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Hey Arsene... Wanted to respond to your post from my thread on your sitch... because I think it works better here



I hear you Arsene, I really do. But I have to say... I was there... I got to look into her eyes while she was saying this... And I believe her still...

SO much of the "Believe nothing they say" mantra is dedicated to protecting the LBS' feelings, which is completely understandable.

What she told me didn't at all hurt my feelings or make me feel as if I'd DRIVEN her to ANYTHING. Again, maybe I'm being naive, but I'm still not convinced that the timing of the change from EA to PA impacts anything I've done or any of my future plans.



Arsene, I'm sorry to hear of the new development in your sitch... but (and I'm not trying to be coy here)... Remember the "Believe none of what she says" in your sitch.

And I want to be clear... I didn't believe everything my W was saying throughout the 6 hours we were together... I heard plenty of things that screamed "She's hurting inside and trying to show me this pain"... The numbness, the fact that my family had a huge amount to do with our lack of hope for a reconciliation, the "If you're dating... that's great..." statement...

I'm choosing to believe that when my W was talking about OM, she was actually trying to clear the air (mostly for her own conscience)... something that I see as at the very least a baby step in the right direction.

When you say "This here is looking more impossible every hour", I wonder if you're referring to your sitch or mine... But either way, I don't see EITHER of them as being even close to impossible.

Read SO many of the other "success" stories here, and see how much more dire many of them have been, yet still come back from the precipice... sometimes at the last possible moment.

We have to continue to have faith in ourselves and in our direction. As soon as we lose that, it's time to reevaluate our paths... For as long as you hold hope in your heart... The situation is NOT impossible.

Improbable? Maybe. Impossible? Hell No.



Forgive me for speaking out of turn here Starsky, but I think the changes we LBS' are making are SUPPOSED to not only help us... but a byproduct is they confuse the WAS... We're breaking unproductive patterns. Patterns our WAS have become used to and expect... so when those patterns change, there is bound to be confusion.

Hell, that confusion is a good sign in my eyes... It means that the WAS is still at least curious or interested in what's going on with the LBS. If it was TRULY and PERMANENTLY over in their eyes... There would be no room for confusion, because the changes wouldn't affect their thinking more than a "Good for LBS" or a "Who cares? I'm already moved on!".

As for a softening of the A? Well, I can't say I have any personal knowledge of that... But my W's OM situation has only been "oficially" out in the open air between us for a few days... We probably both assumed that the other knew, but now there's no more assumption. She admitted, I let her know that while I still love her, care about her, and miss her every day, I won't disrespect myself or her by continuing to be a part of her life while she's with OM... If he can make her happy... how could I look myself in the mirror knowing that MY presence in her life is causing her to remain unhappy? And how could I give my W the signal that I'm okay simply being there for her as a friend and H while she was stepping outside the bonds of her marriage?

It's something that's gone unsaid on my boards, but it's something I think about a whole lot... My W... and I dare say most WAW's that go into relationships with OP... the confusion in their minds is at least equal to ours, the LBS... and I also believe that for those of us who truly try to use this as an opportunity to better ourselves... well we're always going to be in better shape in the long run... because we're stuck in this hellish introspective nightmare while they're distracting themselves with a new R... We embrace our pain and try to use it for "good"... and that's not always the case when someone leaves a marriage and jumps into the arms of another for comfort and solace.

But I digress... My opinion is if you see signs of your W's A on the rocks... just smile inside and DO NOTHING. Know that time is on your side...

Now to practice what I preach!

Thanks for you words AT,

I've not been doing too good since my talk with W on Sunday. For some reasons, I thought I could do this but now I'm not so sure.

The fact that we were able to have such a good and (mostly) honest talk with no interruptions (other than her 2 cell phones ringing off the hook in the other room for a full 3 hours)and that for once I was able to STFU and listen to here and perhaps validate her (I said perhaps because I'm still not sure I got it right). The fact that it felt like old days and that we were able to laugh and cry and feel for one another, again. That she'd commented on how much she had enjoyed that talk and how much I had changed. All of this made me incredibly hopeful that R was possible one day.

OTOH, That fact that she says she's in love with OM. That she is happy now and wants to continue this way for now. That she asks me to let her go and move on to make this easier for her. That she disagrees with me standing for our marriage. That she'd actually been lying for the 2 years I thought we were trying to work things out, by still being in touch with OM. All of this makes me wonder if I'm doing the right thing by even standing. The pain I feel now, after nearly 5 months since her leaving is so much greater than anything I've felt since and I just don't know if I can take this.

I said I'd stick with my plan of action and try to be there for her as a friend but I don't know how to manage that knowing that she's in a serious relationship with OM while we are still married.

