That is scary as to where it might lead. Concentrating on myself has lead me to question this marriage. I have kids though so I am in this for the long hall.
Yesterday my wife was really sick. As sick as I have ever seen her. My daughter has a soccer tournament for the weekend a few hours away so I stayed home to do all the laundry and also to take care of my wife. (Make her soup, tea, get her a cold towel). After I had the kids in bed she said she wanted company so I lied next to her and she reached over and held my hand. First physical contact initiated by her since this started but I realized it might just be because of me taking care of everything for the day. Did not read anything into it.
When my W first talked about separating she told me that she wanted time apart. She was going to visit relatives but she has not made plans for the trip yet so this morning when she told me that she was still feeling sick but wanted to go on the trip (Friday to Monday) I told her it might be a good opportunity for us to have the time apart she wanted while she stayed home and got better. She then walked up to me and and gave me a hug and said she did not want to be apart from me and asked me to not hurt her again. I told her I was ashamed of the way I treated her and it would not happen again. She is now going on this trip with me and our kids.
Kind of confused right now but I guess she saw me really GAL and DETACHING which kept me sane and gave me my self respect back. I do love my wife and family and maybe this will all work out. DR/DB and this board really made a difference. Head kind if spinning right now as I take a moment from packing to write this. This is a crazy roller coaster.
Would love to work to the point where we are in MC together but just going to chill for the weekend.
"After I had the kids in bed she said she wanted company so I lied next to her and she reached over and held my hand. First physical contact initiated by her since this started but I realized it might just be because of me taking care of everything for the day. Did not read anything into it."
"She then walked up to me and and gave me a hug and said she did not want to be apart from me and asked me to not hurt her again."
Wow Sam, congrats! These are more than baby steps, they are significant leaps forward and you should celebrate them to yourself. But remember what Michele says in her books and don't get overly enthusiastic or assume everything is "back to normal". Keep up with the 180's and hold yourself back a bit, but remain available. Let her come to you. I can't remember who said this, but it's like feeding a squirrel- hold perfectly still and it'll come take the food out of your hand but make even the tiniest movement and it scurries away and it may be quite some time before it comes back. So take your time, stick with the 180's (stick with them forever) and let your wife keep making the moves towards you. Be there for her, but don't try to rush or push her.
Hi AnotherStander - I have read your posts - I think at the core we are going through the same thing, trying to keep a wife from walking away. I wish you the best with your situation. Hang in there man. Hope you are stronger then me. Had some tough days lately.
Thank you for the kind words!! And I doubt I am stronger than you, this experience has taught me that I'm not very strong at all. I had almost a total mental breakdown at one point and have been on med's for it since that point. Unfortunately my W has signed a lease and will more than likely be out of the house in 2-3 weeks, that's where my patience (not my strong suit) will really be tested.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
I want to say them to my wife but they did not get a response, or worse I got a glared at, so I stopped.
Exactly, that's because she's convinced herself that she is not in love with you. So whenever you say it to her you're basically telling her "we want two different things- I love you but you don't love me". She will perceive it as you applying pressure to her rather than giving her space. But if you show her love through the 5 languages that will be appreciated even if she doesn't outwardly say so. Give it time and watch for small signs of improvement.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
I will not stop saying them to the kids.
Good, they need to hear it now more than ever. You need to be the calm in the storm, the lighthouse seen through stormy seas for your kids. Because they are definitely in the middle of this too. Many people assume that this is all about husband/ wife and the kids are just distant participants, but kids can really be hurt by this and need reassurances that they're not the problem (they will blame themselves) and that regardless of what happens they are valued and deeply loved.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
The scary thing is that I am seeing a side of her that is starting to make me questions things. The reasons that I have really loved her have come in to question. I always trusted her 100% but after the EA that she wanted to turn into a real affair and got turned down that has been hard.
This is a normal part of the grieving process. You may get angry at her and question your love for her, but just give it time and you'll resolve these issues in your mind. You're going to go through a range of emotions, don't get caught up in any particular one, just let them roll. Remember that there's a reason she sought out an EA, don't focus on the EA itself, focus on your 180's. If you carry out your 180's properly you take away her need for an EA and turn her back to you. If and when you reconcile you're going to have a lot of work to do to resolve trust issues, and you'll probably want to seek out MC for this. But that's a later step.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
She has never been a good housekeeper but now she has really let everything go. And because the house is a mess she will not let the kids have friends over so they suffer.
