Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Hello! 20 year marriage teetering... (part II)

AS - yet again you seem to say the right things and are a credit to DBing. I really do hope W comes around - based on your posts here I would marry you .

AS...you are amazing with what you have been through and where you are today. I can only hope that I can be as strong as you and get to be in a place where you are, where I can look at H and not feel that ache. I love to read your posts. You have such and awesome attitude toward your sitch. You have also given me some great advice on my situation and I appreciate that. I hope that one day, I can be where you are today, closer to reconciliation.

You and your W are in my thoughts, as I hope that things will work out and she will be back where she belongs, along with your children...in your home! I am sorry that your D16 is having a hard time, I know the feeling too well with my D14. Its so unfair to them, being stuck in a situation that they did not create and they cannot control. Its such a hard age to have this happen.

I also went through my parents divorce and it was bad. The difference is, my dad was an alcoholic and I always justified it in my teenage head that it was better since they fought all the time. My H and I didnt fight hardly ever (until OW happened) and so my kids were blindsided, as was I.

You are an inspiration to me to continue on this DBing path and continue the NC and doing what is best for the kids and I. I cannot imagine how hard it must be for you to not have your kids with you all the time, as that is sometimes what keeps me going. I wonder that about my H as well..how can he function with seeing his kids just a few hours a week?

I read your Thanksgiving post and thought, wow, he was alone and still had a great day.

Hope your sitch continues to move in an upward motion!

SB

Wow AS great job. I wish I could keep as cool as you. I was getting better until the whole vacation with OW. Then I lost it and am back to square one. I just read DB and DR probably a few weeks ago and I do good until a major event, like the vacation with OW. How long did it take you until you stopped slipping up?

I am very happy for you and agree with everything you say. My h seemed to regret his decision on the vacation before he even left. He talked about moving back and said that he and D20 had been discussing it. But, if he thinks he can walk right back after all this he's crazy, not that he would want to after my rant. But, I do think he saw how he hurt the kids. For some reason he didn't think this was a big deal. He felt like he deserved a vacation and she was the only one that could go, or so he said. But I also wasn't born yesterday.

Keep us posted on your progress. I hope to hear more good news from you soon! You always have a lot of good things to say so I hope you don't leave us if you get back together.

WOW, great post AS, man I wished I lived near you. I'd be like a stray dog over all the time lol. I'm happy you are doing that well.

Thanks for all the replies! I'll respond back to them after while but first wanted to post my thoughts on the developments of the last couple of days.

So I've taken a bit to digest my W's latest actions and in the meanwhile have just stuck with the same minimal contact with W. Here's my take on it. These are good signs, but she's still got a long ways to go before she comes out of the fog. It's a great indication that she's been able to express confusion to me because she has always been really poor at communication. So just talking about it is a big step for her. And it's also great that she spoke to someone in my family about it (it was communicated to me by my brother, but I don't know who W actually spoke with nor have I asked). So she's starting to open up. The bad news is she is still clinging to her rewritten history. This in particular:



D18 spent 4 years in marching band, concert band and Winter Guard. I think I missed 3 or 4 of her halftime performances in those 4 years, and each time it was due to one of our other kids being sick. I never missed a prelim or final in any of her competetitions, some of which we had to travel hundreds of miles to get to. I attended nearly all of her Winter Guard performances (again, unless one of our other kids was sick) and attended every concert performance. I coached S9's soccer team for a couple of years and never missed a practice or game. I take S9 to his scout meetings and events, we go for motorcycle rides about once a week and he treasures what he calls our "movie nights", also about once a week. D16 is in drill team and I've attended every single one of her performances. Currently I'm helping her learn how to drive (she has her permit). I've never missed a singing performance, meet-the-teacher event or awards presentation for any of the kids. I negotiated revised hours with my boss so I could leave work earlier to be with the kids when they get home from school (W and I both used to work late which left the kids home for hours without an adult there). When D18 comes in town from college she stays with me and since we're both movie nuts (W isn't, so she sees it as wasted time) we go see movies together and catch up on a couple of TV series I record for her. I signed up to take both D's to separate painting classes over the holidays. There's more, but I'm sure you get the idea. It is simply not true that I put myself before the kids, in fact it's downright laughable. And W should know that better than anyone.

