Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers What should I do? Which technique to use?

I have to agree with sandi. You two aren't married, so she sees you as a boyfriend that she can break up with. After all, you don't have any real "commitment". I can bet though that when you decide to call it off and kick her @$$ out of your home she'll come running back.

sandi2, wow, that took me off guard. I do understand that I can't bust a divorce in this instance, I just thought I could still save a relationship.

I've already thought about this stuff, wondering if I'm just screwing myself over emotionally and financially recently. If I go home tonight and tell her that I've thought about things and if this isn't going anywhere, if she doesn't love me, if she doesn't want to be there then she needs to move out (be it tomorrow or by the weekend) then at this moment she'll be homeless; that is a hard thing to face living with.

How do I say that?

And, just wondering, what if there is a future here if I do make changes? If I give an ultimatum tonight or anytime this week doesn't that bring a solid end to that future? In DR it says not to give ultimatums.

Thanks, I'm just trying to think things through....and those nasty emotions get in the way.

And maybe you can, but she does have a point that you're trying to save an R that never really got off the ground to begin with. When you say "As usual, things were great at first, plenty of chemistry and we both couldn't wait to see the other." You're basically talking about the release of dopamine into the system, that's what gives us those "puppy love" feelings early in the R. It lasts anywhere from a few weeks to 6 months and many relationships end after that phase is over and reality sets in. It takes years for a lasting R to build, if one falls apart in months then it could very well be a house of cards.



You can give her more time if you're concerned about putting her out. A month should be ample time for her to make other arrangements.



If you want to make it work, then no ultimatums. If you're moving on then DB no longer applies to the R.

"How do I say that?"

Like this... "I've thought about things and if this isn't going anywhere, if she doesn't love me, if she doesn't want to be there then she needs to move out"

She's not thinking about you after all and how you feel. She's being selfish and rude to you because she thinks you're not going to have the b@ll$ to do anything to her.

I'm still not sure what to do. The logical part of me says to just end it, to get her and everybody out of my house and my life ASAP. The emotional part of me says to give it a chance, to take responsibility for the wrongs I committed in the past few months, and make the changes necessary to save the R. I have one friend who told me an option is to set an internal deadline for myself, whatever it is, if I don't see improvement by that date then I tell her to get out...I might go that route.

Since I've been wanting to DB this R I'm going to put down some goals. If anybody has anything to say about them I'm open to hearing, otherwise, this is just going to end up being a bit of my journaling so that I'm not risking having stuff laying around the house.


Broad Goals

1. Spend quality time together.
2. Be intimate.
3. No fighting.



Action Goals

1. Quality time.

a. Go on dates, just the two of us, at least twice a month.
b. Go for rides/walks with and without the kids.
c. Spend at least 15 mins per day talking about our day, fears, hopes, and dreams.

2. Intimacy.

a. Hug and kiss daily.
b. Flirt and cuddle.
c. Make love 2-3 times per week.

3. Getting along.

a. Let small things slide.
b. No raised voices, rude comments, or sarcastic remarks.
c. Openly share concerns and be understanding when the other expresses their feelings.



What Will I Be Doing?

1. Quality time.

a. I will be relaxed and upbeat in her presence.
b. I will look forward to whatever time we do have together and enjoy it, no matter what we are doing.
c. I will be her friend and will be supportive of her.
d. I will not complain about how little time we spend together.
e. I will respect her desire to spend some time alone, with friends, or with family without me.

2. Intimacy.

a. Currently, I will respect her desire not to be touched by me at all.
b. I will be her friend and only make contact as I might with a friend.
c. I will give loving, non-sexual, touch.
d. I will not complain about frequency of sex.
e. I will not pursue or push her for sex.
f. I will appreciate any love making as a gift given.

3. Getting along.

a. I will let small things slide.
b. I will not yell or raise my voice.
c. I will listen to, and adjust, the tone of my voice.
d. I will not glare, stare, huff, or sigh.
e. I will leave and calm down if necessary.
f. I will listen to her rather than waiting for my turn to talk.



First Signs – Baby Steps


1. Quality time.

a. She will tell me about her day and ask me about my day.
b. She will linger in a room with me.
c. She will text/call me.
d. She will be home earlier when I have a short night at work.

2. Intimacy.

a. She will not get angry at my touch.
b. She will sit closer to me and sleep closer to me.
c. She will touch me in a friendly manner.
d. She will initiate touch with me by touching my arm when we pass each other.

3. Getting along.

a. She will stop prefacing statements with, “I don't want to fight” or “without fighting”.
b. She will let small things slide without snapping at me.
c. She will not be snide or sarcastic with me.
d. She will be more relaxed in my presence and perhaps smile.

" The logical part of me says to just end it, to get her and everybody out of my house and my life ASAP. "

This is the best way in your sitch. You're not married after all and she was married twice before. She hasn't learned anything from her previous relationships that you don't switch partners because you're unhappy for a time.

