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Well this morning he went to the house, after I had left for work, and started to move the furniture back and scratched the newly finished floor. I didn't get mad but I could tell he was mad and he was kind of taking it out on me. His tone of voice was really ignorent and it upset me. He could tell it upset me and he thought I was mad at him for scratching the floor. I told him I wasn't that it upset me that he was taking it out on me. Then he told me I could move the rest of the furniture. Obviously I have to call people for help so it won't be that easy.

Kat, I don't know what to do when I need to know an answer about something, whether it be for the house or the kids, and he doesn't respond until a day or two later. It is very frustrating and normally it would get me mad but this is where I am trying to keep my cool. I'm not sure how he would react if I left him hanging because I don't do that to him. I try and treat him like I would want to be treated. Especially since all of this has happened. Of course he doesn't see it and I am not pointing it out.

It is the little things, that add up to big things, that I have trouble knowing how to react or not react. So far I still am not calling him, just answering when he calls or texts me.

This morning through all of that he made a reference to me going to most of my daughters games too. The only response I made was that I was glad I did and I wouldn't change that for the world. It makes me happy and I think it makes her happy too. He, on the other hand, didn't attend many. I don't think he should be able to attack me for doing that.

Today H came by to take our daughter to practice. He dropped her off and I text him and told him there were some things we needed to go over. I told him I didn't realize he was leaving because I was putting things back in order from the floors being done. He said "I sat in there and u didn't say anything." I told him I have things to do and I am giving him the space he wants and needs. It seems as though he expects me to entertain him when he's there. I also asked him if he was picking up D20 from the airport and he said he was going on vacation and he would not be able to pick her up. Long story short, he is going out of town with another woman. A woman I found a text from about a year and a half ago. Back then when we talked about it he said she had feelings for him but he didn't for her. The text said that she loved him but he blew it off - of course I didn't believe him.

As of right now I don't know if our kids even know he is going on a vacation since he doesn't live with us, much less with another woman. We were at a friend's house when I found out. I acted like I didn't care and told him he could do whatever he wanted, but I am so hurt. I am trying to get a life but things like this still hurt. I actually thought things were getting better.

Well I was doing so good and I lost it. D15 wants nothing to do with him and D18 is really hurt. She is trying to mask it with having to say goodbye to her boyfriend but she is a pleaser and she did not tell her dad exactly what she thought. D20 who is very close to H tries to tell H what to do all of the time. She cracked as she is seeing her family fall apart. She finally called me and told me how much this is hurting her. I think H thinks they are fine with all of this.

I don't know if the WAS realize what they do to the family. I was GAL then when all of this happened I thought I would be OK when I found out something like this but now I realize I'm not.

He did call and try to make it sound like "I told you I needed a vacation and I couldn't find anyone else to go. I told you I would go with male or female. " Just so happens this woman is after him. He told me that he realizes now that this is uncomfortable for both of them. Yeah right. He told me he had been thinking about moving back home and D20 was really pushing for it. Funny way to show it.

All of my DBing went out the window and I lost all the progress I had made because I was so hurt. I told him that I felt used because we had been physical in the past though I had stopped it. He also had seemed to want to be around more. He was even on his way to my parents for Thanksgiving but when he called I told him everyone was already leaving. Then he stopped by our house. I saw that as a positive sign. Then this blow. Though I know these plans were made probably a while ago.

The funny thing about this whole thing is I really thought we had made progress. Tiny steps but steps in the right direction. I feel so stupid.

The reality of the OW has really hurt the kids though and they are not little so it does show you that this hurts kids of all ages. They all saw how much I was trying to keep the family together.

So now I am back to square 1. I said a lot of things that I meant, but still should not have said. That has always been my problem though I had done really good at containing it. This one I blew. I think it is because I thought things were going well. I have no idea how long this has been going on and he hasn't said. I don't have a lot of information on it yet. I don't know if I should ask him to come completely clean or what. I know I needed to act like i don't care and I did tell him he can do whatever he wants we're separated. But I did lose it on the phone and cried. I think it is because I feel like he has made a fool of me. It is because of that and what I see it has done to the kids that I am so livid.