So of course my natural reaction is I need to point out to W that this is absolutely untrue. I need to sit down with her, remind her of all of the above and she will quickly see the error of her ways and all will be good again. Except it won't. I have to remind myself that she's still in the fog, she's still embracing her rewritten history, and only she can find her way out of the fog. So, I have to stay detached, and I have to keep my mouth shut while she spins this yarn to my own family. Takes a lot of discipline to stand by silently while someone wrecks your reputation as a parent and accuses you of being selfish, but it's what I've got to do.

So, what am I doing differently as a result of this? Nothing. I'm sticking to the DB'ing, sticking to minimal contact with W and continuing on "as if". W said she wanted to talk "later", that's on her. If she wants to talk then I will be there for her. But the boards are full of WAS's that proclaim they want to have a talk later, and then never mention it again. So I'm not expecting it to happen. She said to me that she's still confused, and she said to whoever in my family she talked to that she still doesn't love me. Those are two big hurdles she needs to clear before we can have any kind of meaningful reconciliation discussion. And it may take months for her to jump those hurdles.

So I pray for patience because I sure don't have much

AS - Just finished your entire story (I sure hope my work isn't tracking my internet usage these last couple weeks) and I have to say you are a true inspiration. I hope I can stay as calm and disciplined as you do. I do think of things you and other DB'ers have told me when I interact with W which has been helping my sitch.


I completely know how you feel with this one. I've given up trying to convince my wife her rewritten history is BS. It's tough but because of this site I understand why and what she is doing and it has made it easier to detach. I know the truth and I keep telling myself deep down she does to and someday she'll figure it out again. Gotta keep hope right? My W went so far as to link up with new friends that have never met me or kids to discuss our M with because her old friends know she went off the reserve. Thankfully she's slowly starting to reconnect with her old friends over the last few days.

Again AS I admire you patience and always look forward to reading your wisdom on the boards. Stay strong

ROTFLOL! You guys crack me up My mojo magic is working on the wrong sex



Yes, I've also been pretty dim with W although I can't go completely dark due to the kids. I've detached to the point that I was ready to drop the rope, and in fact was very close to doing so before this development. I have to admit it caught me by surprise that W is still so confused, because by all appearances she seemed to be enjoying living on her own.



I definitely don't expect an overnight turnaround from her, and if she had one I don't think I would accept her back into the home that quickly. There's a lot we need to work on first. You may recall from my old thread that there was a Retrouvaille here in October, but W had just moved out and I didn't feel the timing was good. There's another in January and I think the timing for that one is perfect. So I see that as the next step. I'm going to wait about a week before talking to her about it on the off chance that she does decide to approach me about the R talk she mentioned. And if she doesn't approach me, then I'll approach her about Retro and describe it to her as a means to improve our communications with each other. I'm not going to present it to her as an effort to save the M. I don't want to put pressure and expectations on her about the experience.



That was a test to see if you were still paying attention since it was such a loooong post. Congrats, you passed the test



Exactly. The book goes into that as well. Now others can obviously influence our happiness, but like you say, it still has to originate with us. I think our sitches are a classic example, it takes a long, long time after BD before we feel happiness again. So a person can do something to us that rips our happiness away. But we can bring it back WITHOUT them, and once we realize that we don't need them for happiness, then we're on the road to recovery.



Job well done!! That's perfect!



I may have forgotten to mention that, but I talked to the kids and they all wanted to have W over on Christmas morning so I did tell her we'd do that.



Thank you, that's very flattering! Due to the constraints of typing and risk of boring people I don't journal about every little thing I go through, but I want to assure you and everyone else that this had not been an easy road for me. I don't want people to read this and say "how does he do this when I cannot", I want people to read it and say "he did this and I can too!!" This whole sitch brought me to low places I never even knew existed. I have much more sympathy for people in pain and depression now, I used to think "why don't they just snap out of it" but now I know just how deep and dark the despair can be and how impossible things look when you're mired in it. I was there, and now I'm not. What I've learned is that strength is a funny thing, you think you have it until you well and truly have your world torn away, then you find yourself in a deep, dark hole and chastise yourself for not having any strength to do anything about it. Then suddenly you look up at the light and start scraping and clawing your way out of that hole and when you come out the top and look back down into the pit you realize you are a LOT stronger than you ever realized you could be. You say "wow, I did that, and now I know I can do anything!!!"



