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My mom is convinced there is something going on between them. I doubt that. I just don't like that my H likes her more than me. It sounds very childish. But I can't help being a bit jealous. I can see why my H would have been irate about OM1. At the time I liked him more than I liked my H.

Hopeful, I'm going to disagree with you on this one.




The assumption you are making in these statements is that someone else actions can control your feelings. One of the things I've learned is that we control ourselves. If someone else is controlling you, it's because you let them.

I'm not saying your H or LA's H is making the right choices any more than I'm saying my W hanging out with guys drinking is ok, but my jealousy and insecurity come from a different place....I had it long before I met my W.

It's very easy to fall into this trap. Life is hard. M is hard. The first 6 months of any relationship is awesome! There's no serious crap to deal with...there's no bills, there's no kids, there's no tension, there's none of the hard stuff. And frankly, even when there is hard stuff, we gloss over it and see all the positives. That's why you can wait out affairs. Once the honeymoon is over and reality sets in, we all seem like much better options.

I don't think your H likes her more than you....but he can talk to her without thinking of the pain and the choices to come, without trying to figure out what he's going to do tomorrow.

I've read it so many times so I'll say it here for your benefit....make yourself the better choice. This is where being fun, lighthearted, and flirty can really help. It doesn't have to be so serious all the time. I don't say this flippantly....it's extremely hard for me to be that way....but it is so rewarding (and fun!).

It's interesting. My H doesn't like flirty. It makes him uncomfortable for some reason. I can't see that working because it never worked when things were good. Any idea why he might not have liked that? Anyway...

This afternoon and evening I just went about my business in a pretty cheerful way. It's nice to get home so early from work - before 4, groceries in hand. Walked the dogs, cleaned up. Left H pretty much alone but I was in a good mood so things went smoothly.

At dinner time, I asked him if he was joining us and he politely said no. But he wandered into the kitchen when the boys and I were about halfway done. I made something new (a tomato seafood thing) and there was still some on the stove. Offered him some. He said no. 2 minutes later he's tasting it. One minute later he's got a bowl and is standing in the kitchen behind us eating it. Before you know it, he's finished off what was in the pan and what S8 and S6 didn't eat.

Although he didn't sit at the table, he ate in the same room with us, and I think that's a first. He did say he liked it (when I asked).

Made me realize that maybe our little chat last night is seeping in - unconsciously or consciously... I have to learn to expect a lot less at once and be a lot more patient...

I honestly don't think there's anything going on between my H and the neighbor. Even if she were interested in him, he prides himself so highly on his moral character that I don't think he could bring himself to do it. I don't think I've mentioned this on this board before, but back in Dec we had a HUGE fight, and he packed a bag and walked out. Next day I looked at his phone and he'd texted some woman asking her if she was free and by the text it was clear that he'd seen her before.

When I challenged him on it, he said she was a "massage therapist." I've never met a massage therapist who takes clients at midnight, but that was his story. Anyway, he said that he drove around for 2 hours that night and ultimately decided not to go. When I pressed him further he said that the first time she offered him a happy ending and he said no. I am not sure this is the real story.

I'm not an expert in this area, but I'll share some of my own screwed up thoughts.

One of my W's big complaints over the years was that I wasn't the aggressor when it came to ML. When we finally talked thru it (which only took us 13 years or so ), what we found was that W felt attractive when I pursued, and I didn't pursue because I didn't want W to think that was how I thought of her. I wanted her to understand that who she was was more important than the act of sex. This stemmed from my insecurity and fear of loss. In hindsight, seems pretty dumb, but your H could have something in the back of his head that is similar.

And again, I'm no expert, but maybe what you think is flirty, he doesn't, so maybe it's just a question of figuring out what works. It's a really foreign place for me to go, but I really just try to be fun and happy, and see where it takes me....and maybe that's what you should try. Skip the flirty part for now, at least the intentional part.

Oh, and the massage thing I find really odd.

But I also find it odd that you are checking his phone and then confronting him on things. That is the opposite of giving him space.

Breakdown, you are right. We are the ones that control our emotions and I'm doing a pretty crappy job of it right now. You are also right that after the "new" wears off, the same unresolved issues arise.

LA, it sounds like a little bit of a better night. I hope that the talk really does help you in the long run.

So if he stepped out of the marriage would that be a deal breaker for you ?

Or just something else you both would need to work on.

Just to clarify - the thing with the massage therapist/hooker/whatever happened back in December, way before our bomb. I wanted to see where he'd been the night he walked out.

If he stepped out of the marriage it would not necessarily be a dealbreaker. Part of the reason I'm having such a hard time understanding his pain here is because we don't have the same view about infidelity. But I'm working on seeing it his way, because ultimately it's his view that matters if I want to stay here.

I agree w you Breakdown, there definitely was some holdback around sex from H in our early years. I would guess his thoughts were the same as yours in a way, but also he had a lot of trouble really letting go and being intimate. Intimacy has been a huge problem for us, but like I said, we're more intimate now than ever. He does not realize this.

We had a 20 minute cuddle this am. It was nice. He settled into it but didn't reciprocate.

Back on the roller coaster tonight...
H said he didn't want me to come in the bed any more... of course I can respect his wishes and won't do that any more.

But it led to a larger discussion about the R. We've been having a lot of those. I got so upset at the end of it that I couldn't deal with the kids or eat or anything. Finally I just told him, I've been trying as hard as I can with you and nothing seems to be working. I just don't know how to be with you. Sobbing of course.

I know it's complete opposite of DB but I'm in such a weird position. I honestly think going dark with him would reinforce to him that I don't care about him. And that is his fear here.

Because he has a narrative to explain any positive steps that I take, I can't seem to make any lasting headway or impact. He said that my efforts to save the M were just trying to save face - that I didn't want our M to end like this. Well who in the world asks for their spouse to D them? Of course I don't want our M to end like this or in any other way.

I just feel like he has a nit pick or explanation or counterargument for anything that I do. It's kind of always been this way with him. When we get into the R talks, and I tell him that I was unhappy, he says it's revisionist history because I didn't seem so unhappy and I never said anything. On the other hand, he says I was angry all the time so being angry at him didn't count because I was angry at everything. And now he can also say, "Well, I don't trust anything you do or say."

I still haven't heard him say, "I know I played a part in our M getting to this point." Maybe he never will.

He says I wasn't contrite enough when we went to MC those few times in July. I should have been more sorry. I had a lot of anger I needed to get out first. But I'm just making up the anger as an excuse not to be sorry. Or I'm not justified in being angry with him because he did this and that and this and that.

I just feel like I can't do anything right with him and no matter what I do, I lose.

Help me please.