The thing is, I don't know how I can manage to stay in this country right now, without my W's sponsorship and I am very worried about D8 and what could happen to her if we divorced. Leaving the country could be an option but D8 would be devastated. Still now every so often she comes to my room to tell me she misses her mom. We hug and cuddle and I tell her she has to be strong and eventually she falls asleep.

It breaks my heart and it seems so senseless. All for a teenage fling which doesn't have a future, and that, according to what she says (seconds after telling me she's in love) she'd be fine if it ended. I wanted to tell her that if she'd be fine why not just end it then?? But instead I nodded and listened.

I know I need to get a hold of myself but I'm consumed by this and the feeling of despair seems to be getting worst.

Sorry about this. I just needed to get it out. I'll be fine. No matter what.

Hey Arsene, what an amazing post from AT! I read your comments on my thread and I am so sorry your hurting so much right now. From what you said, I believe you’re not giving up. BTW, I understand the “crying like a baby thing.” Believe me, I know, I have my moments. The cliche roller coaster term is SO true. You’re a much better man now Arsene, me too! We’ve gone through utter hell together and were still alive, we will be ok, we will make it. We ARE better people even though I wonder why? Why me? What did I do? I ask the Lord why I am being tested like this? Hang in there buddy, it’s alright.

Get it our Arsene, that's what were here for!

I am trying to imagine the monumental pain Arsene. I only had two BRIEF conversations with W and it made me miss her MORE THAN EVER. To spend the entire day together, the feeling of “old times” and then, BAM, 2X4! Unfortunately there's no way around it, we just have to go through it and we will be just fine brother.

The secret is to not just take them back just because their affair ended.... Because then your in a position where. You improved. You changed. They think in their mind you did it for them. So they see it as a lesson you were taught.

Allow them the chance to improve themselves , rebuild the trust and love and become a better partner.

Then you can both explain your boundaries and decide if this is the relationship for the both of you.

Full well knowing that if one crosses a boundary that it will be enforced.

Thanks Rough,

It's always comforting knowing you're around. I'm so happy for you that after all this time, things are moving a bit in your sitch and it seems like it might be positive. You're always saying how crap you are at this yet you've been so detached for so long and your DBing has been excellent. Good things are on their way for you mate.

CB, I know I shouldn't think about that yet, because it's so far from now (if ever) but I have thought about it a lot, and I hope I have the strength to do just that if and when the day comes.

I know that you are 110% right on this and I just wish she had chosen to take this time, for which she asked and which I granted, to work on herself instead of taking the easy way "forward" and fall into the arms of OM, who is just as flawed (actually certainly a he11 of lot more flawed) as I was when she left me. She told me then that she didn't want to come back to me because she was afraid we would fall in the same patterns yet she walked straight into the same pattern. The thing I am certain of is that when this relationship with OM goes south, he won't do a fraction of what I'm doing for her, and she knows that.

I guess all I can do now is stick with the plan and think about when and how I will be setting those boundaries I've been thinking about so much lately.

I'm going to share my experience with you.

When H n I were 5mos into all this mess, he was still with OW (he still is) and he truly believed that ending the affair was not going to make him want to reconcile. He was (and still is) afraid that he may go back into the same depression and cheat.

At the time, I was devastated. Grasping at any little sign that might say he has hope in coming back.

He may have had hope but it wasn't enough to make him want to come back anytime soon.

Things got worse (as if they couldn't get any worse). He vacationed with OW at a family spot that had meant a lot to me. I was so devastated but it was where I began to make changes for me. Not him. Since I discovered the trip my journey took on a better purpose. It was my growth.

Things I would've done differently, set more boundaries. It's because I didn't set enough boundaries that I hold resentment for things that happened recently and not during his affair.
EX.
We will not travel in Hs car (since I was always finding her things in there)
Drop off kids at the door and don't come in. (this would've avoided a lot of headaches but I was too scared I was pushing him away).

I hope my story helps.
BTW: Recently he said he thinks of coming back (this is new) but he continues to "talk" to OW.
Also, I still cry from time to time but it's healing and helps me detach.

There is an old saying that is tossed around Db and outside of here

What you allow is what will continue.


One of the beautiful things when you start to make long term goals again. It signifies to yourself that you have purpose.


And the saying Never be the third (wo)man through a door has just as much meaning here as in life.

It's something that's gone unsaid on my boards, but it's something I think about a whole lot... My W... and I dare say most WAW's that go into relationships with OP... the confusion in their minds is at least equal to ours, the LBS... and I also believe that for those of us who truly try to use this as an opportunity to better ourselves... well we're always going to be in better shape in the long run... because we're stuck in this hellish introspective nightmare while they're distracting themselves with a new R... We embrace our pain and try to use it for "good"... and that's not always the case when someone leaves a marriage and jumps into the arms of another for comfort and solace.


This is lovely insight AT.

Arsene, I am so sorry about your pain right now. But you seem to working through it amazingly well. I believe in you and know you are going to be more than alright.