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I happen to agree with you and am glad you were able to get through it with as little pain as possible. When spouses fight over everything in a D, the only people that win are the lawyers.



It doesn't mean there's not a storm brewing inside. WAS's are masters of acting cool and calm on the outside while they're going through confusion and turmoil on the inside.



Try not to beat yourself up too much over it. No one is perfect. Marriages don't survive and thrive because one spouse is perfect and the other isn't, it's because the spouses learn to live with each others' imperfections. That said, DB'ing is about taking stock of your contributions to the marital problems and changing those aspects of yourself. So don't beat yourself up, but do contemplate where things went wrong and what you need to do differently. Even if it doesn't help this R it will help with your next one.



Sure, more time is always a good thing.



Read DR. Focus on the one thing you have the power to change- YOU. Detach from H. Get a life. Work on your changes. You will come out a better person whether your M is saved or not.

No. If your D was 5 then maybe, but for crying out loud, a 15 y.o. is going to give your H an absolute EARFUL if he does anything to anger her. One of my D's just turned 16 and if yours is anything like mine then she is more than capable of handling herself in that situation. Just step out of it. You've told H your expectations, but you can't force him to abide by them. D15 can though. If he screws up once he's going to have a heck of a time getting her to visit again.

Thanks - Yes, DD is very strong willed. She found out first about OW and called Dad to confront him. BUT, she feels such loyalty to us both that I think she keeps a lot bottled up for fear of hurting us both. I've also kept a lot of my feeling from her and finally had a melt down Friday night on the way to a Football game. She asked why I was "always up in H's busines when he wasn't in mine". First it made me mad, but then just so unbeliveable sad. I broke down crying telling her that this man has been my life and best friend for 22 years. That I miss him. And I don't ask questions to know his business, I ask because I still care. It was probably good for her to see and hear that. She is protective of me. BUT like I said, she is very strong willed and has made a statment that she'd like to talk to Dad about everything but wasn't sure how. To be a fly on the wall when she does!

I really could wait forever huh? Just got to get the lawyer to send quit claim deed, he didn't have it ready when we were there (I had to resend the property description). I'm going to ask him again Monday to send it so I can get H to sign and just have it in the file so it's ready to go when I do decide I want him to file with courts.

Thanks so much for the response and advice. I know I'm not the only person to go through this, but it feels like it sometimes.

You are so right. She is so different from me and I forget that. But as I told someone else, she is afraid of hurting us both. She has handled this like a champ and I'm afraid holding out hope we will get back together. (but don't most kids?) I haven't told her no or yes, because honestly I just don't know. I fear she'll have her heart broken if and when we do divorce. Unfortunely though, because of society, she has lots of friends from divorced families. That helps her. She sees them as happy, adjusted, normal kids.

She has said she wants to talk to Dad about it but wasn't sure how. I told her she had the right to talk to him about anything she wants too. So, yes, you are right. She knows it's wrong for him to have a "girlfriend" and I'm sure will approach it when she feels the time is right. And if he doesn't watch his p's & q's ... she will call him on it.

I'm still wondering why he thinks quick 15 min visits and calls are okay "parenting". I guess that's why I'm wondering if OW is living with him, because to my knowledge hasn't suggested her staying the night with him yet, which is unfair to me technically, because I want a night out every once in a while too!! Why does he get to be responsbility free all the time?

And thanks Another for the advice and words of affirmation!

I have confirmed that OW is living with H. I asked Wednesday if DD was ever going to get to spend the night at his place. He responded, finally, that he didn't care, but he doesn't have a bed set up for her and that he didn't think I wanted her around OW. I had three words of response and they weren't nice. I did end up telling him he has ruined mine and DD's holiday's 2012, that it wasn't going to be the biggest christmas ever, but at least we would have been together and now we wouldn't even have that. He responded, "so you don't want me to come over tomorrow morning"? (DD wanted him to come eat with us Thanksgiving) I said, No, I didn't, but it would break DD's heart if he didn't come.

It has been a hard holiday and I dread Christmas already. My company Christmas party is Friday night, spouses invited of course. Then around Christmas, we always go out with friends to celebrate and all are married. I'll miss it. I doubt I'll be ready. It will hurt my feelings if I'm not invited, but I just don't think I could go this year. Then Christmas Eve we always go out to eat with my parents, have been doing it for 22 years. It's part of our Christmas present and then back to my parents to do Christmas eve present (pj's). I'm just not sure I can fake it enough to have a good Christmas.

