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Thank you very much, Starsky, Tumbling and SD for writing in. It's really nice to hear from you.

Starsky, on the subject of hiring a private investigator, do you think that knowing the facts would change how I'd deal with the sitch? I'm torn on this one and worried that it might be quite expensive. I'm also scared I'll get sucked into wanting to know more and more detail.

On the flight back from Canada I was full of resolve about detaching and 180s but it's harder when the triggers are right in front of me. So far so good though in terms of my overt behaviour. I haven't commented on the fact that H was out last night (supposedly a family that he consults for invited him for supper) and will be out tonight (supposedly an old friend wants to see him for supper). I haven't mentioned that I can smell that he's been drinking every day for the last few weeks.

[I did, however, comment yesterday that my S17 smelled of alcohol and it went down very badly in that he told me not to be obnoxious. I didn't think I was being obnoxious I was surprised because it was 8.30 pm and he'd just come back from swimming. It turns out that he and friends had gone to a pub to celebrate a friend's 18th birthday before he'd gone swimming. (Here you can drink after 16 if with food and with someone over 18). I sometimes feel that I could do with applying DB principles in my R with S17. I find him difficult.]

Back to H, he did say that it was nice to have me back 'malgré tout' (despite everything). It's a phrase we've used a lot in our R so it's sort of an inside joke. I wonder how much he meant the 'despite everything' bit.

As you say, SD, let's get it right this time. I will keep checking in here as I know how much it helped last time. This community really is a godsend

H is out and I am dreading his return. Supper with S17, D15 and S13 was really relaxed without him. They no longer question his whereabouts because he is so often absent and elusive.

H said he was going out with an old friend but I'm not sure that is true. The last time he went out with an old friend, he had zero info about his friend and his family's lives. In my experience, when he genuinely sees someone, he always comes back with some morsel of information about their lives. I'm feeling tense already at the thought of him saying that nothing's up with his friend and he has zilch news. I will feel really suspicious. One thing I can count on is that he will smell of alcohol.

I hate this game but I'm determined not to do what I've been doing this past year: questioning, complaining, pursuing... I have got nowhere good this past year so this course of action can't be worse.

The play that he took possible OW to in August is now sold out. D15 wants to go and it pisses me off that H managed to get tickets for himself and OW but not for us. The play is seen through the eyes of an autistic boy. OW knows nothing about autism and we're the ones with the autistic son.

I don't even know if I like H anymore. I feel more relaxed when I'm far from him (either me away or him away). I feel anxious when we're in the same place but he's off being secretive. I felt relaxed during supper but the tension is building up as he'll probably be home in not too long--at least if he sticks to when he said he'd be home. I don't like the idea of separating/divorcing and all the logistics that would go with that. I'd hate to have to see the kids less and I'd probably have to deal with H at his bitterest. My parents got D when I was 13 and I wouldn't wish it on any child of mine. I feel as if all options are unpalatable: (1)carrying on and (2)instigating a separation both have their downsides.

I wonder how long it will take for H to notice that I'm no longer questioning him the way I used to.

We've been invited out as a family for supper tomorrow. At least, I know he'll be with us then but he said he wished the invitation wasn't still in place. We were invited months ago so there was a chance that the hosts had forgotten.

Wendylon, so sorry things aren't going better. I understand you questioning whether you even like H or not, I think we all cycle through that and question whether our M is worth all the efforts we're putting in when our spouses are doing nothing at all. All I can say is try to keep things in perspective, your overall game plan is to save the M and you're going to have a lot of ups and downs on the path and these thoughts are just part of the "downs". But stick to your 180's because they're as much for you as your H, and detach more to keep your sanity and improve your PMA. Then give H time and space to sort through his issues. Best wishes!

Thank you very much, AS, for your encouragement. I've reread your last post to me several times and it really does help me to see the bigger picture and hang in there. I felt really low at some point earlier this morning and remembered that these changes are for me and that it is a long journey.