" to take responsibility for the wrongs I committed in the past few months, and make the changes necessary to save the R."

Correct me if I'm wrong but she was plenty wrong also correct? And she continues to treat you like crap even though you allowed her family to come in to live with you. In your case, being a doormat isn't going to work because there's no commitment holding you two together.

I mean is there anything that the two of you share? Bank accounts, mortgage, etc.?

I do feel that she has done wrong in the past few months as well.

No, we do not have any shared anything.

I was a bear in many respects but I did give and give with housing, food, and transportation. I only became a doormat verbally and attitude wise since Sat night.

I've threatened before to kick them out and she just says, "fine, I'll go" or "I'll just need until the end of the week". Then I back down because emotionally I really didn't want her to go.

I guess a 180 of sorts would be to calmly tell her that she's right, it's over, and she needs to move out by X day.

I don't want to be rash so I'm not going to do it tonight, I need to sleep on it.

Your goals sound pretty good. But going back and reading through your thread again, a few things jump out. You've gotten the ILYBINILWY talk already, and you've been told she wants space, and most recently you've been told she doesn't want to be touched. She's been pretty clear in what she wants, and it's not you for now. I know how much that hurts to hear because I'm in the middle of it in my own sitch. All that might turn her back at this point is time and space, so what you have to do is detach, GAL and give her what she's asking for.

I'm still lost and confused so I haven't given an ultimatum or anything. "If you don't know how to act, don't act.", right? I've made my goals and I'm practicing LRT/180's for the moment. I figure I can have that internal deadline and if I don't see change then I can take a different action; I need to be patient.

Right, I've gotten the ILYBINILWY talk, needing space and break, not wanting to be touched and I've taken that into consideration with beginning LRT. LRT isn't about being cold, rude, or angry from what I've read in DR and on other posts, even a post I saw from Michelle where she says it's about being detached but loving, being caring but not overly enthusiastic.

Since we are still living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed I have to walk a fine line. I don't do the obvious stuff like saying ILY, calling/texting, begging, pleading, crying, or buying gifts. I act happy/content with how things are while we are in the house together, I'm friendly when she speaks to me, I help out here and there when asked, and when I can help out with the kids without being asked I do.

My goals are there so that as I continue to practice LRT (I am having trouble with emotionally detaching, with not wondering what she is up to, but I don't ask questions) and perform small 180's that I'll see the small changes when they begin to occur.

Feel free to comment but I just need to journal a bit here, get the stuff down so I can organize my thoughts.

Last night about 9:45pm, 15 mins before I leave work, she texts me and asks if I can clean up the kitchen from dinner because the kids were acting crazy with an "I'm sorry" in it. I wait until 10pmish to respond with "Yeah". A few mins later I get a text asking if I can bring up the babies medicine when I get home with another "I'm sorry" and I wait a bit to respond, because I'm closing up, and say yes.

I get home and everybody is asleep already. I change, grab a little something to eat, clean up the kitchen and grab the clean laundry to take up. I hop on the computer quick and while I'm typing to check these boards the history shows that the last things looked up before me were poems about forgiveness. I read one that is in the history and it's about a woman saying mean things to her husband, then when she says to him that they were just words and things will heal, that they just met and she doesn't want to lose her husband, that she loves him, he finally turns back and says he still loves her. I then head upstairs and put away the laundry away, then head to bed.

When I climb in the bed I make sure to hug the edge with my back to her. I fall asleep and after awhile (I didn't look at the time) I wake up to the baby and get her to give her a bottle to get her back to sleep. She wakes up too so I let her take over and fall back asleep. I'm in and out of it a bit and realize at some point she put the baby back in the crib but she's awake on her phone texting or on FB. Now, through all of this I've kept my distance from her, making sure I don't touch her at all and I think I drift off again. I wake again though (no idea how long I might have been out) and she's still on her phone and she says, "sorry, I just can't sleep". I reply drowsily that "I'm just laying here." She says, "oh, you're asleep, sorry, I just can't sleep."

My back still to her, hugging the edge of the bed, I just bury my head and try to sleep. I refuse to console her or ask what's wrong because of LRT, whatever is keeping her up for a change it isn't me.

If the baby wakes up again at all I don't and she must have taken care of the baby. I wake up needing to use the bathroom, I'm still on the edge of the bed and SHE is almost on top of me. She's right there, right next to me, but not touching, just almost touching.

I use the restroom and carefully lay back down. Her alarm goes off a few mins later and she moves and ends up making contact with me briefly by bumping me with her elbow and foot. She lays there a few mins (she's still sick) and then checks her phone again, texts or something, and gets up. She's getting clothes for the two older children and the baby wakes. I get the baby and lay back down with her. She gets the other kids up to get ready for school. While she's trying to get them ready she's texting away and then brings in clothes for the baby.