Take it over yourself, that's what I did. And now our house stays clean all the time instead of just once every 2 weeks! I work on it about 30 minutes each day and it's done. I also took over the laundry and it gets done one day a week instead of (literally) never being done when my wife did it.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
Now I am some horrible person that ruined her wedding day because all she remembers is the argument and not the reason for it. I think in any marriage you could take snapshots of moments, string them together, leave out the other side, and make someone look horrible.
Absolutely. She's rewriting history, a pretty typical action by WAW's. Your response should be "I'm sorry you feel that way, sounds like you're still upset about it even now." Validate her feelings without agreeing with her. It'll immediately diffuse the situation.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
The sad thing is that this threatened separation/divorce really woke something in me. She was right in that I needed to change. I realize that I was not a good husband. I love the new me. I love what I have become and what I am becoming. There is so much more to life then I ever imagine.
Amen brother, it is a spiritual awakening and I know EXACTLY what you mean because I'm there too. Our MC called it "dying to self and being reborn to serve others". The problem is that now we've become the husbands our wives always wanted, they're skeptical that it's real. They think we're doing it just to get them back and then will revert to our old ways. That's why it takes time, they've got to see we're permanently changed.
Thanks AnotherStander for your kind words and amazing advice. It has been well received. You are more insightful in this than I am!
I am sorry to hear that your wife is moving out. Hopefully that is just part of the healing process and it allows you to work things out. I would have a hard time with it though and my thoughts are with you. I too felt like I was going to have a mental breakdown and I almost went on meds too. I went from 174 to 165 pounds pretty quickly and was forcing myself to eat but the hard part was sleeping. I had nightmares every night and they all were about me failing my family. Don't have to be Freud to connect the dots there. I am down to a one or two bad nights a week now. But not eating and not sleeping was pushing me over the edge. Hang in there. I read that you were looking in to the retrouvaille. If you go please let me know how it works out. Wishing you the best.
I realized that I was taking a big step back and falling into my negativity and worrying to much about how my wife was behaving instead of focusing on myself and the changes I need to make. Those negative thoughts will sink the ship if they take over and I am back to working on myself. Hopefully for good this time. Just have to realize that both me and my wife will have good days and bad days. Just have to keep working towards that better future and it starts with me. One person if they change themselves can change things. That is really starting to sink in now.
You are right in that my wife's comments are more then baby steps or even leaps forward. What she has said is that she is willing to trust me again and does not want to get hurt. She is basically leaping off of a cliff and is trusting me to catch her. She is a great lady and I am amazingly fortunate to have this opportunity. More reason for me to follow Mr Bond's advice and redouble my efforts and focus on the changes I need to make, make them stick and be permanent.
It was great to see my wife open up. That was the person that I have loved. She showed how what a loving, forgiving and caring person she is. I relaxed on the trip and worked on getting back to being positive. She was great. She touched me a few times and smiled at me a few time. Small things. But so important. Nothing prettier in this world to me then my wife smiling. But I still have a lot of work to do. It is crazy how different men and women can be but I am getting better at seeing her side of things and understanding what is important to her. Just have to keep at working on myself and not get ahead of things and put any pressure on her. The hard part is dealing with my impatience but I have to give my wife the time and space she needs and when she is ready she will move things forward in a way that she is comfortable with.
I am sorry to hear that your wife is moving out. Hopefully that is just part of the healing process and it allows you to work things out.
Thanks for the kind words Sam, I too hope this separation helps W to sort through her thoughts and hopefully decide to reconcile at some point. Based on the many success stories I've read here it sounds like the absolute minimum time for a turnaround once separation takes place is 3 months, and more often it's in the 6-8 month range before there's a change of heart. It's going to test my patience for sure.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
I would have a hard time with it though and my thoughts are with you. I too felt like I was going to have a mental breakdown and I almost went on meds too.
The meds were a very rough road for me. I've never been on meds other than antibiotics for infections. When I started the A/D's I couldn't sleep, so they had to give me something else for that. Then the A/D's weren't effective for the anxiety, so they had to give me yet another drug for that. The cocktail of 3 different drugs caused all kinds of other problems- inability to focus at work, confusion, cloudy head, trouble sleeping, trouble waking up, etc. I finally started taking the A/D's in the morning and cut out the other two drugs and that did the trick, I stabilized and can sleep well again. Anyway, if you can make it without med's then by all means avoid it because they bring additional difficulties at a time that we don't need it!
I lost a lot of weight too, but I joined a gym and started hitting the weights pretty hard. That helps a lot with the anxiety and self-esteem and also restored my appetite. I definitely recommend doing some kind of physical activity if you're not already- lifting weights, jogging, bicycling, etc. It'll make you feel better about yourself and take your mind off of things. And your wife will notice your improving physique even if she doesn't say anything. Win-win :-)
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
I realized that I was taking a big step back and falling into my negativity and worrying to much about how my wife was behaving instead of focusing on myself and the changes I need to make. Those negative thoughts will sink the ship if they take over and I am back to working on myself. Hopefully for good this time. Just have to realize that both me and my wife will have good days and bad days.