As MKB said on your thread, I do find weekends the hardest. It's when H's silly excuses for being out are the most obvious. When I can't sleep, I start obsessing about all the lies he's told me in the 22+ years we've known each other.

I think he's starting to notice some 180s. I didn't hassle him about getting S13 to swimming on time yesterday morning (something I've pbly done for the last 10 years) and he then asked me what time he normally leaves for swimming! I replied casually that I wasn't quite sure.

He also apologised for being in his boxers the other day and thanked me for not getting on his case about it. He got it a bit wrong because I never get on his case when it's just the two of us in the house. I get uptight when carers are here for S13 because I think it makes them feel as if they're intruding.

I usually leave my bath water for him but since he slept in late, I drained the bath. He looked a bit upset when he saw it was drained and then didn't bother having a bath. He knows that I usually encourage him to have more baths than he wants to and so it's been in my interest to leave my bath water for him. He claims it's because I'm so uptight that I harp on about cleanliness all the time. I'm just going to let that one drop--esp if there is another OW in the picture! I'm also not going to comment on whether or not he should shave.

Every now and again he asks me if I'm ok. He knows something is up. I sometimes wonder what I would say if he really pushed the question. I'd be tempted to describe what I'm doing but that probably isn't wise. I do know that I'd love to say something sarcastic when he makes up one of his excuses about being out. That wouldn't help either. Finally, I'm dying to point out that he smells of alcohol every single day and that I'm not a complete mug.

H tried to engage me on the topic of S17 this morning. I did bring him up to date and H says he wants to have a man to man talk with him about universities etc.. S17 is focused on taking a gap year next year and doesn't seem to realise that his future won't somehow get solved in a gap year. Anyway, I'll believe that H will talk to him when he does. He rarely follows through so I doubt this one will happen.

He's gone now (supposedly to the farmers' market) so I probably won't see him until we go out for our regular Sunday evening meal. He goes to Belgium on Wednesday so only a few more days before I can relax a bit. A week ago today I was still in Canada. It was so much easier to feel detached all those miles away. When he's at home, he's on his laptop for hours. I can see the reflection of his screen in the window when I go downstairs past his study to the kitchen. I can see that he closes his window so that I would only see his desktop if I bothered to go right into his study (which I don't).

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

I'm starting to wonder if H's issue is more secret drinking than OW. From being someone who only drank socially, H is now someone who reeks of alcohol every night. He's not drinking in front of me but he must be going to a bar or a pub every day before coming home. He went to bed early tonight and I hate that sweet smell of alcohol emanating from him. I'm next to him in bed but he is conked out with some occasional snorts. I'd love to know how much he's drinking. I'm not sure what it would do though.

I figure that the advice for the partner of someone who is drinking is probably not that different than the advice for the partner of someone who is seeing an OW: detach, GAL... I still wonder what I'd say if he pressed me more on my seeming more detached. He must have noticed that I haven't questioned him on his whereabouts and that I haven't brought up the smell of alcohol. He knows that I have a super-devoloped sense of smell and when I've mentioned that I can smell alcohol or tobacco in the past he's got upset (because he's tried to be secretive). I'm wondering whether I should mention that he smells of alcohol every day and that I'm concerned? My not doing it is a real 180 (though I've never been in this situation with him before where it's an everyday thing).

I found today easier because of it being a week day. He goes to Belgium on Wednesday for work so I have that to look forward to.

Tonight, he got back at 7.40 (later than our usual supper) but I was behind on the meal preparation so he joined us just as we were starting. It was a cheerful family supper (thanks to the kids mainly). He and I then watched one episode of The Good Wife. Whenever we watch an episode of something, he bolts out of the room as soon as it's over. It annoys me as I'm then the one to turn off the DVD and the lights etc... I can't really see how I could bolt out of the room any faster than he does--especially as he sits closer to the door.

Our supper out last night was fine. We talked about the kids and family news. I've noticed that I do a lot of the conversational work. I tried to wait for him to bring up topics so there were quite a few silences. At one point, he looked at me and I asked what he was doing and he responded that he was trying to figure out the expression on my face. God knows what that's about.

