1. Where is the line between being kind, pleasant, funny, fun to be around and pursuing? How can I be loving and not be seen as pursuing?
If these things are what you want to do & are not tied to any outcome & expectation regarding your W's reaction then they are fine.
I would say though that you would need to be consistent with that behaviour and be the same around other family members & friends, or you could unknowingly be changing your behaviour around your W, hoping for but not expecting a reaction, which would be pursuing IMO.
Yeah, I think I agree with you on this.
I often think that I'll bump into the OM and wonder how I would behave. This hasn't happened yet for me, so my answer is hypothetical & I might react differently if / when it actually happens.
I would like think I would be the bigger man in that scenario, I shouldn't be the one who feels uncomfortable, that should lay solely on their shoulders.
In every possibilty of bumping into them W/ kids, W/ wife, alone, I know that I would not be violent and aggressive. The contact would be short as I would not want to be in their company for long. I would project myself confidently, without consideration for what they think or may feel.
This is true mate. I'm definitely going to work that into my contingency plan, whatever that may be.
Thanks for your input Bill.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I know 25 isn't convinced about the wisdom behind keeping a daily countdown for my plan of action timeline but after consideration, I think that doing so keeps everything in perspective. When I get depressed or impatient, I just look at the ridiculously short time I've been at it and how much more time I've got and I sober up again.
This is a late update for yesterday. No contact at all from either side. It got me a bit down but I think it might be the withdrawal symptoms. I got home last night and D8 was sleeping in the landlady's room. I brought her back to our room and she woke up and started crying, saying how she missed her family. I had had a few drinks and although not drunk in any way, I was very emotional and unable to control my own tears. I cried silently, making sure D8 didn't notice, but I think she did. I hugged her and we prayed for W and thanked God for all the things we have going for us, and for each other. She's a champion, that strong little 8-year-old girl. She again made me promise never to give up, and I did.
Inside, I'm tired but I know I've got to find the strength to push on for as long as it takes.
I'm getting busy these days so it makes it easier to get through the days but the down times are still brutally painful.
I'm working on it and I'm sure in a week, my PMA will be much better than it is now. I believe in my plan. I believe in my W. I believe in my family. I just have to start believing in me.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I was on a bit of a downer all day. Spent the whole day with no contact at all. It had been 4 days since I last asked her about arranging the moving day to Friday (tomorrow), to which she never replied.
Was very busy with work, though, and that is good. When I'm in the classroom, I forget my sitch for the whole lesson. The second students are out though, it comes back with a vengeance.
Finally got a text at 21:30. I was out discussing business ideas with a friend at the time.
W - Hello Arsene how are u. We meet tomorrow at 8 am for the moving at my relative's house (that is where we had stored our boxes).
I didn't require a reply so I didn't send one.
Got another text at 00:19
W - Hello Arsene, I am still at rehearsal now. I arranged for the truck for tomorrow at 8 am but I might not be able to be there that early. I'll be there later in the morning. Thanks
Again, no reply required so I didn't send one.
Got another text at 00:50
W - It's arranged to be 8:30 am tomorrow at my relative's. Please be there. Thanks
Here I thought about saying ok, but then again, it didn't really require a reply, and I was a bit upset that she would text me at 1 am to tell me she couldn't get up early to be there on time but still expected me to be at her relative's house at 8:30. I thought I'd just not reply at all and that would avoid me saying something wrong.
As I'm journaling this I realise I was probably also upset at the thought that she might be with OM rehearsing right now. I don't know.
I was tired and just decided to turn in, making sure to turn off the sound on my phone.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Well the day isn't yet over but I've got a bit of time and I don't expect anything new to occur today.
This morning I after I dropped off daughter to school and went to my meditation class, I went to W's relatives and met the moving truck. There I talked to W's relative and gathered our things, got them loaded in the truck and left. W's relatives don't know about our S, so I acted as if all was well.
With the truck I then went to the boarding house to pick up a few things we have there (we had bought the fridge and stove before I left for my country a few months ago, planning to move them with us to the city we had planned to move to) but was unable to gather all of our clothes and toys because I'd only found out about this move late last evening and never had a chance to pack things up.
Not too bad, the landlady is a friend so I told her I'd keep the room for an extra day and that was it.
At 10:30, I got a text.
W - Hello Arsene how is it going? I don't think I can make it this morning. but I will be there as soon as possible. I'm sorry.