Right now I can't even think of DBing. Right now I don't even care if we ever get back together. If anything good has come out of this it is how important it is for me to GAL and stick to it. I think I have been too nice and that is because of the kids.

I would imagine his affair is why he moved out. It is also why he gets mad at you, because he is mad at himself. Take this time to regroup and figure out what you want. We can start after that.

kat

Ok so today H text me saying when he moved out we agreed we could see others. I told him that what I said was that when you get to that point will you please give me the courtesy of telling me and he agreed. Of course he didn't. I didn't want to tell the kids Dad was going to start dating if it didn't happen. I didn't think it was wise to rock the boat if we didn't need to. Maybe that was wrong on my part.

Yesterday I tried calling him several times because I had no idea when he was coming back and he has put me in quite a bind, especially not knowing he was even leaving. I have had to scramble with D15 and other things I had going on.

He text me and said "I guess you were calling to yell at me like always and tell me you called your lawyer" He also reminded me of he could do anything he wanted and I didn't have any control over him.

I told him I had been leaving him alone and yes he can do whatever he wants and it was him that said "I left because you weren't paying any attention to me". What? You left me and our family because you wanted space now you want me to pay attention to you when you come over? How do I respond to that?

I also told him that I understood the need to get away but with another woman? I said didn't you think about how the kids would take it? Especially since there is some "history" with this woman. (She has sent multiple texts telling him she loves him in the past.) Our kids are very hurt.

When he said I'm sure you tried calling me to tell me you contacted your lawyer I said " I did not contact my lawyer. While I completely disagree with you going with another woman, especially her, I am trying to put the kids first. I said I am working on myself to be a better person for our marriage, our family and my relationships. I said initially I did it for you but now I'm doing it for myself. I got that line from someone else on here - haha.

I said some other things but that was the gist of it. While I am still very hurt and wanted to go off on him, I refrained. For me, that is a positive step.

If I hadn't been reading other's posts I would not have been able to refrain the little bit I have. I have a hot temper and I am really working on controlling it. And, I really do want to get it under control.

I am interested to see what he is going to be like when he returns. Before he told me he was going he had been really nice and I thought we had made some pretty good progress.

Any advice?

I also text our counselor that I didn't feel like we were getting anywhere. I told her that I had been reading these and other books and I am very pro-marriage. I told her I didn't feel like we were setting goals, talking about how people do fall in and out of love during a marriage and it is a lot of hard work. I also didn't feel like she expressed that it is never one person. While I have openly admitted to both MC and H that I take responsibility for my part and I am working on myself, I believe we are both to blame. I told her that if she did not believe that every marriage can be saved and could effectively communicate that to and with us then I didn't think we would ever get anywhere.

The problem is I don't think I could ever get my H to change counselors again. I felt lucky to get him there after the last counselor he didn't like. I am still thinking about a DB coach but I have to deal with the MC too. I think he likes her for the most part.

The DB coach can give you ideas to try for your situation. They of course are pro marriage. I would say at least try one session. While he is away would be a perfect time.

I would continue to focus on you and the kids. I have often told people to treat their walk away spouse as you would the mailman, cordial but not too involved. He seems to be wanting you to be falling apart so that you will be giving him more attention. Don't give him the satisfaction. Don't try to appease him, or beg and plead with him. Frankly, I would be ticked. Use what he has been doing to you and your girls to keep yourself focused.

Kat

Kat, that is exactly what I was doing. I was treating him cordial but not too involved. Right before his little "vacation" he was at the house and next thing I knew he was leaving. He said that I wasn't paying any attention to him.