I'm still hyper aware of what he's up to and yet I don't find him or his behaviour very appealing. I'm not sure why I'm so focused on him. I feel annoyed with myself for pouring so much energy into trying to understand what he's up to.

His father led a parallel life. In fact, H is the son of the OW. My worst fear is that he's following in his father's footsteps and somehow getting away with it. I don't really think that's happening but there is so much that I don't know that there is lots of room for fantasising/catastrophising--not a good thing.

I also have to disagree with the others about the PI. In the end, either you will waste money and you learn nothing new or you learn something new and all it does is hurt you. Decide if an affair is a hard line for you. If not, don't bother. If it is and you just can't rest not knowing go with the PI. Although, it sounds like you do not intend to change your tactics either way so I don't see how it would be beneficial.

Just keep GAL! If you really suspect drinking obviously he is using it to cope in some way. You might just keep an eye on it. Then is there anyone else you can ask to see if they have noticed changes that would make people think he was drinking. Often alcoholics drink at lunch as well. That might be one way to find out. If you think he would agree ask him to a lunch date near his workplace. Obviously not if he would consider this chasing. Perhaps if you do not initiate contact while he is gone he would be more open to that suggestion when he gets back.

Awwwww, you just made my day! I'm so happy you found it uplifting!

That's great that he's noticing your 180s! Sounds like you're changing the dynamics of the R, it'll be interesting to see how he reacts.



Now that's a tough one. I'm not sure DBing (acting "as if" everything is fine) is appropriate when alcoholism (or borderline alcoholism) is in the picture. If this is getting to be a daily event for him then that's not good. Unfortunately you can't really say anything to him because he'll just perceive it as nagging, but maybe you could discuss it with a friend or family member that he might listen to?



Just tell him it's for you, that you feel it's best to separate yourself from the situation for your own health and well being. You're not necessarily saying you don't want the M, but you're leaving some mystery about your intentions and that's exactly what you want to be- mysterious.

Thank you, MKB, for your input. I agree with you. At this point, I think I would resent spending the money on a PI. I'd rather spend it on GAL.



I think I won't mention anything for now. Part of our history is me nagging him about his eating, smoking, drinking and I know I won't get anywhere. Again, I won't bother for now and it's a 180.



For a while, it feels as if I've initiated most of our 'dates' so I'm backing off from that for now. Maybe in a few months' time... Thank you for the idea.

That sounds like a great response (if I need it). Thank you very much, AnotherStander. I feel at peace with that response.

I'm worried today that he's beating me at my game. As I'm detaching and going a bit dim, I feel that he is detaching more and going dimmer. Instead of compensating, he's out-detaching. I'm not sure I've expressed that well.

Here's an example: on Sat, I got back a bit later than I would normally. This morning, he asked me if I'd be in this evening. It seemed like such an odd question given that I'm in 99.99% of the time. My texts to him have got shorter. His have got even shorter. It's as if my backing off makes him think that he can back off even further and that the new rules are that we are v detached from one another.

He came home with D15 a few minutes ago and immediately rushed downstairs while D15 chatted with me about the school concert they'd been to. He makes a point of spending very little time in my company. I bet that at supper tonight, he'll leave the table first to go back to his study.

As I said, I know that he's reacting to my doing things differently. I'm just worried he's reacting by by detaching further himself. Even the fact that he's stopped asking me if I'm OK makes me worried.

He can be a bit paranoid and I wouldn't be surprised if he thought that I was thinking of leaving him so he's preparing himself (not by fighting for me but by retreating himself). In fact, I can imagine him saying to me "It looks as if you no longer want to be with me". What would I say to that? He said that to me on my birthday (Aug 14) when I'd been out of the house all day (the day after he'd taken OW to the theatre).

Any advice much appreciated.

If he's cheating detaching is simple. All he has to do is pay attention to his OW. He won't even be thinking of you.

True detachment is letting them go in the mind.