DD and I did have a long talk coming home from H's Dad's house Saturday. I told her about OW living with H. That I think she is a recoving addict (DD said how do you know she's still not using - I said I don't which is why I don't want you around her - she said I'd be more worried about what I'd say to her!) I told her I didn't know how this would end, but that I'm giving him time. That I wasn't ready to do anything yet. I told her she could talk to H anytime and she said she was afraid of what she might say to him - she's afraid she'd cuss him and that would be bad. I told her that he's still her dad, he loves her and she should love him, but it's okay to be angry with him. I am! She said she does love him, but he's douche bag! (HAHA).

I snooped alittle yesterday morning looking for some lost money and found where on OUR anniversary he bought flowers and they didn't come to me. Not only did he talk to her more than me on our 21st anniversary, he bought HER flowers. Then 10 days later they went on a shopping spree in a town about 45 min north of us. Bath & Body Works, Goody's, Hibbitt Sports, Lunch.... so when he came by the house to share his deer meat, I basically ignored him. I said maybe 5 words and went to the basement to put up small Christmas tree. He yelled down and asked if I needed any help carrying anything up. I said no, I got it. And then he left.

I did ask him last night via text he would be willing to sit down and talk, when I was ready. He said he guess. I said thanks for being willing. From there the convo went down hill somewhat. He said he wouldn't listen to a b*tch session, he'd get up and leave. I said it wouldn't be, I promise. He just kept saying he wouldn't listen to it, what has happended has happened. Maybe it's a mistake, but I think in order for me to start healing, I need answers. And call me stupid, but I think after 21 years he owes it to me to sit down and talk about his feelings and what went wrong in our marriage. He has had "over a year" (according to him to think about this), but I haven't and I need to understand. He obiviously thinks life with OW is going to be great (although we all know it won't be) but for me I need to start someplace and this seems like a good place .... maybe its wrong and I'm not going to do anything or talk to him till I see a marriage counselor, but at least he is willing to talk as long as I don't b*tch! (See he is still trying to control the situtation - I like that I have a little bit of the upperhand with the divorce papers .. I just need to feel a little bit of control)

OH YEAH! Not only did I find out about OW living with him Wednesday, I found out that he lied and had bought a TV - he told me someone gave him one. So I left him a nice/upbeat voicemail that said I think since he can afford a 40 inc Sony HDTV, he could give me the $800 he owed me. When he got to the house, I told him that I was turning his cell phone off end of the month and cancelling his truck insurance, he wanted this, he need to learn to deal with it all. He said he was paying $22 a month for the TV. I said sorry, he wanted this, wants to shack up with w**ore than he can pay the price. (And this advice comes from his cousin (they grew up like brothers), he said cut him off and don't be naive, the money is coming from someplace. Cousin said reality hasn't hit H yet.) I took care of the bills, worried/stressed about paying stuff and making big purchaes, he's always let everyone take care of it for him. And after he got hurt and I knew he was stressed about that, I kept even more from him not wanting to make things worse for him. And to keep him from being dissapointed in me. (Yes, I know that was wrong, but at the time I thought it would be better)

I think I've hit the serious grieving stage, mixed with a lot of anger. But I'm trying to keep my anger in check and be the bigger person. H is making a fool of himself living as a married man with OW, so why should I stoop to his level.

And oh yea, SBC, thanks for the response. I do agree that at least H didn't cheat on me for months and months (only 2 1/2 months) but it is still inexusable - anytime someone cheats, it's a choice they don't have to make, therefore, inexusable.

Isn't it weird how our emotions run. Sad, angry, lonely, helpless ... everything. I'm reading DR and When the Vows Break. I love DR because I really do think I want to save my marriage, but I also think it will help me with future relationships. When the Vows Break is writen by a Christan lawyer who went through a divorce, so it is first hand experiences .. which I love because he KNOWS how it feels. I'm still early in both books because I'm also doing Divorce Care daily devotions and they are so good that I'm doing more than one a day. IF you are a Christian or just need a place to turn to ... Divorce Care daily devotions are really good, it is written by counselors, but has excerpts from people who have been through it. The very first devotion made me cry like a baby, it just touched me so much.

So sorry to hear that!



First, he'll only ruin it if you let him. Second, don't tell him anything like this. Act "as if" everything is fine. Show him a happy, content you exuding PMA no matter what he throws at you. I understand you were angry, but you should have just excused yourself from the phone and taken a few hours or days to settle down.



How would you act different right now if you didn't dread it, but looked forward to it? Act THAT way, think THAT way. Your thoughts become your actions. Negative thoughts become negative actions. Positive thoughts become positive actions.



