I did ask a couple random people - a co-worker, a couple of complete strangers. I've had lunch with people at the soup kitchen, but there's a power dynamic there that probably makes it impossible for them to tell me to go away. I've shared meals with people who were formerly strangers (my pastor, other people in my DivorceCare group, a community activist at a fundraising breakfast I went to by myself where I ended up sitting with her...) but those aren't really the situation of having a meal with someone who has no role in my life - those were just the normal way you meet new people who then come to have a role in your life. I think in the cases where I was asking someone to spend time with me when I had no more reason to talk with them than I was trying to do this challenge, it felt weird to me and perhaps they read that, because they each turned me down, the one guy I asked reacted as if I were propositioning him.

Good to have you visit, GJ!

I agree, in the context of the challenge, breaking bread with a stranger appears to work for me, only when it is spontaneous.

I completely respect that you tried. I do hope that you are able to create meaningful relationships with people now, without the need to serve them or have them serve some purpose, for you... other than simply being a friend / companion.

Hope you are well through this season!

Any time you want to "play" again, pop back here and say the word.

"Play". Sigh. When I started reading Michele's books and posting on this website, what I was hoping for was a chance to reconcile my marriage. If only THAT were as easy as "say the word"

When I look at the abyss of depth and breadth of something that appears unpleasant, I have a tendency to put on my serious and solemn underwear.

I forgot the innocence of childhood. I forgot what it is like, to really play. Even in the face of atrocity.

People live and people die, that we know. In between, is our own creation.

We can WORK to save our M... or we can PLAY to save our M... that... is our choice... regardless of the results...