Well, again, it didn't require a reply, so i didn't send one, and it did upset me a bit but I guess I had no reasons to be.
At 10:46, another text.
W - Daniel, I've got a gig tonight and I'm exhausted right now. Is it ok if I just rest this afternoon? Can you answer my sms please?
Well, this upset me a bit as well, for no good reasons, other than the fact that I also have a meeting tonight (of which she knows). But I was by then rushing to an interview for a job (at my D's school) so I decided I'd answer it after the meeting.
After the meeting at around 12:30, I checked my phone to find a text and a call from W.
W - Hey, what's up, is everything ok.
I decided to call her. Well, to make an already long story much shorter, the gist of our conversation was over arrangements for the evening as we both have engagements and the fact that I hadn't replied to her texts. She was quite angry even after I told her I had simply forgotten my phone at home (I know, I lied). She kept insisting that I should have replied. I stayed calm and managed to calm her down at, one point asking her why she was angry? (maybe I shouldn't have). In the end, she offered to come over in the morning with the car in order to help move the remainder of our things. She was also angry that I hadn't gotten everything ready for the truck but I explained that I had only found out about the move the night before and that I hadn't had the chance to gather everything. She told me that I was the one who had suggested this move date. I answered that this was true but that because I hadn't heard from her since I wasn't sure it was going on. She again got angry and said she had texted me and even offered to send me the said text again. I said I hadn't received it but that it didn't matter, there was no harm done.
She eventually calmed down and I told her to get some sleep and take care of herself. She thanked me and said she would.
This is the way it went and I 'm not sure what to make of it all. I don't know if I behaved well or not. Maybe i should've replied but I guess, I felt that I didn't have to jump as soon as she decides to contact me. I tried to play it cool, believe me I wanted to reply but I'm forcing myself not to, and then this. I'm not going to worry too much about it. These are just thoughts which are going through my mind. There probably is no answers.
The main thing I see here is how in the course of 15 minutes, the situation changes. Between two texts 10 minutes apart, the story changes. Is this planned? Did events really changed? Was she lying to get out of coming around? Who knows?
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I think the best thing to do here is to try not to read into what she is saying, just take it at face value.
Quote:
W - Hello Arsene how is it going? I don't think I can make it this morning. but I will be there as soon as possible. I'm sorry.
Sounds like she was running late
Quote:
W - Daniel, I've got a gig tonight and I'm exhausted right now. Is it ok if I just rest this afternoon? Can you answer my sms please?
The main thing I see here is how in the course of 15 minutes, the situation changes. Between two texts 10 minutes apart, the story changes. Is this planned? Did events really changed? Was she lying to get out of coming around? Who knows?
This is the danger when you've lost trust in your partner, your mind wanders, we try to mind read & it's always the worst case scenario we imagine.
As hard as it is, this is what you need to stop worrying about. Nobody is accountable 24hrs a day for what they do or choose to do, worrying about what they are doing won't stop whatever it is they are actually doing.
You let them own their own actions and you try to protect yourself and your own well being by GALing and finding ways to stop yourself when your mind triggers these thoughts & feelings.
This is all part of still being emotionally attached, but this will get easier in time.
Bill
Me 34 W 32 D 9 S 6 M: 9 years T: 12 Bomb: 02/11/12 EA/PA: 12/17/11 - ongoing Moved out: Oct 2012 Joint Filed for D: 2/11/13
Yeah, I know. I'm not putting too much into it. Thanks Bill.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Dang Arsense, I thought I posted novels, you might have me beat!!! I didn’t read everything so I apologize. All I know is you have an alternative plan and you had a standoff with W. Lots of yelling, talking about feelings, F bombs, yada, yada, yada... I could be wrong but whatever was going on, I don’t think it was positive.There were some hot tempers flaring, wow! Do you mind “briefly” summing it up? Take care buddy and God bless.
Well the day isn't yet over but I've got a bit of time and I don't expect anything new to occur today.
This morning I after I dropped off daughter to school and went to my meditation class, I went to W's relatives and met the moving truck. There I talked to W's relative and gathered our things, got them loaded in the truck and left. W's relatives don't know about our S, so I acted as if all was well.
