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I disagree about the "fog", simply based on knowing what depression is like and knowing full well that, while one is in full blown depression, we are very aware of what is going on... the reality is that time blurs and memories are confused, during that time. So much so that some of the stuff that happened during depression, is not easily recalled after one is out of depression.

What I DO agree with is, the "fog" should not be a reason for a LBS to have hope. People who come out of depression can and do have different life perspectives, when it's over...

The "fog" is NOT, IMHO, some ploy or tactic for the WAS / MLCer to keep the LBS engaged and behaving like a puppet on a string... OTOH, reaching out by anyone who is in depression IS a request for help and support... even as the depressed person is running away...

Let's not judge people who are depressed, based on some poor, confused choices they make.

I am very passionate about mental health and people who judge others who are diagnosed or undiagnosed with mental health issues.

So to be clear with my post above, when I said that "I disagree about the "fog"", what I was meaning to say is...

The "fog" DOES exist for people who are in full blown depression. I DO know... from personal experience...

The rest of my post stands as submitted.

Kaffe,

There was no judging on my part... While I respect your opinion, I still stand by mine. Having been diagnosed with bi-polar back when I was 16, I know all too well what it is like to live with depression, as well as mania for that matter.

I have been in the lowest of lows, as well as the highest of highs and not one time since I was diagnosed did I ever do something that I was not fully aware of. Not once did I decimate those around me, nor did I cheat, nor did I lie, nor did I gaslight my spouse to the point of almost no return, nor did I steal, nor did I ignore my kids like they did not exist etc...

Regardless of whatever mental health issue one may (or may not) have, slapping a label like "the fog" on them, allows the BS to justify and make excuses for the behavior. There is no justification for the treatment that I have witnessed, either to myself or to those on these boards.

Some of this goes on for YEARS and I will never believe that one is in a "fog" for 3 or 5 or even 10 years. IMO that is utter doo-doo and once the BS can stop making excuses for the behavior of their spouse, they can begin to process and heal. Otherwise, they will continue to ride the roller-coaster and be at the mercy of their spouse and their crazy behavior... Which is what I am trying to help Mac get off of.

Fair enough, Serenity.

I have been in the fog.

I have not done anything negative, either.

I'm saying, the fog exists.

Responsibility...? It still also exists.

Just saying, the fog exists.

And I agree with you that mac should not be using the existence or lack of existence of "the fog" as a reason to hang hope on.

BTW, this ^^^^^^^ did sound a little judgemental, to me. Maybe I'm just too sensitive.

So rather than suggesting there is no fog, perhaps simply reminding Mac to focus less on his W and more on himself might have made the point just as clearly.

Ding ding rings the bell in the corner - sorry both I shouldn't have used that word (or any other).

It was purely an observation. As Michele says - note anything and so I am.

SINCE that post.……

W took over from me while I was ironing my cloths.

W helped me make our bed.

W made coffee for me.

All unbidden and with my thanks.

Not getting worked up in the least.

Friends?

And ((((both))))

Mac

sigh... ok... fine...

I understand where you are coming from Kaffe... Please understand where I am coming from as well, I am not going to stroke Mac's ego. He knows that from 3 years ago and it isn't going to change today. I will not sit here and tell him what he wants to hear, nor will I sugarcoat anything.

I learned from experience that nothing gets done when one sugarcoats something... Got to rip the band-aid off in one pull... Yes it hurts, but it is for his own good and if he has a problem with something I say, trust me, he knows how to get ahold of me and tell me if I am wrong.

K - ill clam up

Now why would you want to go and do that Mac? Kaffe and I are two different people, with two different opinions. Bottom line is we both want what is best for you, we just have a different way of delivering the message.

(((Hugs)))