Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers improvements w H but still no closeness. Now what?

The only way I won't contact him right now, chase him, try to smooth things over is by posting here. Small small steps for me. I just need to vent here before I go making things worse...

So since my earlier post today and this crap about him being "suckered into taking my car again", I've just kept to myself and focused on the work I have to do today and then got busy around the house. I assumed at some point he'd either continue to ignore me, or do something nice so he wouldn't feel like a bad guy taking the car to work after all that spewing. He made us something to eat, which I thought was nice, but honestly knowing how he can hold a week long grudge I was cautious about what he might want (I know, horrible of me to say, but this is how it's been for a few months. I have to be somewhat protective of myself!) - Then he sent me a funny email of pictures of weird animals he found online, which I thought was cute and told him so. I tried to talk to him a little, but then he was a little stand-offish when I tried to open up with more small talk. It's like an effin' see-saw these days. So I backed off and went back to my work.

At some point he started packing up a little bag with his work clothes, and was looking around frantically for something. I asked him what he was looking for, he said his headphones. I offered him mine, he declined, and then stormed out.

I imagine he's taking the bus to make his point, or else he got a ride. It's a stupid power struggle he's engaging himself in that I'm not going to participate in. Normally, I would ask him how he's getting to work and then when he says "taking the bus" I'd try to convince him to take the car. Then he insists on taking the bus, and behaves as though he doesn't want or need anything from me, bla bla.

It does affect me because his behaving like I'm just some person he happens to live with, not his wife that he should rely upon is becoming ridiculous. I have never been a saint, but I'm also very good wife and partner. All the things I've done wrong I'm working on. This punishing bs is for the birds, already. I'm tired of feeling like I need to keep proving myself a good wife. So I'm working on doing more of nothing - less reactions, less anger, less trying, trying, trying. If he doesn't see it now, why make myself miserable trying again and again?

I realize I do need to detach better. I work on it every day but still, long way to go.

I feel like my marriage is a complete failure. I don't know if this will ever be repaired. Yet another fight after a few good weeks. We had a really good week Xmas, New Year's, got along, lots of laughing...I did my utmost to steer clear of any "us" conversations, kept it light, was grateful for the little things. But honestly, sometimes I'm just fed up. Today I'm to the point where I feel like leaving, for a little while, I don't know - just escaping this bs.

Just had another argument/fight about money and ended up arguing about how much I pay vs how much he pays in bills, etc. He's acting stressed out and aggressively talking about how he's so poor now because our rent is "so high". I agreed with him about the rent, but added that it's the way we both have been spending that gets us into trouble. He vehemently disagreed with me, talking over me, etc - next thing was how he "can't even afford new work clothes, or a new pair of shoes". Which is not true. So big deal, we disagreed on those things. It turned into a full blown argument about who pays what, and ended with him telling me that when we move into our next place in a few months (lease will be up here) that I can either do X and Y or "be on my way". I've just freaking had it with feeling like I'm his roommate he can speak to any way he wants. I told him to watch the way he speaks to me, that I don't work for him, that I'm his wife. And that I'm not going to listen to his talking at me or telling me how I will do things.

He ranted about how he's giving me an ultimatum. (to be honest I don't even remember what the ultimatum was, it was something to do with our rent situation and showing him the bills I pay each month in some kind of itemized way). I told him the only time he wants to see bills that way is when he's yelling or angry.

I told him I'm tired of being spoken to as if I'm his roommate, and that I treat him very well, and with respect. I don't ask him for things, and I'm kind to him. If he wants to leave, he can. I said
"if you're so miserable and want me to be on my way so bad, why are you still here?"

He replied, "well I've been sleeping on the couch for 3 months, so you can see where I'm at on that", or something.

I told him "I've had just about enough of this". And then he left the house.

I know he said it out of anger, but I am absolutely fed up with this one-sided crap. His drinking more, acting like he doesn't love me these past few months, no sex, no I love you, the lack of affection of any kind, all of it. And I get to be a better person for dealing with it better.