I hope you get there too, but what I hope most is that you get to the point where you see that you will not only survive, but will thrive whether you reconcile or not.



You never know what a WAS is really thinking. They may seem fine on the outside, but inside it may be tearing him up that he hardly sees them.



Thank you! And don't worry about your backslide, we ALL backslide now and then. Just learn from it and keep moving forward.



I think it was about a month after BD that I found DR and these forums. I slipped up a lot before that, but I saw the wisdom in DB'ing right away and have been pretty good about sticking to the principals. But in the early days after BD I did all the typical wrong things- begging, pleading, crying, negotiating, explaining, reasoning. It didn't help and probably hurt things.



Oh I think my sitch still has a long road ahead, and I'm not planning on leaving this place because it's really helpful to journal and talk to others going through the same thing!



Thanks! Boy, wouldn't it be great to have DB get-togethers? I really only have one local friend that has any clue at all about WAS's (and he's been a godsend). At least we do have the forums to hang out on!

Oh, one additional thought I forgot to mention earlier. When D16 had her 4 am talk with W and W told her I hadn't changed, that I still put myself first, D16 said "well Dad sets lots of things up for us and always invites you along, but when you set stuff up you never invite him along." W's response was "good point". LOL!

Why do you think your W says that you still put yourself first?

I know you've made changes but you've been at the changing for less than 6 months and were married for 20, together 25.

Her wounds probably run deep, as with my H. He said many of the same things your W said at BD. I could pick all that apart with logic but the fact remains that he is done. He might have long, dark nights of the soul but he remains steadfast. He was deeply hurt by things that happened in the marriage and doesn't want to revisit that.

You said you almost dropped the rope and then didn't because of what she said. Explain that a bit more. I think you have dropped the rope and that's a good thing.

Hey Spartan, that line cracks me up because that was me too, I spent weeks doing next to no work while living on these forums reading threads going back years and years! Thank goodness things were pretty slow at work.



Great, that is the key, that is exactly how I have managed to stick with it. When something comes up I recall things I have read here or in DR and respond accordingly. It's basically a relearning process and it gets easier the more you do it.



Good. It really helps to know not only what you need to do (or not do), but the reasons why. I think once you understand why, then it's a lot easier to do things that at first seem counterintuitive.



Definitely, hope is what keeps us going. Early on I desperately clung to hope that my M would be saved despite everyone (including our MC) saying it was over. The thing is, even if it was over, people need to be more sensitive to the needs of someone in that sitch. They need hope to survive, and if you steal it from them you are hurting them and hurting their recovery efforts. This place was the only refuge that offered any hope at all. Anyway, some day your W will emerge from the fog and will remember the truth. It's impossible to know how long it will take and whether it will lead to reconciliation, but it will happen.

W is not consistent on this. Not too long ago there was an R/C fly-in that I really wanted to go to, but it was the same weekend as a parent meet-and-greet at D18's college. I told W I was going to the meet-and-greet and her response was (paraphrasing from memory, I think I posted her actual email in the other thread) "you never do anything for yourself and I know how much you love those fly-ins and they're only once a year, you should go. There will be plenty of meet-and-greets to go to." So on the one hand she says I always put myself first, but then on the other hand she says I NEVER (and she did use that word) do anything for myself. I'll leave you to interpret what that means, because I sure can't And for the record, I did go to the meet-and-greet and missed the fly-in.

But, one of my faults that I've done a 180 on is I did complain a lot. I would gripe about having to do sooooo much stuff with the kids. Just to W, not to the kids. And I did (and do) enjoy the activities thoroughly, but I would gripe to W and say things like "good grief, it seems like we never get a break from this stuff, I can't believe there's ALWAYS some deal we have to go to here or there, I can't ever get anything done at home because of all of this." I was just venting, it's not that I didn't want to go. I was just irked that it seemed like we never did anything else. Well at BD that was one of W's complaints, that I complained too much and was too negative. I took that seriously and did a 180 on it. I have not griped about going to any kid-related stuff since BD. It was one of those things that I didn't realize affected W, I was just venting but she apparently was getting upset over it.



I mean I was ready to push to initiate D in January, to move on and start dating. I really did think she was done and happy with her new life. I had no idea she was still in limbo.