Well said, wise words! You're going to have the negative thoughts, that's completely normal. The trick is to keep them to yourself and show your W only a positive, glowing, happy you. From Michele's tips:
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive. 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around. 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
You are right in that my wife's comments are more then baby steps or even leaps forward. What she has said is that she is willing to trust me again and does not want to get hurt. She is basically leaping off of a cliff and is trusting me to catch her. She is a great lady and I am amazingly fortunate to have this opportunity.
Congrats, and yes, you are lucky and I'm jealous :-) You're getting the chance that most of us don't, most walk-away wives just say they're done and they don't want to talk about it. You're on the right track, just keep working on your 180's, make them permanent changes to you, give your wife space and time to absorb your 180's and fill your heart with as much hope as it'll hold. Good luck!
Thanks for the kind words Sam, I too hope this separation helps W to sort through her thoughts and hopefully decide to reconcile at some point. Based on the many success stories I've read here it sounds like the absolute minimum time for a turnaround once separation takes place is 3 months, and more often it's in the 6-8 month range before there's a change of heart. It's going to test my patience for sure.
The patience is the hard part for me and I am fortunate that things are where they are right now with me and my wife. We have a long way to go to get to where we need to be. I think all of us on here would love to wave a magic wand or look in to a crystal ball. The uncertainty is so hard especially when you want something so bad. Hang in there.
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And your wife will notice your improving physique even if she doesn't say anything. Win-win :-)
LOL - Well I am back to 170 which is ideal. My appetite is back but I am more active. One of my goals is to exercise more.
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Well said, wise words! You're going to have the negative thoughts, that's completely normal. The trick is to keep them to yourself and show your W only a positive, glowing, happy you.
My negativity is the biggest thing I have had to change. I have my own list of changes and it really revolves around getting rid of those negative thoughts and being positive. I have started doing some short meditation exercises too and trying to live in the present instead of always working towards the future. Has made a big difference. If you take away the possibility of our separation I am in a better place mentally then I think I have ever been. This has been a real eye opener and I am now looking at my son who can be really negative (he is 7). Really need to work with him on that and will once I have a better grasp of where my marriage is going.
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Congrats, and yes, you are lucky and I'm jealous :-) You're getting the chance that most of us don't, most walk-away wives just say they're done and they don't want to talk about it. You're on the right track, just keep working on your 180's, make them permanent changes to you, give your wife space and time to absorb your 180's and fill your heart with as much hope as it'll hold. Good luck!
I think it is a bit of luck. The timing was right for me as after reading a lot I think I was coming out of my own little MLC. Also if a few things have been different or gone a different way it would have been harder to be where we are today. However it is mostly a testament to my wife. This last week or so has been really good. Still very little physical contact but she appears to be out of her depression and has been great to be around and is even opening up a bit about some things. Now that I am focusing on the positives and I am really seeing what a great and amazing person she is I am more in love with her then ever. Still hard to believe how I almost screwed this up. Not out of the woods yet though and as you said need to make these 180's permanent and hope she decides to stay.
Thanks again for your kind words and support. Posted on your thread to regarding MC.
Interesting couple of days. I went a checked a calendar to make sure my time line was right and it has been about eight weeks since my wife broached the subject of divorce and it has been 5 weeks since the ILYBIANILWY talk. About a month since I started DB.
The last week has been great. Spent a lot of time with my wife. We are renting and our lease is up in February and she started talking about buying a house. She got so excited when I told her to schedule a realtor for Friday she did not want to wait so she scheduled it for today. Last night she told me she was trying in regards to our relationship and still did not know what was going to happen. I felt I had no choice to tell her that until our marriage was solid it would be crazy to buy a house especially in the neighborhood we are in. It was the last thing I wanted to bring up but it would have been a financial disaster to buy an expensive house and then have to deal with it in a separation or divorce. We still spent the morning looking at houses and then we went to lunch.
At lunch we talked about how she is bored as a stay at home mom and she fills guilty about it. As the kids get older it is not fulfilling. This something we have talked a bit about over the last few weeks and it made sense and I understand her struggles there. Then she mentioned one of her best friends is going through some of the same things in her marriage (EA / unhappy) and I was shocked. Hate hearing it with this couple especially as it worries me that some of her friends are having the same issues.