More getting a life starts today. I'm sorry that this sounds so angry, but I am. I am constantly doing the best I can, but quite honestly I don't even know if this person I'm married to is going through a MLC or just simply doesn't respect me anymore. I don't know if it even matters.

I know we're taught to take care of ourselves here. To do things for us. But on the other times we're together, he behaves nicely and does kind things for me, treats me with respect (as you would a friend, anyway). Seems a lot more interested in me than he was a few months ago. Just not in any romantic way.

I'm angry and hurt. And I don't know how to be a wife to him, while pretending this doesn't eat me alive. Separating from his behavior has been challenging, but I think I've been doing ok. Until days like today when I absolutely feel devastated by his lack of concern for us or for me.

I feel like I'm married to a very self involved, self serving person right now. All he can see is himself and what he doesn't have, as opposed to how good he really does have it.

I just really needed to put this down. I may not be the healthiest person in the world, and deal with everything the way I could, but it's a hell of a lot better than chasing him down today to tell him more of what I think of him.

I just want him to appreciate me again. To tell me he loves me. I miss having that. I have friends who give me more affection and love than he does. I suppose those are the people I should be talking more to. I just don't want to burden people with this stuff, it's personal!

I'd love any advice or feedback. This BB has been incredible with suggestions, and I've taken many of them. I guess I'm just having what feels like a bad backsliding day.

Hi Bestgal, sorry to read your last message. I applaud you for hanging in with your H. Vent your anger here in the forum.

If you have the energy stick to your DB course. You repeatedly name situations which sound like you are making progress. Build on them and try to avoid situations where you feel that there could be yet another escalation.

Thank you longrun...I appreciate you saying that. Sometimes I can't see what's in front of me and if I'm making any progress, so that helps a lot.

I think I did well today after the argument...I went out and called a friend, and then when I hung up, didn't know what to do. I was on my way home, when another friend texted me out of the clear blue to say she was thinking of me and did I want to come over? Yes! So I just got home. My H was just getting home from some errands as I was pulling up home. I was calm, and casually thanked him for buying dog food when I walked in, and then went to our room to change. He sat down in the living room, and put on one of my favorite-type shows (that he generally refuses to watch). So I felt like that was a small step. And he tried to make some small talk which I thought was cool....but still, I have had enough of this treatment and intend on doing my best to keep up my behaving as much. Because it's how I feel.

It was tough for me to go out today and stay out for the majority of the night, without thought of him and it being his only day off for this week. Still at the same time, it felt very empowering not to worry about him for once.

I spoke to two of my friends about this tonight and came to the conclusion that I'm not perfect, but I really need to get out more, and separate more from his turbulence and confusion. I don't know how long this will last, but deep down I feel like he does love me, respect me and it will all come back - but not while I'm sitting here taking it!

So I have plans for the morning tomorrow, and am planning to go on as many short getaway trips as possible in the near future. And that's all I can do - I'm beyond grateful to have this board to post on and get feedback from, and it helps to read about other people who are going through the same or worse. Sometimes it's just one day at a time...

Just a quick journal to say I did well today and got out for a few hours while my H was sleeping. I came back early this afternoon and he was still on the couch (which is his bed these days), face down, covering his face with his hands. It sounds horrible to say but I kind of wished he was crying, just so I could see some real emotion from him again.

Since I was gone most of last night and then when I got home, watched some tv with him and kind of drifted off to bed without saying goodnight to him, I think he wasn't sure how to speak to me today. He gets like that a lot where he won't speak to me first, and my current way to deal with that is just to casually and kindly break the ice, for sanity's sake. Today I sat down in the living room where he was and was on my computer. When he "woke up", he immediately started doing busy work like reading stuff on his computer and his phone, with his back still to me. Since I saw it was going to be a standoff if I didn't say anything, I asked him if he was hungry, and it seemed to make things relax a little. I started making some food and doing the dishes and he jumped up and went to work in cleaning up his little "sugar den" he had going on from last night. It looked like he found everything with sugar in it and had it out on the table, ha!

