Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Tomorrow is a New Day

Yes... but YOU noticed it and picked it out among other words...

Which is the point, really...

You are the one Zig, that noticed how to get out of your own way, in order to allow your H to be the best father he can be, even if it's not as you expected.

Inga, it will be up to you to figure out, as Zig did, how to loose your expectations about how your H will be a great father for your D... As you described, your D thinks your H hangs the moon...

Yet... you describe how busy your life is... OF YOUR CHOOSING... and how relaxed your H appears to be... to you... as he hangs with his buddies, drinking beer...

And your D... still thinks he hangs the moon... and might even think he hangs the moon, even if she has no light in her room to do her homework or doesn't learn how to play the piano...

Your H might have agreed to it... but until it serves him to do the things you expect of him... he will continue to be unmotivated to do them...

this is such a interesting and topical discussion for me.

thank you for your thoughts and insights. detaching from our expectations of them, is really one of the hardest things to do. indeed getting out of their way to be the best parent they can e is also scary and makes me realize again how my control issues were getting in the way of Hs parenting as well.

Yes, busting...

detaching from our expectations...

BOTH of:

+ our expectations of what they WILL (or will not) DO, based on their past, historical behaviour

and

+ our expectations of what "IS RIGHT" (because if it does not look the way we expected, it's not right... or worse... it's wrong)

+ our expectations of what "IS RIGHT" (because if it does not look the way we expected, it's not right... or worse... it's wrong)

KD this is big for me.....i was very guilty of this in the past....screaming WRONG when it was actually just DIFFERENT.

...so much to learn....

Yet... you describe how busy your life is... OF YOUR CHOOSING... and how relaxed your H appears to be... to you... as he hangs with his buddies, drinking beer...


gosh when i read that - it hit me - i was exactly that -even in my first marriage - i was so so busy and i resented sooo much both my h's ability to just be easy and relaxed all the time, hangin' out drinkin' beer. it made me crazy.

why were they not being as busy as me? why were they not being as vigilant as i was

there were things to do and places to go and they were just sitting around. this had to be fixed, that had to be fixed. it was a constant in my head. didn't they care?

I think as i have gone through my own growth during this last year - i came to realize many things about this.

the most prominent was that i was so f'ing miserable that i didn't know HOW to enjoy life and be easy as they were being. i think deep down i was fascinated and incredibly jealous of the way they could just relax..

and i also realized that that was all they wanted form me - for me to relax and just enjoy being with them - because that was all they really wanted. because when i WAS relaxed when i did let go of all my stuff, i was so much fun to be with , so easy and so lovely to have with them.

but it was a vicious circle we were caught in - the more they continued to relax the more vigilant i felt i had to be (over-compensating) and they both tried for a long long time before they gave up.

i, of course, was oblivious at the time...

and I , of course, was absolutely sure that my way was the right way... at the time...

hey hopeful. i'd back off a little with the affection. it is obviously pushing your h away at the moment. good for you on being pleasant when he called about work. i know that must have been difficult, but it probably threw him for a loop. when i was actively trying to db with h, i would think about how he was expecting me to react, and do the opposite. i know h said i nagged a lot (which was garbage, he was projecting his mother's cr@p). he almost would egg me on and try to goad me into that response, so i wouldn't give him any ammunition whatsoever. if he was being a jerk, i was sweet as pie. if i absolutely couldn't say anything pleasant, i didn't say anything at all. honestly, i would think, "i'm not giving you anything that you can use to justify your behaviour, buddy." that's not 100% why i did it, but it certainly was a part of it.

i don't know. we're currently separated, so you may want to take that advice with a grain of salt. but a lot of it is self-preservation, as well. if you have the expectation that your h will become the man you married (or wished you had), he will only hurt you when he shows you again he isn't that man. i always hate the expression "hope for the best, expect the worst" as h used it a lot as an excuse to be a pessimist, but in this situation, it's all you can do. pull back a little, be pleasant, but allow him to surprise you when he gives you glimpses of the loving h you want. you'll also know that he is doing it because HE wants to, not because it's a response to your affection or his own guilt. pull back and be patient.

i know how hard this can be. take care of yourself.

Thank your for your input. I appreciate your wisdom.



Yes, he did. I had one here 2 times and he complained about at least one aspect of the work both times. And everything I had fixed were items that I had given H a chance to do. One was my garbage disposal. It quit, I got a new one and H flat out told me he refused to install it. Same with broken door bell, mailbox, leaking faucets. When the washer drain clogs (which is every 6 months), it overflows and spews water all over the floor. We are missing part of our sheet rock. So that I don'thave to stand guard over the washer, I bought a plug in snake to clean it and he told me what a piece of crap I bought.