The the bomb - and I think this is part of the healing process. I told her how much I have enjoyed spending time with her lately. She told me in regards to the house I was right and she can not make a decision right now about our relationship. She is really torn between staying and going. She acknowledged that I have changed but she does not understand how I could change so much so quickly. She wished she could change like that but she can not and she does not have feelings like she did before for me. That we have grown apart. She was worried that if we divorce the kids will hate her because it will be all her fault and she implied that she was upset because it seemed like I was now a "perfect husband" and yet she could still not be happy. When we talked about the house I told her we really had about 90 days to make a decision and she said that was to soon - she could not decide anything in 90 days and that really highlighted to me how far we have to go to make this marriage work. She also said that she did not feel that she could be intimate with me again physically. That the feelings were not there. She even broached the possibility of us staying together without being physically intimate. That was hard to hear and is not what I want and I hope that is just a manifestation of her current feelings and conflicts.
I am hoping that his is part of the process for her and us. It has only been about 4 weeks from my 180 so I think my hopes of just gotten up to much and that the healing process will take time. We really have so much fun together and enjoy each other so much I think I just got to excited. The good news for me is that for the old me this conversation would have sent me off the deep end in regards to negativity but I was able to stay positive which makes me believe that the 180 is really taking root.
The good news is that she still wants to spend time with me. She mentioned playing pool tonight at the end of lunch and we have plans for tomorrow already too. She has always wanted to paddle board and during lunch, after the other stuff was discussed, she joked that she can not wait to see me fall in the water and laugh. I think right now we are almost like best friends as we both really enjoy having fun together. Not want I want in the long term but all things considered not a bad place to be 8 weeks removed from a divorce talk. Just have to stay positive and stick to this. It is really hard to be objective though.
Interesting couple of days. I went a checked a calendar to make sure my time line was right and it has been about eight weeks since my wife broached the subject of divorce and it has been 5 weeks since the ILYBIANILWY talk. About a month since I started DB.
The last week has been great. Spent a lot of time with my wife. We are renting and our lease is up in February and she started talking about buying a house. She got so excited when I told her to schedule a realtor for Friday she did not want to wait so she scheduled it for today. Last night she told me she was trying in regards to our relationship and still did not know what was going to happen. I felt I had no choice to tell her that until our marriage was solid it would be crazy to buy a house especially in the neighborhood we are in. It was the last thing I wanted to bring up but it would have been a financial disaster to buy an expensive house and then have to deal with it in a separation or divorce. We still spent the morning looking at houses and then we went to lunch.
At lunch we talked about how she is bored as a stay at home mom and she fills guilty about it. As the kids get older it is not fulfilling. This something we have talked a bit about over the last few weeks and it made sense and I understand her struggles there. Then she mentioned one of her best friends is going through some of the same things in her marriage (EA / unhappy) and I was shocked. Hate hearing it with this couple especially as it worries me that some of her friends are having the same issues.
The the bomb - and I think this is part of the healing process. I told her how much I have enjoyed spending time with her lately. She told me in regards to the house I was right and she can not make a decision right now about our relationship. She is really torn between staying and going. She acknowledged that I have changed but she does not understand how I could change so much so quickly. She wished she could change like that but she can not and she does not have feelings like she did before for me. That we have grown apart. She was worried that if we divorce the kids will hate her because it will be all her fault and she implied that she was upset because it seemed like I was now a "perfect husband" and yet she could still not be happy. When we talked about the house I told her we really had about 90 days to make a decision and she said that was to soon - she could not decide anything in 90 days and that really highlighted to me how far we have to go to make this marriage work. She also said that she did not feel that she could be intimate with me again physically. That the feelings were not there. She even broached the possibility of us staying together without being physically intimate. That was hard to hear and is not what I want and I hope that is just a manifestation of her current feelings and conflicts.
I am hoping that his is part of the process for her and us. It has only been about 4 weeks from my 180 so I think my hopes of just gotten up to much and that the healing process will take time. We really have so much fun together and enjoy each other so much I think I just got to excited. The good news for me is that for the old me this conversation would have sent me off the deep end in regards to negativity but I was able to stay positive which makes me believe that the 180 is really taking root.
The good news is that she still wants to spend time with me. She mentioned playing pool tonight at the end of lunch and we have plans for tomorrow already too. She has always wanted to paddle board and during lunch, after the other stuff was discussed, she joked that she can not wait to see me fall in the water and laugh. I think right now we are almost like best friends as we both really enjoy having fun together. Not want I want in the long term but all things considered not a bad place to be 8 weeks removed from a divorce talk. Just have to stay positive and stick to this. It is really hard to be objective though.
Sam,
Did your wife's refusal and rejection and complete shutdown of sex and intimacy have any effect on you?
