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Another small update for tonight...

H sat at the table with us!

He didn't exactly "sit down to dinner" - he started at the counter and I asked him to join us. He said no, but then a minute later he sat down and finished his dinner at the table. Woo hoo!

I didn't say anything to him when he sat. Didn't want to "scare him away". My stepmother said I should tell him it's nice to have him at the table but I feel like that's pursuing. It feels so "un DB" to jump on that.

As usual, he left me to clean up the dishes and he went upstairs with the boys. I went to walk the dogs and when I got back he was going to sleep. I told him thanks for helping with the boys when he was not feeling well. I figured I could say this genuinely without being too pushy. He sort of paused to let me give him a little hug before bed.

He said, "Thanks for taking care of everything else." Wow, he's noticed! I've been working my butt off with the boys and the financial stuff and now getting ready for this camping trip this weekend.

And actually, for the first time in a while, today he allowed me to make him breakfast, lunch and dinner. Not that I want to be his servant but this is one of the ways I like to please him and it was upsetting to me when he wasn't accepting it. Although, at some point today, he made himself a peanut butter sandwich and then put the empty jar back in the fridge... it is taking all I have to just ignore these things...

I am hoping he's starting to see things as they are now, and trying to let go of the past.

This weekend's campout should be interesting. We're going to be with all the other families from school. It's not unusual for each of us to do our own thing during this weekend but it's actually always bugged me (a lot) that we do that, not just here but in general. I wish for once he'd put his arm around me and bring me into his conversation.

It's a very family oriented weekend but people socialize with each other too. Since he is relying on me to plan and provide the food I would hope that he would eat it with us.

I think this is awesome Regret. You are aware, and you are patient. Eventually you may have to change gears if he doesn't move at all, but when that is is up to you.

I agree with 25 in that you have to stand up for yourself, to not be treated like crap, or punished if you will, just because your H is still trying to deal with his pain. If you feed that part of him, I think it's taking a step back. But I think you can do that while still being patient and understanding.



It sounds like you are seeing some baby steps. Good for you! A lot of times I think of how I'd like my M to be in 5 years. Assuming I get there, and I looked back on it then, what would have been the first signs of it turning around? Sometimes that just helps me see and appreciate those baby steps.

More journaling & updates:

Nothing too exciting today. H had to travel for work so I was on my own for most of the day. Realizing that I really depend on him for help with the boys and around the house and I got the guts to ask him for more help. I decided to start with asking him to do the dishes since we used to split the cooking and dishes (the cooker does not clean). Somehow that got skewed over the last 4 months, but I figure as long as he's eating my cooking, he can help. Maybe he was just waiting for me to ask. He said that he would help.

Also in that vein, I was proud of myself for something else I did. I've mentioned we are going on that camping trip, but it conflicts with S8's soccer game on Sunday. We've been talking about how to get S8 to his game (2.5 hours away). One idea was for H to leave campout with S8 on Sunday am, but then I'd have to pack everything up by myself. I told him point blank, after putting in all the work to get ready for this camping trip, I am going to feel very resentful if you leave me alone on Sunday morning. I really need your help. He was fairly responsive to that.

Also told him that I was trying to pay more attention to my stress triggers so I can try and be calmer. I know one of his issues with me was that I freak out sometimes. And not in an anxiety way, just a stressed out way, and he doesn't react to that well. He takes it personally I think. It's interesting that I said that because I haven't given much thought to stress reduction before today. I felt myself getting agitated this morning and afternoon - both instances around trying to prepare meals, keep the boys out of trouble, and do it all by a certain time. In the am it's worse because I have to get myself ready too, and we have to remember the homework and the lunches and the library books and my computer and whatever else we are bringing to school that day.

Final thought: H is feeling better and now does not seem so open to me touching him, but he's still being nicer and we're talking about regular stuff like we used to. I hurt my toe today and he even said, "Sorry that you hurt your toe, that's a bummer." I'll take what I can get!

I freak out under stress sometimes as well, and my H hates it and doesn't know how to handle it. He also thinks that I cause a scene. I also seem to get easily aggitated when I get under stress and start rushing around. I'm glad you are starting to feel the triggers and pay attention to them more. That is all in line with improving yourself.

I hope that he listened to you about Sunday morning. I would hate to have to pack up by myself. Been there, done that. You feel so unappreciated.

Remember that if he is not letting you touch him, he may be starting to feel too comfortable. Give it a little bit of time. At least he seems nicer to you. I'd take being nice vs. being able to touch for my mental sanity!

H and I got into it a tiny bit this am... I think at the crux of some of our issues is that he feels like I don't listen to him. I won't call it an argument, but we got into it over S8's soccer shorts of all things. All the boys wear their game shorts to practice and I said S8 couldn't do that. H thinks S8 feels left out. I said I didn't want to wash them constantly, which was my only argument against him wearing the shorts.