She doesn't ask me to, I just go ahead and change the babies diaper and get her dressed. When she's got the other kids ready they're heading downstairs and she asks if I'm coming down or staying in bed. I tell her I'll bring the baby down which I do, put her in her walker, and head back to bed.

I'm out again until my alarm goes off and at first I'm surprised she hadn't come to lay back down (which she usually does) but I realize it's probably because she just didn't want to lay back down with me; I can hear her coughing downstairs but I don't ask her how she is feeling anymore. I do some meditation and then get in the shower. I'm dressed and smelling good when I head downstairs.

There she is on the computer and I notice she's going through her FB friends list. I don't stare or go over, I just say "hey" and she says "hey" and I go about my business of getting ready. She gets on the phone and I hear her talking about changing the babies doctor appointment time for today. She makes another call as she's heading upstairs, I just get my lunch and breakfast ready.

***Background info before next part:
Steve is the guy I accused her of cheating with. She and he told me that nothing is going on between them, they've just been good friends for longer than she's known me. All three of us friends on FB and I've met the guy. Even Sat night when I got the ILYBINILWY talk she said that he, and others, are friends for a reason. Many have told her that she's attractive but she knows they just want sex and nothing more, that's why they're just friends and will remain that way.***

I'm still in the kitchen when she comes downstairs. When she reaches the bottom she says, "I just wanted to let you know that Steve is going to delete you off of Facebook. I don't know why, I just wanted to tell you so you didn't think something else is going on. He already deleted me, he's keeping the kids on, just deleting you and me."

Me: "Okay, sorry to hear that."
She shrugs it off and goes sit on the couch and turn on the TV.
Me: "Thanks for telling me."
Her: "Yea, just didn't want you thinking it was something else."
Me: Shrugging, "I'm not going to worry about it."
Her: "I wish people would grow up and stop acting like kids."

I don't say anything else, just get my breakfast and sit on the couch to eat. She's texting and I'm just eating and watching TV. Dog goes to pee in the house and I stop him and put him outside. He starts to bark and I say, "I hear him, just want to leave him out for a min" (because I wanted a little punishment in it) and she says, "that's not why I huffed."

I never even heard her huff and didn't comment. Dog barks more and she says that I should let him in before the neighbor calls the cops, so I just do it. It's really raining now so I can't take the motorcycle, I ask her for a ride and she says yes but asks how I'm getting home. I say, "get picked up" and she says, "sorry, it's only Tue" because our schedules are weird and she forgot that she'd just need to pick me up after 10pm tonight. I say, "that's ok".

I finish up breakfast and (the last night I noticed that the kids had left garbage on the floor again and dirty cups were laying around) I notice that the cups had been picked up and all but one piece of trash. I grab the last remaining piece of trash saying, "thanks for getting the trash there, sorry I didn't get it last night, I was just tired". She doesn't respond to me at all.

I go brush my teeth, and tell her I'm ready to go when she is. She gets up and when she sees how hard it's raining we grab umbrellas. When we get in the car she says it's a good thing it's raining because Steve was supposed to be working nearby (house construction) and if he had she would have gone and punched him in the face.

I ask if they're fighting and she says (rude tone now) that they must be if she wants to punch him in the face and he wouldn't delete her off of FB for no reason. I just say in a kind tone, "I'm sorry to hear that. I know it [censored] to fight with a friend." She says (calm tone now), "yea, one of my best friends." I'm done, nothing else to say. She comments on the rain and we agree that it's good it wasn't like that when she took the kids to school and she hopes it lets up before the babies doctor appointment. As we pass the school she tells me there was an accident nearby a couple of days ago. Just normal chit-chat.

I have to run into the bank and as soon as I'm out of the car she's texting until I get back in. We take the short drive to my workplace. When we get there I ask if she wants the big umbrella and she says yes please so I leave it. I'm going to get out and say, "hope it goes well with *baby* at the doctor and have a fun night at class." She doesn't respond.

I get my stuff from the back seat and lean in and say, "have a good day." She's texting, glances up, and mumbles something I believe to be "you too".

I checked FB because I was curious, Steve hasn't deleted or unfriended me on FB. Her FB still shows her as in a relationship but she isn't friends with Steve anymore. Now, maybe she's changed some of her privacy settings and I can't see some of her posts anymore, no way for me to know. I also don't know if she's still showing herself as in a relationship just so the kids don't ask questions.



Are we still really in a relationship?

Was the poem about me or Steve?

Was she up in the middle of the night and this morning fighting with Steve?

Why did she warn me about Steve? Is she just scared that I'll boot her out right away? Or does she still consider us a couple and doesn't want anymore grief?

Why did she pick up the trash?

Why is she apologizing so much?