With the truck I then went to the boarding house to pick up a few things we have there (we had bought the fridge and stove before I left for my country a few months ago, planning to move them with us to the city we had planned to move to) but was unable to gather all of our clothes and toys because I'd only found out about this move late last evening and never had a chance to pack things up.
Not too bad, the landlady is a friend so I told her I'd keep the room for an extra day and that was it.
At 10:30, I got a text.
W - Hello Arsene how is it going? I don't think I can make it this morning. but I will be there as soon as possible. I'm sorry. Well, again, it didn't require a reply, so i didn't send one, and it did upset me a bit but I guess I had no reasons to be.
Be honest with yourself if no one else.
You did not reply to ANY of her texts b/c you were bothered by all of them....read your posts. You didn't "like" any of her texts and you rationalized that they "did not require" an answer even when she persistently texted, which implies that she wants a response.
YOU chose the moving date and b/c SHE had not replied to your texts (hmmm, maybe she did not think it needed a reply???) SO
you made zero arrangements to pack or move? Is that accurate?
See any pattern here, any passive aggressive stuff going on?
And btw, is her stuff mostly moved already?
I don't know where your expectations are coming from. Or what they were.
But you did nothing ahead of time BECAUSE she did not reply to your chosen date/text??
Then when she makes assumptions b/c you do not reply to her
you get surprised that she makes assumptions. Geez, I'm not a shrink but it seems like a whole lot of this was preventable by simply answering the texts...
At 10:46, another text.
W - Daniel, I've got a gig tonight and I'm exhausted right now. Is it ok if I just rest this afternoon? Can you answer my sms please? Okay to be clear, are you Daniel? If not, that's weird...
Well, this upset me a bit as well, for no good reasons, other than the fact that I also have a meeting tonight (of which she knows). But I was by then rushing to an interview for a job (at my D's school) so I decided I'd answer it after the meeting. You could just text her just that you'd call after the meeting? Even after she asked that you reply to her sms? Why not? Okay we know...b/c you were upset and didn't want to show your anger, which I understand. But you were showing your anger, just passively.
After the meeting at around 12:30, I checked my phone to find a text and a call from W.
W - Hey, what's up, is everything ok.
I decided to call her. Well, to make an already long story much shorter, the gist of our conversation was over arrangements for the evening as we both have engagements and the fact that I hadn't replied to her texts. She was quite angry even after I told her I had simply forgotten my phone at home (I know, I lied). She kept insisting that I should have replied. maybe she knows you are lying. Not so good. That isn't who you want to be.
I stayed calm and managed to calm her down at, one point asking her why she was angry? (maybe I shouldn't have). In the end, she offered to come over in the morning with the car in order to help move the remainder of our things.
She was also angry that I hadn't gotten everything ready for the truck but I explained that I had only found out about the move the night before and that I hadn't had the chance to gather everything. She told me that I was the one who had suggested this move date. I answered that this was true but that because I hadn't heard from her since I wasn't sure it was going on. So, what's the REAL reason you did not do any work or planning to gather or move things? What was the goal of all that delaying and inaction?
She again got angry and said she had texted me and even offered to send me the said text again. I said I hadn't received it but that it didn't matter, there was no harm done.
She eventually calmed down and I told her to get some sleep and take care of herself. She thanked me and said she would.
This is the way it went and I 'm not sure what to make of it all. I don't know if I behaved well or not. really? I think you know.
Maybe i should've replied but I guess, I felt that I didn't have to jump as soon as she decides to contact me. Sure, you could have waited an hour or two before answering. You could have said "fyi, I Do have plans for x and y" and reminder her, which would also have avoided later issues. You chose the stone silence instead.
In fact you waited all night and into the next day to reply, right? Not until your plans were effected for Sat night did you bother to reply, correct? That's interesting to me. Think about that.
I tried to play it cool, believe me I wanted to reply but I'm forcing myself not to, and then this. then what? And do you mean your silence was the only alternative you had to losing your temper? is that what you mean to say?
I'm not going to worry too much about it. These are just thoughts which are going through my mind. There probably is no answers.
The main thing I see here is how in the course of 15 minutes, the situation changes. Between two texts 10 minutes apart, the story changes. Is this planned? Did events really changed? Was she lying to get out of coming around? Who knows? Stop obssesing and mind reading. Btw, the only person we know to have lied, is you...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Who is watching your D while the two of you are out?
My landlady (my friend's mother-in-law, who is a friend of the family). Why?
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