Instead of saying, "Yeah, I know, it's a pain, but I think it's important" he just takes it as if I think his opinion doesn't matter - or that I just do what I want regardless of what he thinks - and then he gets defensive and hostile. Accuses me of arguing with him. But when I tried to say, "this is no big deal" he kept going. Who cares about the dumb shorts? I was perfectly willing to just let it go.

This is clearly part of the process that has to be addressed. It's his preconceived notion that I don't think what he says is valid, so the hair stands up and the claws come out over nothing. This has happened over and over again, and it really spoils anything good that we might have going.

Breakdown, does this sound familiar to you? Does it fit your pattern?

It's familiar in that the communication isn't quite happening, and that minor irritants lead you back into the bigger frustration of where your M is at. We also had a recurring argument about "it's always your way" that seemed to pop up when this kind of stuff would happen, and that's a tough cycle to break.

When we did retrouv, we really clicked when it came to explaining things to each other (the communication exercises). The problem was, neither of us ever had the patience to talk to the other in a way that was productive. The elephant in the room always seemed to get in the way. Once I started really thinking of "why" I wanted things a certain way, and tried to explain them patiently, things got considerably better.

My W, much like your H, said "communication isn't our problem" but in reality, it was, at least in part. For me, understanding how I feel, and why I feel it, and then communicating that really took some time. It sounds like that's similar for you two. Since you are getting it, and your H isn't, you might have to try to lead him when it comes to this stuff, at least initially. I know that when I started talking to my W directly, and with patience, she started to reciprocate.

Breakdown - I hear you. I'm also trying to learn to understand how I feel, why and communicate it properly. It's not second nature to stop and think about the why's but I think it's important to do.

After our shorts discussion this morning, I sent H an email offering an olive branch and letting him know I understood that he felt I was dismissing him. For some reason we always have this argument when it comes to clothes, and what is appropriate. I had this pair of shoes that he hated and said he wouldn't "be seen with me" if I wore them. I of course resented that he didn't like my shoes and wore them just to make him angry. (The shoes are gone now btw, even though I liked them).

Anyway, back to the email, I said that we needed to learn to talk and to listen so that we could have a discussion without it escalating into an argument. I don't know if he thinks it's ok to disagree. Like I said, I feel like he takes any disagreement personally, when all it is is a disagreement. He replied and said, "Fair enough," and he did admit that he felt that I was dismissive with him. So this all was a step in the right direction. I swear, learning how to handle disagreements must be at least half the battle.

When I got home he did as promised and washed all the dishes, which was so helpful, and I let him know that. We all had some cuddle time on the bed while we watched the baseball game.

But one thing out of sorts did happen: I found this email he had printed about revising his nutrition habits. My H isn't the healthiest eater in the world. No, he's not eating junk food but you're not exactly going to find him at the health food store. So I teased him a little about the email and asked him to let me know if he wanted me to change the groceries I was buying. He told me he's lost 10 lbs and I said, "Well that's just from starving yourself. But you do look good." Ugh, he got offended by that. I don't think he's trying to diet, I think it's from not eating dinner with us and being a little depressed. Then he got all huffy and said that I hadn't changed. Of course, I told him he looked good just the other day... I'm not sure if he was really upset or not, but it's good to know he's watching for the changes.

OMG This is EXACTLY how my H is. It is the most frustrating thing. My situation is different in that his problem is I never paid him any attention. But the result is the same. Even when it is obvious he still has feelings and of course misses me and the kids. Still won't come home. Won't try and avoids all conversation regarding any sort of reconciliation.

I wish I had some advice. You might ask him again in a different way. Maybe like... Did you think anymore about that weekend together?

I go through the same thing and this is when I get accused of "challenging" my H, and also when he says we are like night and day and have nothing in common. I think they feel rejected or that we think their opinions don't count. And it may feed into some insecurities since we both are educated, strong women. I am trying to learn how to admit and accept my H's opinion or thoughts, but tell him that I have a different opinion.

We also seem to be unable to disagree without escalation. I am trying to difuse some of that by staying calm and/or walking away. I've backslid on this once, which caused our blow out 2 weeks ago. Anytime I try to talk to H about the way we have discussions he dismisses it and says "we've never been able to talk". I think some of it is fear on his part. So, that's part of why we have so many unresolved issues.

Can you get another pair of shorts so that you don't have to wash every day? I get your point, since you are the one doing the wash and H is trying to impose something that creates more work for you.

The good new is that you are having some communication and your H is admitting how he feels, which helps you to change something.

Since you are getting it, and your H isn't, you might have to try to lead him when it comes to this stuff, at least initially.

And in the heat of the moment is never the time to do it. Dropping it when things start to escalate and then coming back to it when both people are calm and "the issue" is no longer an issue, is usually more helpful.