Sometimes as I write stuff like this, I wonder why in the hell I put up with this. In many of these situations, I've only fixed it after he wouldn't do anything for an extended period of time. What's funny is that my name is not on the deed to the house, so his property (ignore the legal aspects) is imploding around us.

I get the false expectations and try not to go there. My H is a good bit like my dad, but my dad would never have not done things for me, regardless of his relationship with my mother.

[quote=Kaffe Diem]Yet... you describe how busy your life is... OF YOUR CHOOSING...

And your D... still thinks he hangs the moon... and might even think he hangs the moon, even if she has no light in her room to do her homework or doesn't learn how to play the piano...[quote]

You are correct, as usual, my busy life is of my choosing, some of which will come to an end. This will be bad to say, but my being "stuck" with D16 when I am not at work is not my choosing. Part of why I think D16 thinks her dad hangs the moon is because he is not around and any time with him is fun and precious. However, when she is with him all day, a different story. I get to deal with all of the hard issues. When I've tried to involve him, he's told me that I am the adult and I need to figure it out, so I stopped including him. I've started asking him again and told him that I am not going to make important decisions without his input.

You all have very good thoughts for me today. So here are my thoughts/journaling for the day:

D16 and I called H this am on my way to drop her off. He was very pleasant and he sounded like he did long ago when he was out of town.

I spent the entire day at the leadership forum and did learn somethings that I can take away, even at home. I am always inspired after hearing local and national leaders, and speaking to other people that have some of the same interests I do.

I called H on my way to pick up D16 to make sure that he was back as I had to teach. He was, and I could hear some of the stressed/crappy tone of voice. So, I had a little discussion with myself and decided F him. I am not going to let his stress make me stressed. I have enough of my own to go around, thank you. So, this is my new short term goal. To try to ignore when he is crappy and not react. I think if I can focus on this, it will be very beneficial.

I did also catch myself in 2 intereactions with him when I dropped D16 off.

One of his new pals was at the airport asking about a hangar, so when I walked in (hadn't even gotten the door shut), he starts to question me about an issue the guy raised with him so that he can show what kind of big man he is and he can get things done. This is an EASY fight starter. Despite many requests, H doesn't respect my "please don't get in the politics of officical business" request. I told him that I was completely aware of the situation and that it was under control. After the person left, I told him that while I would not get into detail in front of that person, because I didn't know him, I would be happy to explain the detail of my decision. It did not escalate and H appreicate the explaination and then said he told the guy he was sure I had everything under control before I got there.

The second encounter, and you will like this KD, is that H told me that he wanted to sell one of the planes, fix the 2nd and then sell it. I would rather sell the 2nd first, and told H I was more interested in selling the second. He got slightly aggitated, and so I said, you know what, that's fine if you want to sell that one first. I co-own both, so while I feel like I should be part of the decision, I will let him make it for me. During this discussion, I also figured out why he may want to sell it. Both he and I took flight instruction in it from our friend that was killed. H tends to run and this may be part of that cycle.

Which leads me to another mantra I started to live by a few years ago and abandoned for no known purpose. Is it worth dying on the hill for? Imagine soldiers in battle dying on the hill for a cause. Is the issue I am about to argue with H about worth dying on the hill for? Or is it some non-principled issue that I can let slide? Which probably goes to the comments about expectations, and my perception of them.

As for trying to pull back my affection, that has been difficult because of the mixed signals. It is also difficult because I do not want to run him out to someone else. I already know that I do not tend to his needs and sensitivities. I've always joked that I have more testostarone than most of his friends. I am a highly driven, analytical person. I've taken leadership courses that teach women how to negotiate against some one with my communication style (At least I know how to argue with myself). And I've shown H the results of some of my profiles. Is this pretty? No. Is it who I am? Yes. And I need to learn how to cope with it and turn it off. My natural and adaptive style is to be driven. The best example is probably a snake in position to attack.

How bad is it? My profile says I have an imaginary 3 foot radius, which, unfortuately, is absolutely true. If I don't know you, I don't want you in my personal space. And please don't hug me or touch me when you talk to me. I can joke about it.

On the other hand, H is the touchy-feely social person. Our natural roles seem to be reversed. And I know this causes us problems. It goes back to turning off the leadership and who is in charge at home. As I think through all of this, I recall some of H's comments early on. Before we got married, H used to tell me that W was taking from the rib of H by God and created as a partner. After we got married, I can hear in my head "I wear the pants in this house".

As an aside, H was not up when I got home from teaching. The first night in quite a while. I am not sure of when he went to bed. I know that he was tired when he got home. I didn't say anything at all to him. Instead, I got changed and came out to my computer. I know that he was awake because he yelled at one of the dogs.

I've hit the wall for the week. I am so tired. That proverbial rope has burned through to the middle. I know that when I get very tired, my ability to control myself decreases. Thus, I know I have to be very mindful of what I do or say until I get some rest.