I'm not sure if just being cordial to him was working as much as the 180s. All the things he would complain about I was trying the 180s. My problem is when something big comes along, like the trip with the other woman, I couldn't bring myself to sit back and act like it didn't bother me. What I was successful at was a day later instead of still going off on him I didn't. Believe me I am still livid but I am biting my tongue. My youngest is the one who he is going to have to talk to. She just told me tonight that about a month ago he asked her what she thought if he was to date. She said absolutely not. Obviously he did it anyway and that may be the part she is so mad about. D15 and I talked briefly tonight and I said I thought you were ok with a divorce? She said she didn't like the fighting all the time. I said what if we were able to get back together and work out the things wer were fighting about. She said that would be ok but I will never be able to get past what he did. Of course I don't want him back if he isn't willing to work on our marriage. I don't want him to move back and go back to the same ole same ole.

He has been gone for 7 months so he knows that I can and am doing things for myself. That was another gripe of his. I always wanted to do things together. Now I don't even bother asking him. In fact, he made some comments that he didn't know some things were happening with the kids. I felt like if he needed his space then it was up to him to find out from them what was going on. He says he doesn't love me so why should I go out of my way to tell him things.

Before he went on his vacation, I did notice that he was doing small things again. Things that seem stupid but yet things he used to do. I hate being cold and sometimes if he had cold hands he would put them on my bare skin. Or just doing things to make me laugh. These things had stopped until a few weeks ago. I'm sure he had made those plans for the trip at least a month or so ago.

I may call a coach to find out what to do when he returns. There are some things I would really like to know but don't know if I should keep my mouth shut or ask.

One thing I learned early on is he is responsible for his own relationship with his kids. When I would give him a heads up about them being upset about something he would say I was putting words in their mouths or that they were projecting my feelings. 4.5 years post divorce....nope, that is all on him not actually connecting with his kids.

I get along with my ex. Strangely enough like we are still together. However, we are not friends, we are parents.

Kat

Update: So H called me from his vacation this morning. He said D15 tried calling him late last night but he didn't pick up. He asked me if I knew what she wanted and I said I didn't even know she called but said she did ask me if he had service where he was because she knew he didn't pick up when I called.

That initiated a conversation. He said that when he talked to the kids they said they just wanted him to be happy. I told him that kids don't always speak their mind because they don't want to disappoint. He genuinely seemed sorry that he has hurt everyone, but I'm sure especially the kids.

We are going to talk when he gets back home Saturday night. He said he is tired of living with his parents and that he had really enjoyed the time that we had spent together recently. He said he had been contemplating moving back -admitted that the kids would like that too.

I think he was surprised that I had calmed down so soon since usually I stayed mad for a while. I told him that I had really been working on myself and he said he had noticed. The kids said they had noticed also. Before DB, well and even after, sometimes I would send him interesting articles. He said that he had read some of them and they made him think. I told him that after reading some of this stuff it made me want to work even harder on our marriage. I told him about some of the statistics and effects on kids and how many people wish they had worked harder to save their marriages and that's why I wasn't giving up.

I know, I know what you guys are going to say. Sometimes it seems like you are in a conversation and it seems like they are in a place receptive to really listening. This was one of those moments. I know that the books say you can't jump back in too soon and especially talk about R.

I can be gullible so I hope I am not taking this the wrong way. Afterall, he is on a vacation with another woman who he keeps telling me is just a "friend". When I reminded him that I read those texts where she said she loved him etc, etc, he replied that was a long time ago and that her and many other people think he needs to give this another go.

I still haven't called a coach. I definitely won't let him move back until he is ready to work with me on our marriage. I don't need another person to take care of and pick up after. I know the girls would really like to have him back for the holidays because we are always together as a family. Except for D15. This is going to be a tough one because she is very hurt. I also don't want to ruin everything I have worked for, eventhough I have had my share of slips.

Kat, do you and your x ever talk about things? I don't know your sitch but were you DBing then? Does he regret not working on it? You seem to have your head on straight and just wondered.

I hope I didn't set myself back again by that conversation this morning. He seemed genuinely receptive. Sometimes, even this morning, something will come up that we don't agree on. One of us did something the other didn't agree about. We both said that doesn't need to be rehashed. For me, that is a good sign because before he kept telling me everything I did wrong since the day we met.