Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers After 18 months - H is finally filing.

BM, NG - thanks for the support. It is during interactions like this that I question everything, even my sanity. It's crazy-making. The fight continued last night. I was so bad, the grief was too much and I said many things, way too many...

It started when H left me a message at 7pm asking how D4 felt. I got the message and texted back at 8:30PM after putting the kids to bed, saying D4 was fine:

H - Jesus KG!
KG - What seems to be the problem?
H - How insensitive can you be? I've been worried sick. Never mind.
KG - You left a message at 7pm... Was I supposed to read your mind from noon until then? If you were worried "sick" you could have called way before then. Never mind is exactly right.
I am going to ask u that next time you wake up depressed for something that has nothing to do with me that you don't take your frustrations out on me like you have done all day today. I am not your punching bag anymore. Call OW for that - she has now earned that right.

H - You are just rude. Another snide comment.
KG - I have received nothing but rudeness from you today and enough is enough.

H - This has everything to do with you. If you don't want to accept responsibility I can see why.
KG - Right, I forgot that everything wrong with your life is my fault.

H - No just the fact that you can't keep your word and you treat me like a second class parent. I would have told u about D4 right away.
KG - U don't even respond to my texts or messages, much less initiate any.
H - You alternate between being rude, indifferent and nice to me. Just pick one and stick to it.

KG - This morning I felt really bad when you shared that you felt unwelcome at your brother's and I tried to help you. And then u went off on me re. the custody thing, instead of acknowledging that perhaps we can interpret the agreement differently. Instead u immediately reverted to thinking the worst of me and attacking me as a person. Bully, I have no word, I don't want u to see your kids. Do you realize this was my #1 complaint in our M and the main reason I felt unloved and unappreciated for years? You first think the worst of me no matter what. Please tell me if you really believe I am the monster you tell me I am. Would u have fallen in love with me if I was? And why do others don't see that monster? Is everyone blind except u? I have learned to take responsibility for my faults but to stop taking the blame for yours. So in that spirit, I apologize for my snide comment about OW. It was out of line and I said it just to be spiteful. Everything else today I stand by what I have said.

H - I understand. I don't think you ever treated anybody as harshly as you treated me...So yes, I do have my doubts. And yes I can understand why others don't see it. I am sometimes surprised that you're not more understanding of my skepticism toward you. I think it's perfectly normal for what I've been thru with you.I appreciate that u were nice to me this morning. I had a tough day yesterday and I know you can empathize. As for D5, I think the agreement is very clear so I don't see how it could be interpreted any other way. In such a case I can't think of any other reason for you being so headstrong about it. I want to have equal responsibility, I've been very clear about it and I just wished you'd agree. I'm going to keep trying but its hard when you dump on my efforts, specially after dumping on me for not trying. I just want to be treated fairly and I've never felt that from you. Thank u for trying to explain. I just don't buy it because next week it will be something different. I'm sorry I feel that way. I've just been burned too many times.

KG - That is unfortunate but it's your choice. We all have to live with ours.

H - As for feeling like I thought the worst of you, I think that is obvious too. 9 out of 10 times when you'd tell me you were not mad, u later admitted u were. It was a vicious cycle and it still happens today. I'm very happy with my choices. I get to live without constant anger around me and my kids are constantly in a happy, loving and healthy environment. Everything else is gravy.

KG - It sounds good on paper. But u were the one who brought his anger into my life today, like you have done many other days. So if you are happy, u really hide it well from me and others who truly love you. Sorry, I don't buy it. Just being honest.
H - The people that really know me comment on how much happier I am. And I agree. Everybody else either is upset with me for my decision to stay out of my marriage or doesn't spend enough time with me to actually know.

KG - Then I am happy for you, H.

H - And yes, when my rights are being trampled on, I will get angry with you. I think the fact that I stand up to you now makes it appear that I'm more unhappy. I interpret more as me now expressing myself more clearly instead of letting you walk over me. I could probably be better at this, so I'll try harder.

KG - Thanks for saying that. U keep saying you will try but u just keep getting angry. So I am skeptical as well. Until you let go of your resentment we won't be able to co-parent, which is my only interest now.

H - That was quite passive-aggressive. My displeasure with you isn't made up or in my head. It's from stuff you do.

KG - I am being honest. U have admitted that u get angry when u feel mistreated. And I totally relate to that because I used to say the same to you about my anger.
H - My problem is that you say I "feel" mistreated. I think by anybody's standards except yours, I 'have" been mistreated.

KG - I know. I used to feel and say the same to you. Yet you never validated my feelings. You always said I "felt" unloved but wasn't. And you still cannot validate any of my feelings just because "you just don't buy it." Your anger towards me is completely valid. Mine never was.

H - I tried to show you love everyday without much in return. I tried to get you to open your eyes and see that. So yes, I think you never really saw me and it was in your head. Which is why we won't ever agree on this topic.