Anyway, while I made us something to eat he whipped up some more food too, and we had a nice lunch together. He put on a show we liked, we had some light joking and then when it was over, he got ready for work and left.

I'm working on trying to be amused when I'm in his presence, as opposed to being disappointed sometimes. It makes it an easier lens to look at things from, because I still don't really and truly know if he's ever "coming back". How would anyone know? I don't even know if this is a MLC, if he's a WAS, in a total depression, or just buying time until he splits on me. It's not like we're chatting about it much! I don't even know if he knows.

I also realized last night that it's not just my heart that hurts. It's my ego! It [censored] to feel like your partner doesn't want to be intimate with you suddenly. It can be quite a bruise on the self esteem. But I do know that my true worth doesn't and will never come from him, it will come from me. And no matter what, I will definitely come out of this stronger if I keep up the working on my own stuff.

Hi Bestgal. I'm only catching up on your last few posts so here goes...

Your argument is very normal. We all argue in our relationships but what happens after, when all the dust has settled is what matters the most. What did you used to do before BD after an argument? How are you changing that old pattern?

Remember MWD writes that we continue to argue about the SAME topics throughout our marriage. So you will have this argument again but what will be different? How can YOU improve this argument? Not where he will agree with you but can you do to help understand each other better. A good argument will bring you closer!

I noticed you give each other space after this argument and don't discuss the topic at all after. Is this the usual pattern for your arguments? If so, what can you do different? What did he say that you are willing to accept/admit?

About venting, careful with the friends you vent to. In my case, they held a lot of resentment towards H and now that I am forgiving H, I struggle with many of my friendships.

About the anger, find positive ways to release your anger. Drawing, exercising, gardening, meditating, yoga, etc. They can also be your GALs ;-)

About your ego. Remember not to take his reactions personal. His reactions are reflective of HIM, not YOU!!

I've been re-reading DR and Michele talks about exactly this situation, you just said you had a few good weeks and then you had one argument and you claim you're sick and tired of it and want to escape "this bs". So you had a few good weeks and one bad couple of hours, what are you focused on, the good few weeks or the bad couple of hours? Do you let the bad hours wipe out the good weeks? What would be your attitude if you focused on the good weeks instead? What if you saw the argument as a minor, temporary setback to weeks and weeks of enjoyable time together?



I wasn't there, but what I'm reading in your post is "he did this and I did that", IE, you were pushing each others' buttons. It sounds to me like you want to blame him for the argument, but that you were as big a contributor to it as he was. Have you read DR lately? Michele offers tips on how to defuse arguments before they get started. Understand that YOU can stop the arguments BY YOURSELF. Read her tips, put them into practice. One tip she offers that really made be laugh is one couple decided they would only argue in the nude. So the next time an argument started they began stripping all their clothes off while they were yelling, and by the time they were naked, instead of arguing they were laughing hysterically. Quit engaging in "more of the same" behavior, the outcome will always be the same. Make a change!



Then appreciate him first. You sound bitter and angry and you sound like you are blaming everything on him while you think you are doing everything right. Remember your DBing, take stock of YOUR contributions to the problems. Ignore his contributions for now, this is about YOU. Make changes to YOU. Become the wife only a fool would leave.

Hi Veroprado, thanks for your reply... to answer your qs:



Before BD I / he used to take space from me up on the deck or something, and I would pursue and chase him down, and try to be heard. I've done a complete 180 on that, but I'm not where I want to be yet. Now, if we have an argument, I leave him alone. I never chase him anymore after an argument. I also don't go on and on ad nauseum, as much as I'd like to! Also, if things start getting heated and he's being unreasonable and angry, I'll just say "You're probably right". And he calms down.



The only reason I don't discuss things with him after, is because he's almost always unapproachable much of the time to anything other than pleasantries or anything resembling "two close friends hanging out". If I even hint that I want to discuss something, it usually ends in a fight these days. So while our usual pattern would be that we both get heated and raise our voices, he says something really hurtful to get me to stop talking, and I defend my position and keep talking - now I just try to say my piece calmly, or if I'm getting too upset, drop it and do something else until I'm calm.