Make sure she's OK with that. My D16 told me over the weekend that she was stressing over hearing about our R all the time. I was just trying to keep her informed, but I didn't know it was stressing her out. I told her I wouldn't talk to her about it anymore unless she asked.



Move to insulate yourself from him financially if you haven't already done so. If he's MLC then he could get into a dangerous and harmful spending mode.



I think at this point you need to ask yourself if you want to save the M or not. If you want to save it, then you will have to suppress urges like this. Per DB'ing, do not EVER initiate an R talk. Be content, happy, act "as if" you're moving on with your life whether with or w/o him. Show him a new, improved, attractive you. Become the W only a fool would leave. Now if you don't want to save the M then maybe this talk will help you move on, but it's unlikely you'll hear anything you want to.



The convo will bring you no understanding. He probably doesn't really understand it himself. He's probably confused and in turmoil even though he may not look like it.



Next time leave his purchases out of it and just ask him about the money. Be nice and upbeat about it. If you're mean it's going to make him A)not want to pay you and B)think he was justified in leaving you.



Hopefully you didn't say the struck through part. It's OK to sort bills with him, but again, do it pleasantly.



Oh boy. See above, if you want to save the M this has got to stop. Boundaries are fine, tantrums and name-calling are not.

Yes, Another, you are RIGHT. I was just so mad that I made stupid, stupid mistakes. It's so hard not to lash out when in pain. I have decided that I'm not going to talk to him about our marriage. I know what he'll say and it's not worth hearing again. But agan, it's hard because I don't see him in turmoil, I see him cool, calm and happy with his decision. I just don't understand WAS and how they can make decisions that affect so many people without consultating those it affects.

I did tell DD that I was trying to protect her from the information I had learned about H and OW. She said no, she wanted to know everything. I don't talk about it reguarly with her, but if something happens, I won't hide it from her. I do try not to cry or get upset around her. She doesn't need to see it all the time. She made a comment about H and not loving him yesterday when we were decorating the Man Cave Christmas Tree. I said no, I love your Dad, he just doesn't love me. She said yes he does. She actually makes more quips about the situation than I do. I let her and never call her down, if she needs to react that way, I'm okay with it.

Still don't have money, still paying for his cell phone and ins. He has initated contact 2 of the 3 times we've texted this weekend. The only time I initated I asked about grass killer I used on my mulching beds and it was 3 text total. The first time he texted Friday it was to get a name of a mutal friend and I KNOW he was asking so he could tell OW (okay, I don't know that for a fact, but assume it was). I purposely didn't answer 1)because I couldn't recall the name at the moment and 2)it wasn't important to me and I don't want to jump everything me contacts me, so I thought I'll wait a while. Then I did forget and didn't answer for like 7 hours. He even texted DD and told her to ask me, she said ask her yourself. HAHAHAHA! Love my DD! Then he text this morning saying he was going by the house to get deed paper to work to get signed/notarized. I asked one question and he answered. But that's it.

Our house is decorated for Christmas. With my dad's help we hung outside lights (but H doesn't have to know that, he'll think I did it). DD always wants lights and H had stopped wanting too because he wanted LED lights and I usually didn't have the extra cash to buy them. So he just stopped putting them out. Well, she wanted it and I made it happen. Our house looks nice I think. I wonder if he'll notice.

I'm still not sure what I want as far as relationship. I fear people will think of me as a fool if I want our marriage intact. I fear I won't be able to forgive or forget, but I can't picture my life without H in it. I wanted to grow old with him and retire to HIS dream hunting place (yes, I would have retired to where he wanted to retire too... for him). I want to be with him at our DD's wedding and birth of our first grandchild.

So here's my game plan ... LESS contact.(Only when needed and I'm not jumping to his text unless it benefits me), working on me, making me better, doing daily devotions, reading DR, When the Vow Breaks (self help books) and when H is coming over, I put on clothes, put on make-up, etc... I'm not going to talk to him about OW, not going to talk about relationship, I'm going to do what he is doing and think of nobody but myself (and DD of course - since he isn't!)

Thanks for the feedback!

Another: just quick update. Took your suggestion to heart. H sent me a text telling me he would leave me a check in morning. I ask if he finished mulching job. He answered nope, got to go back in morning. I just said, don't forget your cell # is released and you have truck insurance info. I'd shop around if it was me. Was that a nice reminder - I wasn't telling him what to do and wasn't telling him I was cutting him off. Just reminding him it was there to do.