KG - OK... I guess when someone calls you crazy there is no more to add and you just did. :-(
H - I am not saying it to be mean. That is what happened.

KG - Talk about a total lack of validation - I was crazy, I imagined every feeling of hurt. In three words, you were perfect.
H _ I wasn't, but you can never blame me for not showing you love. I wanted this to work every day, not just at crisis points.

KG - I agree that you tried to show me love everyday. But sometimes (many times) that was not the way I needed to be loved. And I felt unloved. And guess what? the same happened to you. I also tried to show you my love in the way I thought you needed it. In a limited and imperfect way, but that was not the way you needed it and you also felt unloved. Too bad you cannot see it or are unwilling to accept it. Because that would imply that maybe we both screwed up and that maybe we could learn to communicate better and heal and feel loved and appreciated by each other, And maybe turn things around... But you have gone too far down your path and there is no conceivable way back for you. So it's easier to just dump it all on me. :-(

---

That's my soap opera... I hate myself for reverting back to this bad dynamic and it validates him. He still sees me as a monster. I am so depressed and disappointed in myself.

(((((((KG)))))))

first do NOT be disappointed in yourself. From an outside point of view it seems like the conversation opened up some honest feelings. or have these things been said before already?

up until now to be honest, i have not actually heard what is it is from H that forced him to leave. it has all been speculation from my part because i realized what i had become. At least you are having the conversation...that has to be a positive, no matter what happens....? He seems to have expressed some of his hurt and fear and doubt...does that imply that he has at least been noticing your your changes and because of his fear is trying to put it down to you reacting to crisis only and it not being a genuine change? its an opportunity to prove to yourself that your changes have rooted. His own fears and doubts are his. not yours.

you know i am not expert, vet or wise one, but those are some initial thoughts. please do not be this hard on yourself.

And i am glad D4 is feeling better.

you are beautiful KG.

(((( ))))

That sounds like a good conversation to me; you both had opportunities to clarify what you were hearing and correct. Don't be hard on yourself. Just keep going.

H sent me a text a couple of hrs. ago:

"I have been thinking about yesterday... thinking about my attitude...thinking about our interactions.
I'm sorry if I hurt you. It was not my intent at all. I don't want it to come out that way.
I think the best thing we can do moving forward is to make an agreement to not bring up the past. It's so hurtful for both of us. Whaddya think?"

I am digesting it...

a) Part of me would like to ask to expand on his thoughts about what happened yesterday and our interactions in general. At this point in our R I am completely clueless of what he could be thinking that prompted him to apologize.

b) Part of me would like to say that I don't want to just brush everything off like nothing matters because then we will never improve our R, even if just for co-parenting our kids. And that I feel he just wants to run away or avoid our issues, like in the past (like when he left).

c) And part of me would just like to reply with one word: "Sure."

Any thoughts or comments are welcome and appreciated.

Oh, and I forgot to add that I am strongly inclining for option C...

C

If he can let it go and you can let it go, start from there. As long as he continues to be the victim, nothing will improve.

I get that he's been hurt and doesn't trust you to not hurt him again but he seems unwilling to look at his part in the M problems. Without self-awareness people don't change.

Create a co-parenting R from where you are today.

KG,
really rushed but...
Just wanted to let you know how much it helps to hear that others have interactions like this.

I know just what you mean when you say:

"It is during interactions like this that I question everything, even my sanity. It's crazy-making. The fight continued last night. I was so bad, the grief was too much and I said many things, way too many..."

Round and round and round we go. There seems to be NO POINT trying to discuss things... but then, often H will come back with an apology a day or two later.
So maybe something does get through - who knows.

What I am sure about is how much it helps to hear the detail of such conversations from someone else - makes me realise that I'm not going crazy in this.

Mind you, I find it mind-boggling that our H's spout the same sort of stuff - almost verbatim.

Best, NLW

A lot of the marriage gurus recommend not focusing on past/problems at all when trying to R... not to sweep under the rug but to build trust and get back to a place of strength before dealing with the issues - then they become much easier to deal with.

I have been reading your thread and I feel like we have similar dynamics in our Ms. It seems clear from that text exchange that there are still feelings between you two.

Just read your conversation you had with H and I almost felt like I was listening to me and my H. I could envision some of those same sentences coming out of his mouth... and mine.

Just know that you're not the only one that had a M like this. It's like to perfectly good people get into a perfectly bad situation without even knowing that it's happening.

I agree very much with RegretfulLA, if you can at this point, try to build trust. The way I see it, if they can see that you really aren't crazy like they once thought you were and that you really have made changes and they have rooted, like busting said. Their thoughts about you will change. Whether that means you ever get back together, who knows. But it will definitely give them something to think about. Maybe not right now but in time it will.

I really feel for you and I'm sorry you had to go through such a hard conversation.

KG----

i think option C.

Move forward from here. This is very positive for your children and you both.

((((( ))))