What he said that I'm willing to admit is my part in our previous arguments...in the past, I haven't let things go, I've stayed angry and I've thrown his A in his face (he didn't say this, but I have, and now have ceased talking about it). I also keep talking when he tells me to stop. For me it's not so much him asking, it's the way he says it. When he's mad, he'll tell me to shut up or something similar.

I don't tell all my friends the details...some know some things, and some only know that he's going through something. I don't want it biting me back later!

I appreciate your input...

Thanks AnotherStander, you're right. And sometimes I don't like to see that I'm behaving less than stellar yet again. But yes, I have been focused on the one argument we had that I see as tainting all the other good weeks.

The wanting to 'escape the bs' was not so much the situation we're currently in, but more so the way he dismisses me in arguments with things like " if you don't like it, then be on your way". I know it's mainly said out of anger, but on top the complete void of intimacy, and his prior threats to leave, I'm just way too sensitive - and so it blows things out of proportion for me, and I want to run away from it.

I guess sometimes I don't want to be the bigger person. I miss the "I love you!" or "you're so beautiful" comments. Such is life, and stuff happens, and we have to deal with it. But this week I've not been at my best. Tomorrow's another day. I've just felt really defeated these past couple of days, and yes - blaming him as if I have nothing to do with it.

I am really emotionally raw today for some reason, and so in order to not get into an argument or "tell him how I feel" today, I just stayed busy with work, and was running around the house. When he got home to get ready for work, I was as pleasant as I could be, left the room when he was in it, and made small talk as much as possible. But I'm still needing to detach at the same time. I will take your good suggestion and read the book again! I like to read it from time to time, but I had completely forgotten that there's a section about diffusing arguments!

I also need to detach some more because if I don't, this will drive me crazy. I can't believe the series of emotions I can go through in a couple of days, when a couple of weeks ago I thought I was fine. I mean I was feeling so much pain today, and I hated it! I felt like everyone I saw or spoke to that I knew was healthier than me. I was certain my friends were thinking I was weak for putting up with this. Or that I'm too screwed up to have a happy M.

I keep coming back to that I don't understand how to be his friend and not feel like I'm being played for a fool at the same time. What if he's not in a MLC or confused, and is just here in the house with me, biding his time until he feels strong enough to leave?

How do we continue to be a friend and kind, and a spouse they wouldn't want to leave, while all the time not knowing if it's truly getting better, or they're just plotting their escape? Which could come in 3 years time? Am I neurotic? I'm just going to focus on today, and I guess we'll see what happens tomorrow. Thanks again.

I'm glad I read here how wacky some of our Hs / Ws can be - it did prepare me a little! I'm astonished at some of the self destructive things I see my H do. Today he went back to smoking cigs after 6 months of quitting. I felt bad about it, but tried not to show any reaction. I only said something like "wow you were getting into such great shape" to which he replied "everything else in my life is screwed up" or something like that.

He said he started smoking again after our last fight a few days ago ( I left for a few hours to hang out with some girlfriends after we got into it that day )....

Then about an hour ago we were sitting together in the living room (otherwise known as his new bedroom) and I heard something falling out onto the table - one of his friends had given him their ADD medication, and the pill bottle had opened and were spilling out of the bottle onto the table. He was putting them back into the bottle and I asked him why he has them - he said it's a prescription. I said it's not your prescription though....he said he only takes it when he's tired. Is that all!

We went out to run an errand and he was telling me about a guy who works with that confided in him a bunch of stuff about his wife and him not having sex in over a year due to a new baby....I was thinking, does he not see the parallels here, or am I his new BFF he just tells things to with no thought for how funny it is to hear, given our sitch? We don't even hold hands anymore, forget the sex!

On the other hand, sometimes I feel amused by the whole thing. The absurdity is just out of hand. And much of the time he pretends like this is completely normal. Pass the salt please.